Baguakid

I've often heard of ppl suggesting ppl should study with a teacher, not a book but how many Taoist (cultivating not religion) are around in the US. I don't know of any other than Sher K. Lew. Can anyone offer a true taoist with which to train in the US? Thanks,

Well, I can say this. The "religion" which Mak_Tin_Si practices has no interest in me based on his writings and arrogance. Taoist practices in my mind revolve around internal alchemy, that's it. No talismans, no rituals, no sorcery, blah blah. An energetic, spirutal practice.

Great Stuff Rasayana!!! Please keep it coming. Thanks

ha ha ha ... you really are lost aren't you?

Wait, so he had a seminar for 18 Lohans and for the first 8 he did 8 Brocades? Sounds like a mis-representation to me. I'm happy you liked the seminar but based on what you have said I definately would have been upset about this.

No, you appear to roll religious rituals into the tao so that's what put me off with the question.

I'll agree with Ya Mu here in his description of Spontaneous qigong. I'm not a big fan of this exercise because it seem like nilly willy kind of exercise. I think it is necessary to be under a Master's guidance because I have heard this can be a dangerous exercise. I prefer standing exercises, Zhan Zhuang, which I gotten the most out of.

It appears everyone has their own idea of what Tao is so this is a loaded question.

Good post Gold, especially: Why not make a "Religious Taoism" subforum for those interested in this type of Taoist activities?

Well, if it does sound like organized religion then it's perfectly fine to let him know that. What's the problem? What is being an ass about that? Heck, he may thank us later for pointing it out to him. I'll say this, I'm not going to be rude to someone unless they are overly rude to me but also, I'm not going to tip-toe around someone who should be an adult and can take criticism.

lostmonk, Or He needs to try to understand our culture and develop a 'thicker skin'. This is a forum which things can be debated and discussed openly which is different than in person so ppl can respond in a more brash way. I'm not saying it's the best but it does have some advantages. It means the response will be looked at from all sides and be taken apart left and right. If it holds up, great. If not, there's a problem. Outside of a forum ppl's ideas are not usually challanged in this way. I think it's good for all sides outside of any idiots who just post garbage responses. So, anyone who brings something to the table here needs to be ready for a response that's going to be different from an unchallenged response that may normally happen face to face. I remember an instance in a different forum (martial arts) where this guy had all the answers in his own mind. After posting several days his ideas were taken apart left and right and they didn't hold up. So, he needed to go back and re-evaluate his stuff. In the real world if he went out with that stuff he would have a much harder lesson.

lostmonk, You are right it's not totally a Chinese thing but mostly. I can say I don't get this from most of my teachers. My Zhan Zhuang, my Bagua Zhang, my Neigong teacher all talked straight with me (who are all Chinese btw). And no, the answer had nothing to do with what he was talking about (the meditation teacher). I just think some ppl love to "try" to talk like a Philosopher. Like I said, it was a rant. And no, I"m not a stupid westerner who thinks everything should be given to me 5 minutes ago. This has been building up for over 20 years of patiently looking for answers.

Let me add something I've experienced and no offence to Mak_Tin_Si or any other Chinese on this board but it seems to me that some of the Masters I've been around are usually full of themselves, love- I mean LOVE to talk in circles, and have no problem wasting people's time with their BS. I mean, when you go to a Math class you get math, straight and clear, go to a cooking class and their it is right in front of you. Go to a Qigong class (I have yet to go to a Taoist Class) and it boggles the mind how someone can love to hear the sound of their voices. I was in a meditation class and I asked the teacher a question. He talked for 25 minutes about the sun, the moon, the stars and countless things that had nothing to do with the question and when done he asked if I answered the question and I said not yet, then in one sentence he answered the question directly. Now I love China, Chinese qigong, Chinese Martial arts, and Chinese culture. I've spent the last 25 years surrounding myself with it. Quit my job and moved to China for nearly 2 years and my wife is Chinese. But I'll never understand the need to 'talk around' a subject and waste time. Especially when money is given for that time. Just some thoughts, sorry for the rant.

yeah, I pretty much can't stand any religion any more. I think that's why many are attracted to taoist thought. I'm pretty much in agreement with picnic here. If a Taoist master wants me to practice some relgious activities I'll have to pass. I am so over religion I am beside myself . Mak_Tin_Si, you need to understand for some going into another 'religious' organization will cause us to physically explode. If a master wants to talk about principles, practice, etc then fine. Religion is out for me. fiveelementtao, also good post.

wudangquan, I agree. None of my teachers in China spoke English. While I didn't catch everything they said I valued their stuff highly. Here's a couple of vids.. Zhu Shifu. He taught me what he calls embryonic standing techniques. My Bagua Shifu and I had a Neigong Shifu in Shanghai but no video. wudangquan, where are you in China and how are you surviving? Teaching English? oh, here's some links for learning Chinese (middle top of the page). http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/china/shanghailinks.html

Comments? It is said he ate only above ground items. Practiced Bagua.......

I agree with Pranaman. Two simple exercises. 1. Swimming Dragon Qigong. Great for the spine, metabolism, and more. 2. Standing Zhan Zhuang (Wuji Qigong) with the palms at their sides. Standing meditation. Anyway, sitting should be combined with Standing and moving to balance Yin and Yang.

Mak_Tin_Si, Thank you for your post. Could you also provide the Chinese Characters for any Chinese terms you post. I'm sorry I don't understand Cantonese. thanks,

Mak_Tin_Si, welcome. I'm new here myself. Can I request, if you post Chinese terms in something other than mandarin, could you also post the Chinese characters too? I don't understand Guangdong hua at all. Thanks,

I'm in agreement with wudangquan, My interest in MA, CMA, or IMA is from an energetic/health standpoint. I can be just as happy practicing Zhan Zhuang or non-martial qigong or neigong than a martial art. Also, another reason I choose Chinese Martial arts over other styles. I love the beauty of the form. The forms the dragon bagua I practice are beautiful. But, I also like the strengthening aspects of Neigong and Bagua.

I must say I'm shocked and disappointed at the Exorbitant pricing I'm seeing for Qigong, Medical Qigong, and Taoist classes lately. Are these classes becoming only for the super-rich? Here's one: http://tcmworld.org/programs/tao_of_medica...CFQZqswodvhfe3A Here's another: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry76565 The price vs amount of material ratio is way off. If you consider what it would take to come to a decent level over time the amount of money it would take could buy a house. When I learned Qigong my teacher would not take any money from me. My Neigong teacher told me if you say thank you one more time I will stop teaching you. My bagua teacher charged me 25.00 a month for classes and personal instruction almost daily. I really feel sad for beginning students today who are thirsting for knowledge only to be stopped by these crazy prices.

Yeah, I cry too when officals get elected. All of them are just above worthless IMO.

mjjbecker, Nice Video. One of my teachers in Shanghai taught me some of these techniques for developing the body to take a punch like the first guy. This guy's stomach was like punching a tire. He taught me techniques for building Chest, Back and other areas and told me it would build my stomach like his. Like Iron Body techniques. He worked out with trees in the park and boy I wouldn't want to take a hit from him. And, if you looked at him in the group he bs'd with in the park you'd think he was just another one of the guys. Nothing special. This is another thing MA teaches. To develop the body in such a way that parts are like weapons, other parts are like armor. And, to look like you couldn't fight your way out of a paper bag. Then, you have the drop on the other guy. A sleeper.

Hey wenwu, Do I know you ? We practice Bagua from Wang ZhuangFei. Dong HaiChuan -> YinFu -> Gong BaoTian -> Wang ZhuangFei As I understand it, Gong Baotian also studied with Dong HaiChuan after his time with Yinfu. My teacher's name is Ming QianBo who studied with several ppl in our lineage.

BJJ is 90 percent about techniques and ground fighting. Good stuff of course but most people don't really know much about Bagua. The core of Bagua is the Jibengong, basics. Bagua Zhan Zhuang, Circle walking, etc. There are core principles which must be adhered to, otherwise the training is for nothing. Contrast Bruce's video with that of my teacher here: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=HudnSSwzOIY or Zhang Dugan a disciple of Wang Hanzhi http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=10uDXPApg-8 Note the rounded back. One basic principle is "3 Hollows", 1 in the palm, 2 in the chest, 3 in the bottom of the foot. The feet should grab the ground like a dragon, like a suction cup. The chest is empty thus rounding the back. The palm is hollow and open. There is a lot more but the point is when adhering to these principles in practice the body is developed. Connection is developed. I would NOT like to be hit by any of these guys. My teacher's arms are like steel. His palms are like steel. He is amazing.