exorcist_1699

Thanks. Qi is in fact from emptiness, so of course more basic than any other forms of livings. However, in the area of modern science, people are accustomed to separating subjects of knowledge and technology, and cannot understand Taoist approach. Physicsts Hawking and Feymann get different diseases and suffered from them , yet nobody will think that because they are experts in black hole, gravitation, sub-particles ..., the basic stuff of this universe , then they should be able to cure themselves and not going to see doctors who are experts in dealing with things mainly at other levels say cell and molecular levels.. In the case of qigong practice , we get a very strange approach: once people can mobilise qi, and can sustain an emptied mind for minutes ,for example, then they start to get their fate in their own hands , not relying on other so-called experts. Qi is so basic, just with a correct grasp of shen, it becomes god-like and solve all our problems ; how strange an approach it is .

Taoism emphasizes jing and qi , and pays attention to the bodily changes , so there are "secrets " of Ming gong(practice) . Buddhism, ignoring Esoteric Buddhism here, is mainly a pure spiritual practice so hardly does it recognize any " secret " to find in order to gain a leap forward . There are only varied levels of the emptied Mind you have to attain , and whether you get a higher/ deeper one or not can only be confirmed by your sifu who had before you attained such a level . I think likely Taoist one is more full and meets what people really experience for what we eat , what we drink , how we sleep.. all affect our practice . Ming and Xing gong ( a series of deepening , emptied minds..s ) are in fact difficult to separate ; Taoist criticism on Buddhist way is reasonable and must not be ignored. Jing and Qi are too important to be mistaken as just "forms " ( "相" ) that people are vulnerable to be trapped in . In fact , Taoist Ming gong is not that secret ,especially after a modern guy Zhao pi-zhen( 趙避塵, 1860- ) , who belongs to the Wu-Liu school, had written so much about it explicitly that anyone can google it by Chinese . It is more a problem of low Chinese language ability of the Western people than a problem of so-called Chinese Taoists sticking to their vanity of keeping secrets not releasing them to others..

Likely it is true. However , reading " The Journey to the West " does need very high Chinese ability , especially those Taoist poems at the beginning of each chapter .

Our life is in fact a struggle between the spiritual( Shen) and the physical ( jing +qi) forces , and they fight with each other in every minute of it. The Taiji diagram already shows us its meaning : People get the need to masturbate either because the have accumulated too much jing ( physical side stronger) or because they are in depression, confusion .., for example, if their girlfriends run away from them, or they get fired, or playing too much online games..etc, that is , they are in spiritually low , depleted status .., then in either case , the balance is broken and you have the lust gets an upper hand ,so, you succumb to your lust.. Besides , it is not when people are in an awake status that they have to pay attention to , but say, in sleeping or whatever status or form it be , as long as jing is lost , then it is fatal and you lose. All other means to tame , say not watching porn videos, getting a bath of cold water when you get strong desire, not eating spicy food..etc are all trivial , not thorough . So difficult it is that although Taoist alchemy claims "capable of retaining jing gives people forever life" looks seemingly not so significant , hardly can people succeed in taming that beast inside. Nor the direct-qi-from-lower-dantian-upwards way be the solution because you are till using an ordinary mind's way to treat the problem . In fact, a deep emptied Mind is its through solution ( thorough treatment of unclean jing and qi ) as what the I-Ching says : "君子終日乾乾，反復道也"

Yeah. But I know not much about other Yoga/Tantra and other dharmic practices. Maybe they have their unique expressions.

After thousands years of arguments and interactions among those Buddhist and Daoist practitioners in deep caves and on mountain tops, some theoretical integration does come out from the Daoists ,and it looks something easy and effective, at least to some people . I try to simplify some aspect of it related as follows: Integrate Daoist jing-qi- shen framework with Zen's abrupt , emptied Mind ( not other Buddhist emptied minds) gives you a good combination of those good components from these systems. As Daoist way of accumulating jing and qi makes attaining that series of emptied mind =>Mind easy and natural , people no longer need to deliberately search for it ( a deliberate search definitely fails and blocks you ); conversely , the attained emptied mind=>Mind helps you understand what the trap of attaching to jing and qi means and helps you releasing from it . In fact , attachment to them is the main reason why people's practice stagnant and the reason why big troubles arisen. In a word, combining Daoist jing-qi-shen framework with the Zen's emptied Mind gives you some kind of benign / positive interaction that benefits your practice most .

To old guys/ ladies, say those over 60 , of course cultivating Ming is their priority . Theory about Ming is also much easier to grasp as they are related to things like what postures better , which dantian to start, what time give you most effects , ways of breathing..etc. That means, old people should handle thing more urgent , use things more handy so as lengthen their life span for decades ,say up to 100, so that after retirement they get the time and energy to explore Xing . Understanding Xing is much difficult and there is no guarantee, but once people get it , all Ming's problems become easy.

Sad to hear this. He was always supportive even though he knew of my inclination to religious Taoism and his favor of philosophical Taoism is undoubtful . I can't stop recalling how he gave me a hand when I was under fire in some posts. Maybe the regrets of many people's life are their knowing of the Taoist jing-qi-shen theory not earlier enough ..

The Chinese think that the world is composed of qi, in fact, the Chinese culture, before the incoming of Buddhism , can be said to be a unique culture of qi as both Taoism and Confucianism speak about it . They argue that qi is the foundamental source and power of this world , true for both the spiritual and material ones. Note that although all things come from qi, it is only living things that get jing and shen ( spirit ) . Jing is a delicate substance arises from qi under certain circumstances ( now we know that it is a belt of area with right distance from the Sun(s) , the main Yang, of any solar system where temperature is suitable and water exists) . Although only high intelligent beings get self-concious type of shen emerged from jing , capable of reflecting and separating themselves from their environment , other living things also develope their respective ways ( socalled biological algorithms) of living , adapting and reproducing in this universe. So, shen can appear to us as various forms and levels of intelligence that always perplex us : white cells identify and kill incoming virus, desert ants find their routes back home from long distance away , octopus capable of changing their skin colors for their environment..etc

Qi comes from jing, its quality determines how subtle and powerful qi is . A brain dominated by weak and dull qi can't remember things well, can't grasp the complexities of things well , let alone talking about being creative or not . To old guys and ladies , nothing is more practical than rescuing their deteriorating mind and bodies .

The theory of Tao , without qi , can only be a philosophy limited to abstract idea level , hardly can it be realized and become something really practical . Qi is like a powerful tool 1000 times more powerful than a swiss knife that you can bring along wherever you go . Taoism , right at its early period of birth , is closely linked to medicine because the body is the first place you can test its practical effects: curing diseases, reversing aging, enhancing intelligence..etc . It is only after capable of expanding your qi beyond the body boundary do you find its more external usages.

Maybe we can set up a device to explore the character of emptiness, this likely is what those physicists are doing, but it will be something very big , expensive and involved a team of people . I think, to an individual , we can explore and tap emptiness through our mind , or more precisely speaking , through our emptied Mind . It is said that " 同類易施工兮,非種難為巧"( from Can Tong Qi) (" Because they are the same kind, it can easily be done; otherwise , it can not be so effective ")

It comes from a Taoist master Tan Qiao ("譚峭") who lived at the end of the Tang Dynasty .

"Forget everything and become enlightened" is extremely difficult for most people , it is like asking a bug which is living and moving on a 2D world, wholly fixed in it , to jump out of that 2D plane, entering into an unknown space ; it is nearly impossible because that bug just doesn't sense and understand what that extra 3rd dimension can be . Similarly , although our consciousness and analytic mind give us very powerful ability to analyze , imagine, dream , even an intuitive ability to grasp the core of things at one stroke, Enlightenment as another dimension* of our 3D world and always described by Taoism as something capable of 'breaking open a primordial hole ' (' 鴻蒙竅' ) in emptiness , is still too difficult for our attaching-to-the-3D-world mind to understand . We are fully trapped in it through our senses ( '法執' ) and our entanglement of its inward projection , our pseudo-egos ('我執') . However , the seemingly Buddhist way of forget-everything-and-become-enlightened can be combined with Taoist jing-qi-shen as we get the famous saying ( in fact , a way ) from a Taoist master : "忘形以養氣，忘氣以養神，忘神以養虛 " (" Forget forms , jing or physical stuff , so as to nourish qi, forget qi so as to nourish shen , forget shen so as to nourish emptiness " ) . Of course, we have to be capable of mobilizing qi first in order to forget it , and it can be done step by step , or at one stroke . So, it is something practical , not necessarily elusive . * Most people refer time as the 4th dimension of our 3D world , which I prefer to leave it aside for future exploration ; however , I do think that maybe we can explore time along with qi , see my previous post on such issue.

The mentioned two ways are both Taoist : 1) Shen/Xing first , Meng ( jing + qi ) later (先性後命) or 2) Meng first , Xing later ( 先命後性) What way you adopt is somehow age related . Likely for old guys, say those over 60 , you are suggested to adopt the Meng-first way because Taoist cultivation is a long-run enterprise , in your 60s, the main job is to lengthen your physical life, getting ride of disease and aging symptoms so that continuous cultivation possible . Besides, at that age, you can't attain spiritual achievement so easily ,and seeing that no immediate effect of it, you might give it up . Also Meng-first way can give you significant effects quickly, you will get the confidence to continue. However, this way is also said to be " 先易後難" ( Seemingly easy first but difficult later ) because you leave the critical spiritual issue ( emptying your mind issue) to the late period of your cultivation which inevitably block the advance of the whole process. On the other hand, gifted young guys can adopt the Xing-first way . Although it is difficult at the beginning, but once you have grasped the character of Shen , other things become trivial and easy . So it is also said to be a " 先難後易" way ( " Difficult first but later much easy" ).

An emptied Mind ,if we can consolidate One , together with the external emptiness , are in fact two faces of the same coin : Tao . However, it is only after our having the ability of bringing up such a Mind, can we understand the emptiness outside , tap the energy from it . As emptiness is everywhere without limitation , so energy from it is endless, which is also the reason why having attained such a Mind implies forever physical life ( Taoist interpretation , not Buddhist ) .

Hi Sebastian, thanks your response. "Qi rises to my head " ..,then if your Qi 's quality is further improved , it will grasp your minds ; and the longer it grasps and settles your minds, the better it is . Since your minds is settled, you then start to understand what shen might look likes..; better use shen to upgrade our qi , not use an ordinary everyday mind to do . Just some superficial ideas .

Most methods of meditation teach people to use their mind to settle their fluctuating minds , so it means they are using more minds , not less minds ; the result is most of them fail . Taoist method is unique , it teaches people to mobilize qi first, then by making use qi to settle their minds. It works because jing-qi-shen is, in fact , some kind of Trinity .

Some people think that qi is cultivated by getting away from the crowd or hiding in the innermost of the mountains may not be true. Qi, in fact , not only can be cultivated in a secret, private place , but also among the crowd. For every mocking you return it with a smile ; every other people's disaster ,you try stretching out your help hand; every plot against you , you return it with forgiveness...all these do upgrade and expand your qi . This is the reason why Laotse is aslo called "Dao Da (virtue) Jing" . It may sound strange to many people , qi is , in fact , the basis of virtues. Same as a marathon runner who deliberately train himself on the plateau, a taoist can polish his qi in the society, a place full of temptations , accusations and dangers.

Hi, rainbowvein ,thanks. This is a post I wrote many years ago and even I already forgot I had ever written something like this . I think it is a topic deserves more discussion although the original copy was written in clumsy English . It is said that qi is a portable expertise （" 隨身本事" ) that we can bring along with us wherever we go ; it lets us not only not bow to the powerful and rich , cure other people at our own will , but also protects us from diseases, cold and fierce beasts . Carrying such a powerful energy /weapon inside us is wonderful , yet also dangerous , so virtue becomes something indispensable to confine it .

A herbal formula of TCM is a prescription composed of two or more than two herbs. Its combination is not something simply an addition of several herbs with similar effect so as to give a cure , quite the contrary , mixing several herbs together does give rise to some specific result. So, you not only have to know the individual effect of a herb, say ginseng replenish and enhance qi , danggui ( a major herb for women ) replenish blood , but also the combinative effect when you use them together ; for example , if you boil 10 grams of ginseng with 15 grams of danggui in a bowl for 45 minutes , what effect it will give to a lady who always feels fatigue ? Here are something to note when learning/using a formula : 1) In a herbal formula, there are always one or two herbs which play the major role , and the other one or two herbs playing secondary, supporting role . Find and identify them can let you quickly understand what the formula does ; other elements in the formula are then just something complementary. 2) The quantity of the major and secondary herbs being used always get bigger quantity /portion , in a prescription for an adult they always appear as 10 grams or more ; this is also another point to let you recognize them easier . 3) Classical formulas(經方) are prescriptions that have been using for thousands of years and have themselves proved being effective for certain diseases , for example, the Decoction of Four Drugs ( "四物湯" : dang gui 10 g, shu di huang 15 g, bai shao 12 g, chuan xiong 6 g) for curing women's diseases or Decoction of Six Gentlemen ( " 六君子湯" , mainly use ginseng and bai shu ) for curing lack of qi, vulnerable to fatigue..etc; Learning TCM formula through these classical ones is a good way to learn Chinese herbs, maybe even a way to learning Chinese .

Not much , but I am quite sure that there is no yin-yang concepts as Taoist in the Indian Yoga system. Indian Yoga entered China more than one thousand years ago , so the Chinese Buddhists and Taoists do know what it is .

If we just view Taoist dantians and the Indian chakras as some kind of centers where energy comes out, then it is easy to make some sort of comparisons , however , people seem to miss that there are yin-yang and i-ching concepts behind the Taoist dantian theory which the Indian system lacks of . For example , in the Taoist system , wherever part of our body gets convex/overhanging part and/ or hair growth , wherever is viewed as the part possessing yang qi . It is therefore not strange to find that the lower abdomen, center of our breasts and forehead plus the in-depth part from it to the skull be viewed as dantians ; and by focusing on any of them , it is much easier to mobilize qi we want . The general rule is while women be advised to paying attention to their middle dantians , men are advised to focus on their lower abdomen. The upper dantian , despite being some kind of short-cut to the final destination , due to its difficulty of being manipulated in terms of how strong a strength we should apply , is seldom advocated. There is also no I-ching typed of concepts such as using water ( hidden in the lower dantian ) to counteract the upper fire ( the fluctuating minds) in the Indian system . In fact, it is unlikely that the mind can settle itself , empty itself without other help . In most cases, the more eager we want to settle it, empty it, the more minds we are putting into it... ,making it nearly an impossible job . Taoist solution gives us another perspective to deal with the issue .

Thanks. Taoism is something a mixture of philosophy, Taoism and science, it is difficult to define it in Western terms . The key is the ability to initialize qi , then upgrade it to shen, then all doubts are clarified and solved . And, a clear , full picture of what human intelligent is appears to us ...; people will no longer be entangled by those differences between Buddhism, science and Taoism .

Walker, a member of this forum , once posted a post about this important poetry left behind by Immortal Lu of the Tang Dynasty , but it was in Chinese, without any translation, so I try to make a translation of it here : 養氣忘言守，降心為不為。 動靜知宗祖，無事更尋誰。 真常須應物，應物要不迷。 不迷性自住，性住氣自回。 氣回丹自結，壺中配坎離。 陰陽生返复，普化一聲雷。 白雲朝頂上，甘露灑須彌。 自飲長生酒，逍遙誰得知。 坐聽無弦曲，明通造化機。 都來二十句，端的上天梯 ( My translation ) Nourish your qi by paying attention to nowhere, empty your mind through not expecting anything more * . No matter you are in action or stay at rest, you let the real-Self, consolidated by the primordial qi, take charge ; free and at ease , you find no necessity to search anything or anyone who claims greater # . The free and real Self needs to trains itself in daily challenges ; it is through cultivating itself in the world that it becomes free of worries and doubts . Once not lost and not entangled by fakes in this world , the Spiritual Nature of us will return ; once it returned and stayed, the primordial qi also comes. With the primordial qi returned, the gold dan starts to form, making Kan and Li ** mixed together . In such a mixture, a higher level of intercourse between yin and yang arises and reverses , producing something like a thunder thudded. With clouds rising up to the sky, turned into holy rains and fell back to the mountains, Taoist dan is consolidated ^ . It is like drinking some wine of immortality, a feeling of coziness hardly others ever tasted . It is like sitting there listening to a string-less musical instrument played by the nature, you know you have got the secret of it . With these phases , you are led climbing up the ladder towards the Heaven with faith . Notes: * You can't attain an emptied Mind through an intention to empty it or expect any achievements( those vanities) because trying to do so you are adding extra mind(s) to it. The more you want to empty your mind, the more you add minds to it, so never can you succeed. # No search is the real search ; there is no need to cultivate Tao, no cultivation is the real cultivation (" 道不用修, 可修者非道也" ). Any extra mind or expectation is a deviation from the spiritual Entity . ** Kan is said to be something yang enveloped by yin, located somewhere in between our kidneys; Li is said to be something yin enveloped by yang , located somewhere inside our head. The return of the primordial qi ( pre-heavenly qi ) makes their intercourse possible, and the jump from post-heavenly level to pre-heavenly level therefore realized. ^ Dan , in fact, is something a result of the intercourse between the sky and the land ;