dwai

11 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

I think this is a topic we could explore further as perhaps we have different understandings of what non-seperate means and it's implications. Perhaps another thread?

I've got plenty of threads in the Hindu sub-forum on this subject. If I go into why here, it will end up becoming another bone of contention  

11 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

I don't like the implications I see in this statement, as I've seen such commentary used to dismiss and disregard both the individual it's addressed to, and the personal responsibility of the party issuing such statements. 

 

This is also a subject which can have great depth - which imo is worth (personal and interpersonal) exploration. 

 

I certainly didn't mean it to dismiss and disregard anything. But don't you think the onus of how we feel about something is primarily on us? Feeling is a state of mind, right? We can choose to react to something, or not. 

Depending on 'others' to determine how we feel seems self-disempowering to me. Especially in situations where we have control - for e.g. on a board like this -- which gives us ability to simply ignore someone who's trolling us. 

But also generally in life, if we depend on others for how we feel about ourselves, we might end up with a very chaotic quality of life. I'll be happy to explore this topic on a separate thread if you want to start one  

5 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

Do you think part of the subconscious inner dynamic may be a sort of "Power of Hercules" thing in which the individual is the "hero" of his/her own story, needing monsters to fight in order to prove their own worth/ worthiness? 

 

Its not for me to say what it is -- I think it varies from person to person, depending on their individual journey and story.

What I've seen is that, it is simply a failure to recognize that me and the 'other' are not separate in essence (though the body-mind certainly is or appears to be separate).

Yeah I know...the previous sentence can send certain individuals into bouts of apoplectic rage...but they need to investigate -- why is it that the words of some random stranger on the internet is capable of creating such extreme reactions in them?

I think people seek energetic reactions from other people -- there certainly is exchange of emotions/feelings in our social interactions. What are those if not energy patterns being evoked, thereby causing thoughts, emotions and feelings? 

That's why trolls troll. They get energy out of the reaction of their victims. They get a high from being able to elicit reactions, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet -- perhaps because their personal lives are not very pleasant, or eventful. Maybe they are sad little individuals sitting in their mom's basements trying to muster up enough courage to go out and face the world. Erroneously they think that some day, after they've acquired enough 'power' through their trolling activities, they can step out and face the real world without fear. 

PS. -- so that its not mistaken as such, I had neither Earl nor Gendao in mind when I was referring to trolls  

it is very clear to those with discernment, who those trolls are  

I know that it might feel good to get angry, retaliate and hit back at those who seem to be baiting us. But maybe we need to also look inward, and check whether there is something in any particular interaction that triggers our ego to react in a massive way.

Not taking sides here...since many of us come here for spiritual camaraderie, maybe we should practice being patient and compassionate and practice loving-kindness? And then, if someone is hell-bent of annoying you, simply put them on your ignore list (I've got a few specimens on said list  )...problem solved...

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I'm reminded of a sign that hangs on the door of a dive bar that I pass on my way to our local noodle shop.

 

When they open the door to the bar, the sign can be read as you walk by:

 

No man is entirely useless.

Even a bad man is useful as a good example

of how not to be.

 

I smile and thank them silently for the reminder that I'm not entirely useless...

Then go devour a bowl of spicy noodles with a frosty cold beer.

I'm game for the noodles...though I prefer Beijing style Noodle-soups. I'll pass on the cold beer for a plain club soda with a wedge of lime  

23 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

HA!  Hands up how many here watched a one and a half hour video .

 

 

I dont respond to arguments that rely on watching hours long videos  or evn 1/2 hour.  I am more into talking to people and giving references and if a video is used , talk about a point and cite the time .

 

otherwise its as silly as me saying ; 'Everything I said is affirmed in these three books, you go read them ;

 

(UNESCO publication)

 

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000094466

 

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Roots-Hinduism-Early-Aryans-Civilization/dp/0190226927

 

 

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780873655453

 

But this is 'stained ' by  being   academic  relying on archaeology, linguistics, history and genetics , all combined together and is not some youtube nor the rantings of some guru .

 

Check out the validity of the authors

I have spent many years studying this subject.  

it is clear that you are incapable of (and unwilling to) rebut the scientific evidence provided in the video. If your mind is so closed, what is the point of posting polemics? I’m not interested in wasting my time on such activities — and you go on my ignore list.  

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Whereas in India , no such thing ever  happened  and still today , Indian religious scripture has no effect on their understanding of history and they do not have unscientific insertion of  religious scriptural creation myth  or influence on 'scientific understanding ' .

 

Actually Indian history is very well documented -- only not in the way westerners can recognize. Did you actually even watch the video?

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

Thats right ..... evolutionists, geologists and the like still  affirm that the world began in  5.500 bc.

 

The problem is geologists and evolutionists don't seem to be getting across to historians who wrote about ancient India.  

Can you dispute the methodology or claims made in the video? That's what happens when people don't have substantive arguments to counter a position -- they'll resort to polemics, sort of like what you're doing.  

And upon initial recognition of the truth,  one may give in to wave after wave of paroxysmal laughter  

1 hour ago, alchemystical said:

As linked by @dwai in a previous thread that appears to have ascended:

That was very strange -- "lets start with a false assumption and not entertain any other data" -- and when that was challenged, delete the thread!  

1 hour ago, alchemystical said:

Preface: No limits on this discussion, all viewpoints welcome, no dogma is subscribed to by me.

 

Can't say I know much about the Vedic culture as I'm just learning but a quick glance through the years and some points stand out which I'd like to discuss with the more knowledgeable members on board:

 

• How in the heck did people who apparently had a very rudimentary culture in terms of buildings etc.. have things that sound like war planes/some kind of flight craft equipped with weapons that seem either nuclear or laser based. Its all very Star Wars and the Vader/Veda thing doesn't escape me either.

 

From what I've read they were powered by a different, non electrical power source that may have used mercury and a totally different view of physics/knowledge of the basis of reality. Obviously this has been seized upon by ancient alien people and totally mangled on top of the already shaky translations of Sanskrit (which is apparently supposed to be one of the most complex, in depth languages ever as its packed with nuance and subtlety which evades translation).

 

Its quite perplexing for many that our ancestors in the past were more advanced than us in the present but things like the Pyramids in Egypt prove that man of the past was far more resourceful than we are now. Plus there is the whole "Where did the Vedics come from angle" which I'd welcome some more insight on.

 

One thing I do firmly believe is that we're taught a load of mistruths and flat out lies when it comes to this culture and its significance for whatever reason but I do find it very fascinating. Loads of things I wonder including:

 

• What were their origins?
• Where did they come from?
• Whats the deal with the way their gods/goddesses look?
• Was their culture local or global like Christianity is now?
• How did they amass such insight without technology?
• Why did they live such seemingly basic lives?

 

I could continue on... Your insight is welcomed.

 

Human history is certainly older than what is taught today. The biggest problem with studying history is the unscientific insertion of the Biblical creation myth, which messed up study of the chronology of civilizations and still passes off as 'gospel truth' today in the academic circles.

On 8/12/2017 at 1:49 PM, Taomeow said:

@ dwai:  the Himalayas...  well, that's going to be quite a trip! 

It was! Found the perfect place for a small cabin...overlooking the greater Himalayan ranges. It is located in the Kasar Devi Ridge in Middle Himalayas -- the region is called Devabhumi -- Land of the Gods -- potent with spiritual power, vibrating and transcendent.  

Who knows...maybe someday...I'll find myself there...

*bump* -- https://bit.ly/36Zokt8

The giveaway is still open -- 100 copies of my book up for grabs in ebook format.

47 minutes ago, gatito said:

A better translation is benevolent indifference.

 

That’s an interesting combination. How about using “unperturbed” or “undisturbed” ? 
 

OTOH, Wikipedia has a good explanation of the term —

42 minutes ago, old3bob said:

(ok, then one might wonder why the modern translator did not use the word detachment?  As for the Maharishi quote imo more detail wouldn't hurt being that it is so general)

 

Good question. I'm not sure why. I think the problem with translating sanskrit to English is that there are a lot of untranslatable words. No one single english word can explain what vairāgya means. 

WRT Ramana Maharshi's statement -- it is advice for the seeker to stay unperturbed by whatever happens in life. Neither get attached to anything (Let what goes go), nor avoid anything (let what comes come). By being this way, the seeker develops 'vairāgya'  (which can loosely be translated to detachment or indifference even). 

The problem with chronically adversarial personalities is that they will not actually take the time to understand the perspective they are knocking, and instead continue to make noise. Here's a little throwaway article from me to such individuals -- This is one of the methods employed by Advaita Vedantins to help the seeker realize the truth. 

May you grow up and realize your True Nature

https://www.medhajournal.com/close-encounters-of-the-fourth-kind

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

... in the first sentence above where it advocates "indifference" I have some reservations about that or at least with that word usage and its general meaning.   If it means indifference to the temptations of worldly things and being lost in identification with same as later implied then fine...anyway does this upanishad from a long ago time period and culture assume that that is how the reader should or does interpret the first sentence?  (for no spiritual or most any kind of practice can succeed through indifference in the general meaning of the word)

 

I also have reservations with the words,  "separate from all" near the end of this quote.  If "separate from all" means unbound by and thus transcendent to all although also witness of all then fine...adding that per non-duality there can really be no separate from per-se, or no separation between Siva and Shakti and all of Shakti's permutations as mentioned earlier in this upanishad as, "Self residing in all forms". 

 

thus words and their meanings are important, more so since every one of us may read something slightly or very different into them.

 

Comments?

WRT indifference -- It is referring to the condition of detachment, where one doesn't experience 'rāga' or 'dvésha', i.e., craving or aversion for anything. This is the condition which Ramana Maharshi describes in his counsel - "let what comes come, let what goes go". 

WRT "Separate from all" is an initial step required to shift the identification from the states that appear as waker, dreamer and deep sleeper, to the underlying awareness in which these states arise and fall. As maturity of realization develops, the seeker points out, just like you did - nothing is apart from you, the real Self. 

Space and time don't really matter when we realize the Oneness underlying all manifestation. We can share presence with each other, uplift those who are stuck in more worldly realms if necessary -- sometimes just to give them a taste of what this Oneness can bring. 

Some of those who have experienced the shared presence with an illuminated person might stay that way for a long time. Some others might get scared...don't be afraid. Just open your heart and your mind. It is your own Self that is shining forth through those that you think are "others".   

When it first happened to me, my mind was going, "No way...this can't really be happening...am I dreaming?!?"

And then it became a natural way to be...realization triggered realization...

This one upanishad is adequate for spiritual awakening. May you awaken right now  

It’s very ‘cool’ to want exotic and mystical experiences. I’ve had many. But these are still experiences. When you realize who you truly are, reality stands revealed as it is — we can find the infinite and self-luminous One (Tadekam) in and shining forth through the infinite phenomena that make up the universe itself. 

1 hour ago, neti neti said:

 

They may merely have replaced a rusty set of handcuffs for some golden ones.

 

And yet, they remain free to seek as if needing to be convinced.

 

 

 

Without being well, one would never know the agony of sickness. Without sickness, one would never know the relief of well-being.

 

There are those grateful enough to pay both the dis-ease and its healing proper hommage.

 

 

 

And yet, even divine revelation will not teach one how to be a human.

Differences are a result of karma and constitution that manifests in different names and forms. One might choose to remain in a mountain cave, another amidst the hustle and bustle of a city. 
 

The veracity of one’s realization is first manifest in the life of the body-mind unit. 
 

The thought “I am in bondage” and the thought “I am liberated”, the one who knows them both to be just appearances in the mind, is the One who is ever free.  

It’s true that this kind of “riddle-talk” can drive the materialist crazy. 🤪

And trigger waves of beatitude in some others. 
 

And yet, the One who understands is present in all — the materialist, the alchemist, the idealist. 😇

8 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Can I purchase the paperback from your site directly?

I may have just missed it when perusing.

 

(Any more, I prefer to avoid amazon completely.)

I have author copies I can send if you give me your postal address.  

9 hours ago, Nintendao said:

I love it. The way you've interleaved some sound educations with a uniquely gripping tale. I read part one aloud to my mum this weekend, and she's immediately bonkers for it, sending compliments for your elegantly vivid style. After digesting a bit more I'll surely post in the product reviews. Kudos!

🙏🏾 My regards to you and your mother. I’m glad you both are enjoying the book. 😍

*bump* don’t forget — my giveaway starts today, 

15 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I'm probably somewhere between 3 and 5 here.

The “dirty” or “clean” has as much to do with intention as it does with what we’ve been feeding the mind. 
 

If the intention is sincere and pure, half the battle is won. Success is only a matter of time and effort. If the intention is insincere and with the sole objective of putting someone or someone’s tradition down, the end result is that of a dirty pot. 

11 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Interesting. Reminds me of Om Namo Narayanaya, a mantra stolen by a student because it would bring peace and end conflict, which was a secret test of character too, as the teacher glowingly approved of his actions and is also chanted when someone dies.

 

Another aspect of that mantra is that it summons teachers to the chanter if they are ready to learn.

 

Good show, old friend.

The Swami gives an interesting example of how different people approach knowledge/a teacher. 
 

1. An upside down pot — this pot is closed effective, and you can’t fill it with water. 
2. A full pot — it is already full, no matter what you put in it, will flow out 
3. a leaky pot — whatever you put into it, leaks out.
4. a dirty pot - the inside of the pot is dirty, even the purest water you put into it will become dirty. 
5. an empty pot - this is a clean, empty, non-leaky pot which is set up in the right direction — so it can receive the water.

Our minds are like one of these many types of pots. If you want to learn something, be an empty pot. 
 

It is easy to criticize a teacher or a tradition when you don’t agree with it. But in order to properly critique it, you have to understand what and why it teaches something in a certain way. 

I find anonymous internet handles sniping at genuine teachers and traditions to be worthy of contempt, because there is nothing more cowardly than that. Such people, to be taken seriously,  should put their money where their mouth is, not hide behind internet handles - share their credentials, lineage and first prove their caliber.
 

Otherwise they don’t deserve anymore attention or response than a summary dismissal. 

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

So in essence, self-study and rational analysis for the Self in order to understand. Not bad.
 

Gleaning that it is akin to zen koans for people just watching a YouTube video, then it is a different experience compared to you personally interacting with him. How was that attending his retreats and your personal interaction? I think that is valuable and can probably answer a lot more than just taking apart what appears in a picture or from a video.

 

I haven’t had much time with my Vedic teacher Thomas Ashley-Farrand or his successor, his wife, outside of online communication, but his material was easy for me without a background in Vedic teachings and in turn allowed me to appreciate the source when I got to the Upanishads and Bhagavad-Gita.
 

So usually, while I can criticize (and I tend to be more critical when someone pissed me off, haha), the real test is understanding based on what one writes or speaks, skill in what they demonstrate in form, and actual power in display of their accomplishments from a martial perspective. For spiritual comparison, it is their writing, their acts and what they’ve accomplished, and how they treat you, people of status, people who can give them money, the homeless, the critics, and service workers.

 

So when you’re able to and comfortable sharing your personal experiences with him, please do let us know.

Oh I’m comfortable sharing my experience - he is a loving, Kind, gentle and brilliant exemplar of the Truth. What else does one require? 

The order he belongs to does selfless service wherever they go. He used to train novice monks of that order - Hence he has the same spirit of selfless service. Can you imagine how boring and monotonous it must be for a teacher to travel constantly, teaching the same subject over and over again? Yet, I’ve never once seen him be tired or exasperated — I’ve seen him in person many times. Always with loving kindness, a sweet sense of humor and the kind of clarity that makes you go “wow!” each time you hear his words (no matter in person or on a video or a podcast). 
 

Remember, these are profound spiritual truths, and they have the power of absolute reality behind them — the medium is irrelevant. Only, the clarity of the mind listening to the teaching matters. 
 

The truth he teaches won’t give one psychic powers, or the ability to bend the laws of nature. He only points to the true nature of each and every individual who thinks they are separate beings in a materialistic universe. And that true nature is The pure nondual consciousness, which manifests as the universe and its members. Like waves of an ocean are made of water. Knowing this, takes one beyond craving and avoiding — Which is the root of suffering. By transcending what we call rāga-dvésha (like-dislike/craving-avoiding), we can transcend suffering. What is more liberating than that?
 

This teaching is something that will attract the Individual when the time is right. For some it might take a few more roundabouts