dwai

 

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It leaves room for wonder - even if you don't agree.

 

"It is so" only leaves room for agreement or disagreement - and reactionary conversations tend to be stale and boring!

Good point.  

I thought it is understood that everything we share here is subjective, and based on our own experiences. I (usually) don't like to quote from scriptures and texts, and rarely like to read if others do it-- primarily because if someone has walked the walk, they can express their journey and what they saw, what they think etc in their own words. Except when we can find someone who expresses a shared path much better (then we can share videos, quotes, etc). 

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

The point is - that from the Daoist alchemical perspective - walking through this gate and discovering your True Self is a tremendous achievement - and considered the start of your spiritual journey. Whether that's misguided or not, I only have my experience of my teachers - who consider it a start. And the experience of teachers that consider it the end.

 

 

Dwai - despite how it may appear I personally really like you. I can see that you're speaking your truth and I respect that.

And I like you too. Please don't for once think that it is personal for me my friend  

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

I respect it enough not to talk in objective global truths but always refer to alchemical Daoism and its perspective - because you've got your understanding and your perspective, and it's obviously of great value to you - and you're not willing to question it. From what I can see, Walker is doing the same - clearly talking about perspectives - not 'truth'.

 

Similarly, you might want to disagree in a more respectful way - stating things not as objective truth - but as your understanding based on whatever your experience is - you might even talk about that experience. This way maybe you'll feel less derided - no one can disagree with your experience.

 There is no objective truth when it comes to this topic. It is our predilection for 'objectivity' that makes us think that there might be.

Here's a beautiful book I'm re-reading...might be fun to read for others too.

 

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

The reactive "no you poor thing - you're still caught up in an obsession with form" type stuff just to make your point is pretty derogatory...

I don't mean it that way. I'm not here to convert anyone to any particular conceptual framework. I thought you guys wanted to discuss  

59 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

 

I'd be surprised if wuwei is antithetical to reversing from post-to pre-heaven practice (isn't that how reversal is defined?). 

The challenge is with getting caught up in the mechanism instead of the objective. Let go of this obsession with post-heaven this and pre-heaven that. They are simply means to an end.

 

What does post-heaven imply? Name, form and function. What does pre-heaven imply? Prior to name, form and function. What was prior to name, form and function? We need to go back to that...the source from whence names, forms and functions arise. 

 

Do a little investigation -- Name, form and functions arise with the mind. With the mind also arise changes -- energy. So long as we're working with the thinking mind, we are working in post-heaven stuff. When we use the thinking mind (10,000 things) to trace back to it's source, we find an emptiness which is full of potentiality (One). That which knows that emptiness is our True Nature (Dao). When we rest as that which knows, nothing else needs to be done. Then whatever action arises, is wu wei.

 

 

P.S. I'm sure this will be greeted by some with howls of derision and/or indignation. 

 

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

Dwai regularly mentions that all paths lead to the same thing.

 

I'm not so sure...

 

Maybe they did at some point?

 

Let me know what you find out  

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

As highlighted in this discussion - there are clearly some major differences.

you can summit a mountain peak using different routes (usually). Differences are in the means, not the end. Different means exist for people with different qualities, different karmic fruits. 

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

I believe there are at least some convergances. Certainly with the Burmese Buddhist teacher I train with, they have a very similar process to the Daoist approach. For example 'emptiness' is considered a trap - and one must move past it. There is even a big Qi-building component (although quite different in nature to the Daoist approach). They have records of past masters disintegrating into bright light at death etc. But then his line is an old Esoteric/Tantric line.

 

Many of the Mahayana and Chan lines I've come across work quite differently - and result in a very different sort of inner development.  Not my cup of tea

See, you get it! Different means for different people based on their (individual) story templates  

 

Thanks for the support and feedback friends  

Simply be. It’s harder than it seems but is easier done than thought about  

 

 

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But the inner alchemy teachings of many schools state that in order for one's accomplishment to be "real," one must go far beyond these philosophical concepts.

these are not ‘philosophical concepts’ though they might seem like that to some. Everything is conceptual until one experiences it directly. Then the Concept becomes reality.

 

And by saying that, I’m not trying to exalt myself in anyway.
 

The whole purpose of sharing this is for those who are on the threshold of walking through this gate — don’t be deterred by naysayers and those that claim that “it is not possible if x, y or z” — that is bogus. Anyone can do it — it is not something you procure from outside — it is your Real nature, meaning it has always been yours, only you were looking here and there. 

 

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I think you're just rejecting where I took your door analogy, because I took it in a direction that did not serve your purposes. 
 

Actually I rejected what you wrote because my example is meant to serve a purpose which was done  

I don’t see the point of extending it anymore I do in flogging a dead horse. 

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What I said about the door reflects a pretty basic understanding of resolving xing and ming. 

 

If the door simply "knows that it is wood all along," this is great mind gongfu, and may lead to a sort of mental liberation.

There is intellectual knowing and there is direct experience. Surely you didn’t think I meant intellectual knowing?  

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But if the door cannot restore its living treeness and then its Daoness, it has work left to do.

 

I’ll let the treeness go. Restore dao-ness! Now that is something amazing to consider. What is “dao-ness”? Can you describe it?  

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I am not saying that is an ultimate truth, or even that I believe this is how things "really work" (I am not nearly on a level to be able to say). But I am saying this reflects basic Daoist inner alchemy teaching about the body. 

 

which is actually wonderful. That doesn’t mean much in terms of enlightenment. 

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Ok, no argument here. Except that Daoist alchemy says there must be reversal (逆)... Can your door become a tree again? Can you be a baby?

 

maybe you misunderstand what “reversal” means. I too say there must be a reversal. The mind must turn back to find its own source (reversal). When it does, nothing more is needed. 

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This forum is full of people who have had epiphanies--likely many of them quite genuine and profound--that they "have always been Dao, only Dao in specific name, form and function," if you will. 

 

And yet, here they still are, passing through aging and sickness towards death, their original qi slowly being used up until gone. And when it is gone, the body collapses, the last breath is exhaled, the final drop of yang is exhausted, and one is utterly at the mercy of karma. This is the opposite of reversal, it is going along (順). 

 

What begins must end. Even if you manage to extend it for a long time. Only way out of this cycle is to realize your True Nature. Not disappear into a cloud of smoke like puff the magic dragon. 

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I am not sure what impelled you to write that question and that instruction, but I suspect (am I wrong?) that you're suggesting a mistake intrinsic in Daoist inner alchemy teachings is that they operate from the standpoint of having a self, an ego, an I. But the inner alchemy teaching's require wu wei (non-doing), which operates when there is wu wo (no self). Thus, there is nobody who seeks immortality, and no immortality to seek, and nobody who achieves immortality.

 

Who acts then?  

If one is at a point where action happens on its own, then they are no longer “reversing” anything? They’re just going along, aren’t they? 

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Recall, also, that "immortal" is a very poor but somehow commonly accepted translation of a Chinese character written 仙, 仚, 僊, and a couple of other ways. It may also mean 真人, 神仙, 天仙, and a number of other terms. None of them really correspond all that well with the English word "immortal." They have slightly different and sometimes ambiguous or changing definitions in Chinese.

 

Key is that whatever Daoist immortality is, teachers who are "in the door" do not emphasize a flesh-and-blood body that does not die, while they do emphasize that at the level of a 仙, space, time, self, other, and indeed all distinctions are irrelevant. 

 

I don’t have any problems with that, fwiw. I too say the same thing. Only I don’t say one needs to retain the individual personality to do so.  
All it needs is to realize what we truly are. 

 

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That's an easy claim to make, but it's not something I think you are capable of commenting on. Please keep in mind you've never even read it...

 

after 13 years of teachings by my teacher using that book as the primary template, I’ve read it plenty. Question is, have you? 
 

 Why do you presume to tell me what I have or haven’t done?  

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I am aware of that--that was my point. Daoist inner alchemy teachers do not, so far as I know, talk about those Vedanta teachings. They might be right and Daoist inner alchemy might be wrong and deluded, but we are not really discussing which school of thought/practice is correct, we're discussing what xing and ming teachings actually are.

 

nowhere have i said that anyone is wrong. Errors are in the minds of the students mainly. The teachings lead to the same source. 

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You can't say "Vedanta says this and it is wrong therefore inner alchemy doesn't say that because it would be wrong."

 

I think I already answered that. I’ve got into trouble many times in the past with this. Neither is ‘wrong’. 

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I am not convinced you understand xian-hood in terms of the theories that underpin this word's usage in inner alchemy, and even less in terms of experiential realization (I know that I do not)... But... Who knows. 

 

Okay  

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Congratulations on being there. 

Thanks but I’m not alone. You are all already there, only need to reverse your gaze. 

7 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Please explain that.

Can you indicate where is the time slot, in the videos, that both had applied the yin-yang application?

We’re talking through out both the videos about what we were working on. 
When we say “ball” we mean “generating an energetic ball” (call it taiji ball). Yin and yang happens when we split the ball or compress (press). When the ball is substantial the mind is unsubstantial.

 

when we say “field” we mean the energetic field of the person. 
 

when we say “surface” we mean the energy pervading through space all around us.  
 

indirect power works via the energy “outside the body” inducing physical movement rather than from within (like Qi ‘hydraulics’). 
 

lmk if that helped  

5 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

I see you both have lots of jin in the body. I saw you two, to begin with, it was either lots of pulling or pushing real hard. Can you indicate where is the time slot, in the videos, that both had applied the yin-yang application?

We were neither pulling hard or pushing hard. It was mostly energetic.  
 

The physical strength of the recipient was being returned back using energetics. 

11 minutes ago, rideforever said:

No form simply means that the energy-mind is educated and can move on its own.  But it seems from what you say that TaiChi practitioners do not embody their energy-mind ... they see their bodies moving and say it moves on its own or with no form - which means they don't really feel their identity in the belly.  It is the same with people who say they are in no-mind, it means that they don't embody their higher mind ... what they notice is that the normal mind is not there ... so they say no-mind ... but they are unable to feel understand or embody the higher mind.

 

Taking the analogy a little further of educating the head-mind and the energy-mind.  Can you educate your head-mind at school by fighting people with it, arguing and debating ?  Well to a certain extent you can, at the very beginning ... but soon you realise that it's mostly for show and people who win are just charismatic personalities who can play the crowd.  People do not really communicate they just want to appear to win.  The greatest thinkers with highly educated head-minds were mostly self-reliant and individualistic shunning crowds ... many of them grew up isolated ... in other words at the beginning of the educaton of their head-mind they did it alone, or with careful guidance.  Using that as an analogy I would say that fighting with the energy-mind, so called push hands, is not really very good ... only useful to sanity check from time to time.  And serious practitioners should educate their energy-mind in the same way as great philosophers educated their head-mind ... they did so on their own and because they loved knowledge and wisdom and needed it to breathe.  

 

Ok 👌🏾 

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

I have been thinking today about Chen energetic principles and the difference with Yiquan.
My questions to you were about ... what more can you do ?  What useful things can you do with this energy in practice ... not necessarily for fighting.

The energy can be used in healing and also in transforming the quality of our mind -- to be able to use the energy in this way requires a clarity and purification of the mind. Development of the heart-mind and the intent. I've written about this many times before -- it is required for real spiritual work. Without clarity of the mind and opening of the spiritual heart, real spiritual work cannot happen.

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

One thing I was thinking today was that one of the most important goals is to educate the energy mind.  Just like the thinking mind in the head, the energy mind in LDT needs an education.  Chen does this nicely with each movement in the forms being a micro form with the energy making a different pattern.  Each move in the form is the energy making a particular pattern.  So by doing a form of 80 moves or so ... the energy mind has to learn to make 80 patterns, and this is very good for its development.  

That is a good preliminary practice -- in our system we'll call it the basic/foundational practice. 

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

This is why very slow Chan Si Gong is required to constantly drop from the head into the belly so that the energy-mind can do it without the head at all.  It is like developing a second brain in the belly - the head mind constantly steals it.)  So the Chen forms if done correctly are an education of the energy-mind, a very beautiful way to do things.  But it is not a general purpose energy-mind education because Chen uses a particular circular energy shape.  Chen's particular circular shape  works well with the anatomy of the human body.  Other traditions use different shapes, but should be also done in the same methodology ... from the belly-mind and not from the head ... as they are all training the energy-mind that is the purpose, at least a main purpose.  Other purposes include body mind integration, the training of mental awareness of the body, and spiritual cultivation which means the spiritual aspect of the LDT.

Yeah it is very good.  

We don't do silk reeling, but silk 'pulling'. Similar concept but different at the same time. 

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 “heavy/light/float/sink/spiral/cutting“  I feel is a lower form of practice which involves training a general shape for the energy field.  In Tai Chi forms you are emanating energy from the LDT through the entire body through a particular movement using all your limbs and torso which is much more complex then training "just be heavy".  That seems to be the difference.

 

Actually being heavy is not a good thing at all. The rule of 4 oz moves 1000 lbs is very much a requisite condition of taijiquan. The only way to do it correctly is using energetic way.  

 

Forms are great -- LDT is great, but are a preliminary gate to enter. Taijiquan process goes this way (how I've been taught) -- We go from no form (novice) to form (intermediate) to no form (mastery). In the first case, the novice knows nothing and has 'no form'. S/he learns the forms and practices, works on training the LDT, becomes sensitive to qi/jin etc (form). After the forms have been internalized and the energies therein assimilated, no form is required anymore. Wardoff is not a form but an expression of energy. Similarly rollback, press, split etc etc. One should be able to roll back with a thumb, wardoff with a single finger, etc etc. 

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Another thought is that beating people and push hands is not a very good way to prove that your energy-mind is developed, but it is useful as sanity check from time to time.

To train the energy-mind whilst the head-mind is constantly interfering in this world is very challenging.

Those are some views.

 

Ah I see... 

 

Push hands is a great tool to develop taijiquan skills. Without push hands, you can't develop any serious skill.

 

If you can't do it with another person on the other side, you've only deluded yourself into thinking your energy-mind is developed (imho). Many people think they've attained "mastery" in their forms -- forms look amazing...beautiful, powerful. Then put another person on the other side of those very forms, and out of the window it all goes. Body becomes tense, adrenaline rushes into the blood stream and all grace, all beauty vanishes into thin air. 

12 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Have you tried to do drills without physical contact, I would be interested in your results. 
 

Yes we have. It works. Maybe next time my friends and I get together,  I’ll post a video on this. I find it a bit harder to do, in that it usually leaves me with a bit of a headache. My master says it’s because we’re using our own jin for it instead of using the energy that pervades everything. 

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Also in relation to normal drills can you make any shape you want ?  Sphere or knife or whatever ?  What about is you transmit alchemising energy to somebody else ?  Or the spirit ?

Yes on shapes but really it is not about ‘fighting’, more about exploration of energetics for us. 
 

WRT tranmission - yes. I would call it jin transmission — in the sense, send a feeling/information to the ‘other’ person. That is how jin is made to be “heavy/light/float/sink/spiral/cutting“ etc. It literally is making an intention, such as, “I’m going to make my opponent float”, evoke the feeling of floating in your heart and sending it to the other person. It sounds sequential but is instantaneous — Intend-Evoke-Send.

 

 

3 hours ago, ReturnDragon said:

Hi, dwai
Do you consider what you two are doing is fajin?

Some of it. Mainly we’re practicing drills of using a Qi ball or the Qi field (or two - one yin and one yang). The other person just happens to be attached, and so moves. It is could be called ‘using indirect power’. 

My bro and I met after many days to play taijiquan drills. We worked with many things but recorded a small part of our session. Our videos are unedited and so be warned of some ‘sacre bleu’ moments. 
 

 

Feel free to comment or ask questions. 

My first mantra initiation happened when I had my Upanayanam (thread ceremony which seems the individual twice-born(Dvija) - first in human form and then in knowledge).

 

Fast forward a few years, and while going through a really rough patch for several months in a row,  in desperation I prayed,  “Lord, if you are real...if there is a power out there who can help me, please help me find a way to overcome these challenges that life is throwing at me nonstop!”.

 

A yogi visited me in my dream and initiated me to a powerful and yet very common Hindu mantra. Told me how to chant it. I started chanting it, and it became such an integral part of my practice that I would often find myself chanting in dreams, in my sleep etc. 

 

During that period the personality was being tormented in the waking realm due to lack of employment. Within two weeks of starting my practice I got a job I didn’t t even apply for. A good one. But something that had been eluding me for 8-9 months. 
 

Around the same time I was getting  dream  ‘visitations’ by a being(s) who would come to me in the form of close family members and torment me. I somehow knew how to vanquish/banish these demons using the sword finger and the mantra. I’ve used this mantra many times over the years to protect myself and my family and friends. 
 

So yes, mantras are real. Deities are real and powerful. And if we empty our cups, they can help us and guide us.  

 

Not too much, not too little. Everything must be in moderation. 
 

Also diet should be defined by our constituent energetic makeup. Balance is the key. 

This was shared by my friend who is a disciple of Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche. The similarity to Advaita Vedanta is so clear.  

 

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DZONGSAR KHYENTSE CHOKYI LODRO (1893 - 1963)

Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche, my Vajrāyana  Guru, is a reincarnation of Dzongsar Khyentse Chokyi Lodro.
__________________________________________

Advice on Recognizing the Nature of Mind
by Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö

What we call mind is that which thinks endlessly of everything under the sun. When investigating its essence to determine the true nature, we examine each momentary thought that originates, remains and departs. We inquire where the arising might be and look into the place or source of origination. We investigate the place of remaining and nature of what remains, and, for the departure, the nature of what ceases and its place of cessation. Each time we ask what these are like in essence. And through this, we realize that they lack even so much as an atom’s worth of true reality. Yet in spite of this unreality, there is still something which knows, or is aware of, good and bad, and which is present unceasingly. By allowing this to settle by itself, without altering it or fabricating it in any way through inviting or following thoughts, we can naturally experience a state that is beyond all expression and is the inseparability of clarity, awareness and emptiness. To sustain the continuity of this is what we call looking into the essence of mind.

Still, it is very important to purify obscurations as a preliminary, to pray to the guru with deep devotion, and to exert oneself in receiving empowerment. When we understand this essence of mind well, we will not have so much attachment and aversion towards friends and enemies or hope or fear concerning pleasure and pain. This is difficult to realize, no matter who we might be.

(Chökyi Lodrö offered this merely to avoid turning down a request.)

Translated by Adam Pearcey, 2020.

Courtesy Lotsawa House.

 

Just now, Pilgrim said:

Ohhh. Thank you I am very much looking forward to that!

 

One of the things that is really great about this book is the pace of it, just when I was thinking it was slowing down and loosing momentum you stomped on the accelerator. Caught myself laughing a few times over that and thinking oh Gawd hah! 

 

As I feared the very thing I was afraid of with your book came to pass it ended far too soon even though I stretched it out reading and absorbing and savoring the pages.

 

When I got to the end it was like having to say goodbye to some new good friends I had made while reading the story.  

 

Now I am eager to read the next book and think wow, what a monumental challenge you have created for yourself to match up to the first book.

 

To those reading this I want to point out there are many spiritual truths that are made very clear by Dwai in this book in a very interesting story. There are even effective practices given,  this book is truly worth the time and the money, without a doubt.

2 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Just finished the First book. In a word excellent!

 

Advice: Get cracking on the Audio Book.

 

Know you are busy on the next book looking forward to it!

Thanks my friend! I actually have started on the audiobook. Decided to do it myself. I'll send you a sample when I got it up to some decent quality.  

Already did the raw cut of first 5 chapters  

3 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

You seem to be a man of the morning dear dwai. There is something I wish I can do in my life, experience dawn at the canopy of a tropical old-growth forest. This something I should not do before 50 and I hope this is not going to be a business before that time.

Sorry I'm a bit off.

I wasn't much of a morning person but I seem to wake up by 3:30 AM quite frequently  

3 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

I wish you a very good year, taiji pal !

And you too my friend  

 

The Sun never fails to amaze, inspire and awe us — the giver of life, light and warmth. And like the outer Sun, the inner sun — Atman, the Self is amazing — without it, there would be no Sun, Earth or in-fact the Entire Universe.

http://www.kamakoti.org/shlokas/#gsc.tab=0

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PRATAH- SAMARANA - STOTRAM (A Morning Prayer)
This is a prayer composed by Sri Adi Shankaracharya consisting of three stanzas in which the mind (manas) speech (vak), and body (kaya) of the individual are sought to be dedicated to the supreme Spirit.

The first thoughts, words and actions of everyday exert a great influence on the life of the individual. If they are consecrated and made divine, they will pave the way for spiritual illumination. The prayer at dawn is profoundly significant in that the dawn is the outer symbol of the inner awakening.

In these stanzas, Shañkara sets forth also the quintessence of Advaita-Vedánta. The ultimate Reality is Saccidánanda (existence-consciousness-bliss). It is turèya, that which is the reality of the three states of experience and is beyond them. These expressions, however, ought not to be taken literally as descriptive or definitive of Reality. Hence it is that Brahman is indicated by the negative way, as `not this', `not this'. Brahman eludes categorisation; it is not within the limits of ideas and words. The so-called individual soul is non-different from it. The soul is not to be confused with the body mind complex. The elements that constitute the world are but illusory appearances on the basic Reality, even as a shake, a garland, etc., are projections on a rope. As the sun of wisdom rises, these illusions disappear, and the goal of life is reached.

प्रातः स्मरामि हृदि संस्फुरदात्मतत्त्वं
सच्चित्सुखं परमहंसगतिं तुरीयम् ।
यत्स्वप्नजागरसुषुप्तिमवैति नित्यं
तद्ब्रह्म निष्कलमहं न च भूतसङ्घः ॥१॥

Prátah smarámi hrudi samsphuradátmatattvam
saccitsukham paramahamsagatim turèyam
yatsvapna jágarasussuptamavaiti nityam
tadbrahma niskalamaham na cha bhutasañgha.

At dawn I remember the Reality which is the Self, shining brilliantly in the heart, existence-consciousness-happiness, the goal of Paramahamsasannyasins (sages), the Fourth; That which knows always the states of dream, waking and deep-sleep, that Brahman which is partless I am, not the cluster of elements.

प्रातर्भजामि मनसा वचसामगम्यं
वाचो विभान्ति निखिला यदनुग्रहेण ।
यन्नेतिनेतिवचनैर्निगमा अवोचं_
स्तं देवदेवमजमच्युतमाहुरग्र्यम् ॥२॥

Pratarbhajámi manasá vacasámagamyam
vacho vibhánti nikhilá yadanugrahena
yanneti neti vacanair nigamá avocam-
stam devadevamajam achyutam áhur agryam.

At dawn I sing the praise of That which is unattainable by mind and speech, but by the grace of which all words shine. That which the scriptures declares through the words `not this', `not this'- That God of gods, they say, is unborn and un-changing.

प्रातर्नमामि तमसः परमर्कवर्णं
पूर्णं सनातनपदं पुरुषोत्तमाख्यम् ।
यस्मिन्निदं जगदशेषमशेषमूर्तौ
रज्ज्वां भुजङ्गम इव प्रतिभासितं वै ॥३॥

Prátarnamami tamasah paramarkavarnam
pürnam sanátanapadam purushottamaakhyam
yasminnidam jagadaseshamaseshamurtau
rajjvaam bhujamgama iva pratibhasitam vai.

At dawn I bow to that which is called the Highest Self which is beyond darkness, of the hue of the Sun the ancient goal which is the plenum - That, the residuless form (i.e. the whole) in which the entire universe is made manifest like a serpent in a rope.

श्लोकत्रयमिदं पुण्यं लोकत्रयविभूषणम् ।
प्रातःकाले पठेद्यस्तु स गच्छेत्परमं पदम् ॥४॥

Slokatrayamidam punyam lokatrayavibhusanam
pratahkale pathedyastu sa gacchetparamam padam.

This meritorious triad of verses, the ornament of the three words - he who reads at the time of dawn goes to the supreme goals.

This is the pahala-sruti (description of the fruit) of this Vedantic prayer. It is an eulogy of the prayer whose purpose is to consecrate the thoughts, words, and deeds of the individual so that the final goal may eventually be gained.

 

 

There is something to be said about ritualistic cleansing etc. Many orthodox Hindus don’t eat outside their homes — only eat home cooked meals and so on. There are reasons for that — mainly around picking up karmic baggage from those that serve them/cook the food etc. Most people don’t have the ability to look into the causal plane — so rules get formulated that ‘no one should break this rule, for fear of “spiritual contamination”’. 
 

Rituals usually get solidified like that.
 

On a lighter note — 

 

Someone shared a story with me recently. At a border town in India, there was a military ritual of two guards standing watch near a bench in a specific area. No one seemed to know what the purpose was.

 

One day someone decided to figure out when this ‘ritual’ started. It seems it did in 1971, when the then CO of the base established the rule. That CO then went on the become a brigadier general in the army and finally retire. So at the ripe age of 90, when approached by the army officer asking specifically  about that ritual, he scratched his head and after thinking it over for a while, he exclaimed, “What! The paint on that bench has still not dried!?!” 
😂

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40 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi dwai,

 

Why are you wasting your breathes?

 

Fallacies are not worth to be mentioned.

 

- Anand

 Just in mood to entertain my friends here at TDB 

1 hour ago, ReturnDragon said:

Hi dwai
Hypothetically, you are telling me that normal people are breathing properly; and the good taiji or qigong people are not. Then, the good taiji or qigong people are not good.

There’s nothing hypothetical about it. Good taiji and qigong people don’t breath as much. Nor do they need to. Good yogis too are like that. 
 

when I was doing a specific type of yoga practice, the pranayama was like this — inhale for 45 seconds, hold for 90 seconds and exhale for 180 seconds. Some would do it faster — inhale for 30, hold sixty and exhale 120. More beginners would inhale 15, hold 30, exhale 60. 
 

 

 

When we do set of 9 cycles of ZZ, we breath in and out 3-4 times (even 1-2 times) in a minute - in this case equal length. This needs to happen without straining. Most can’t do it because of the tension they hold in their body. 

1 hour ago, ReturnDragon said:

Yes, I have heard of the term “turtle breathing”. Turtle can take one breath and stay under water for 8 full minutes before taken another one.
 

There you go. Does that mean more/faster breathing or slower and more relaxed breathing?