freeform

Is that your dog in your avatar pic?

What country?

Meditation or energy work will literally just add fuel to the fire. I understand you don’t want to hear this, but you’re risking your sanity. On the other hand, physical exercise done diligently will help immensely.

The important bit is how are you going about it. Are you sitting or standing? Are you using the correct structural principles? Is your awareness focused or diffuse? Generally the best way to go about it is to learn to stand correctly (not in classical Zhang Zhuan though). The reason that structure is important is because we want all the tissues of the body to aid you in your practice. Using mental intention won’t do it. We must create the correct conditions in our physical structure for the Dantien to build and attract Qi automatically (not through intention). Once the structure is correct, you can begin to find your centre of mass. You do this by using your body as a fulcrum - if you’re standing tall and shift your weight back and forth, you’ll find that your centre of mass is up in the chest. When you sink down into your Kua and do the same, you’ll find your centre of mass in the abdominal area. Now all you need to do is find that perfect height through trial and error that lines up exactly with the level of your lower Dantien. Once you find the perfect height, you stay there and relax your mind so that it sinks through your body down to the abdominal cavity. There you just ‘listen’ with diffuse, passive awareness. The sensations that you will feel are largely irrelevant - there is no ‘correct feeling’ as such - there’s only the correct principles applied properly - the sensations will always change. Doing this over time will locate and build your Dantien and slowly fill it with Qi. Hope that helps

To be honest Qigong and the other internal arts would probably make things worse. TCM from a good practitioner may well be of help. But the most healing thing to do in these sorts of situations is to really focus on physical exercise. Not lifting weights but aerobic and intense body weight conditioning type exercises. That would make the the biggest difference in the shortest amount of time and prepare you perfectly for any of the internal arts that you decide to pursue.

Exactly! You’re wise enough to know your limitations. I certainly have doubts whether I'm capable of following this path myself - and I’ve dedicated a major part of my life to it. Many aren’t so cautious and they get into trouble or just mess up their perfectly good lives - I’ve seen countless such cases. Thats why it’s best to discourage people heading up the path to ‘Mt Everest’... take a nice scenic hike instead PS - you mentioned spending time with family. But once you get the ball rolling on these sorts of practices, you will periodically need to enter into long term retreat (measured in years not weeks). And it’s a must because otherwise you’ll be a danger to yourself and others around you.

Just to add a small point regarding ‘Wu wei’. I believe that in the Daoist (not Confucian or Mencius’) use of the term they only talk about ‘wei wu wei’ (correct me if I’m wrong). The reason that’s important is because it points to ‘effortless action’ - not just effortlessness or spontaneity. And that’s the case in authentic Qigong. One doesn’t lead Qi directly (with imagination or focused intention) but sets up the conditions for it to move of its own accord. Just as you wouldn’t ‘make’ a flower grow - you’d prepare the ground, fertilise the soil, pull weeds and irrigate - and the flower grows of its own accord. In the same way one has to build skill into their body-mind and once that’s been achieved you let go of contrived action and enter the state of effortless action where the skill manifests as wei wu wei. If you don’t set up the conditions. If you don’t acquire the skill. Effortless action will not manifest. There is no magical butchering ability inherent in Ding.

Well it is true that once the Dantien gets going it often results in horrific shits! That’s certainly true. The foundation often seems the least fancy and ‘esoteric’ but is almost always where you need to spend the majority of your time. (although many teachers hide some small detail that makes these things actually work... but that’s another conversation.) Yes you’re right. However - I’m talking about actual spiritual practice, that creates fundamental changes to your consciousness - not development of power or control. Specifically the practices that lead beyond ‘awakening’ or ‘realisation’ - the stage of ‘Zhen Ren’ (which can actually happen spontaneously to people who don’t even train and is experienced as this non-dual connection to everything). A great attainment in its own right. But the practices im talking about are the ones that lead to enlightenment and beyond. At a certain stage you’re literally “hacking” the fundamental building blocks of reality - literally like messing with atom bombs, but on the human scale. For example the majority of people who die suddenly from higher level internal alchemy practice actually die of ‘internal electrocution’ - usually as a mishap when working on fusing Yin and Yang Qi.

Thats also my understanding. Although this isn’t likely to appeal to wandelaar

Exactly. The first part of the first verse of the DDJ can be translated as “the Dao that can be walked is not the eternal Dao” There are obviously many layers of meaning (which is what makes it such a magical text) On one layer, what it’s saying here is that if you want to achieve Dao then you have to walk the path - and walking the path by definition can’t be Dao. You have to do non-Dao to get to Dao. You have to put in effort to achieve effortlessness. It’s a paradox - but it clearly makes sense. Butcher Ding had to learn and perfect his craft for many years before he could effortlessly do his work. It wasn’t a quality in him already. It is gong. Skill achieved through long term effort.

Yes the preparatory stuff is vipassana, metta, mindfulness, watching the breath, sitting forgetting, heart-mind fasting etc. As well as other less well known mental training disciplines. As well as building the foundations for spiritual practice, these are all useful for general well-being, attention, focus, relaxation, clear thinking, increasing discipline and will etc. This is what I’d recommend to most people. There’s a lifetimes worth of practice in this category. The spiritual practices are the various Jhana practices (there are Daoist counterparts). The higher levels of alchemy... entering and abiding in Shen Ming... Tai Ding (samadhi concentration) and many other higher level practices (like Yuan Yu) There are many Ming (karmic) implications of initiating someone into real spiritual practice (whether through teaching or through transmission) when it’s not right for the person. The spiritual practices can can be quite dangerous. There are many accidental deaths, suicides and psychotic breakdowns in this arena. Thats why I tend to dissuade people in shooting for these levels of practice. The ones who’re really dedicated and ready for them will usually get to them despite this

You're quite right - I wasn’t being precise with terminology. I did think that ‘awakenings’, particularly the use of the plural term would make it obvious that these were various short term experiences. They each have their specific terms such as Nei Guan, Zhi Guan And other various states of absorption like Ting. But I didn’t think they’d mean much to most, or further the conversation. I strongly disagree here. Most people in their excitement shoot for the top of Mt Everest, but die on the way because they’re simply not prepared for the undertaking. In the same way I actually think that people should (in general) be actively discouraged from spiritual practice.

I agree with that. I also agree that sitting practice is of great help to the majority of people. There are some people for whom spiritual cultivation is their main purpose in life - for them, having a very clear understanding of specific terms and what they point to is of paramount importance. ‘Meditation’ is one such term and it’s a very advanced practice that most people don’t get to - let alone cultivate further than just the start. Which is more than ok! I certainly haven’t managed real meditation yet. You can cook a damn fine meal without being a Michellin star chef. In fact most people prefer a nice home-made meal to fine gastronomy. Even though I’ve had all sorts of profound ‘awakenings’, I’m becoming more and more aware of how short they fall from what meditation really is. Nothing wrong with that - it’s just helpful to be aware of it, if spiritual cultivation is your life’s work.

This really depends on your definition of ‘meditation’. There are many profound states of consciousness that occur before ‘meditation’ does. It is said that entering Jhana (beginning of actual meditation) can only be accomplished in any stable way with the direct help of a master that has achieved this state already.

Why are you getting sick and tired of it?

Good discussion. I would just like to point out the classical view that what we tend to call ‘meditation’ is actually just preparatory mental training (mindfulness etc). Very important and useful stuff - but it’s best to differentiate Eastern mental training from the spiritual discipline of meditation (which is of absolutely no use (or even accessible) for 99.9% of the population.) PS - I understand this comment goes against what we’re generally told - and what I used to believe.

I don’t think that’s what he meant.

This is the main thing, I believe. Taking time to appreciate simple things with a quiet mind can drastically improve people’s life. But it’s not modern life that stands in the way of this. You can just as easily distract yourself with books and gossip and emotional reactivity in what seems a simple life. Its simply a decision. ‘I decide that quietness of mind is more important than mental stimulation.’ And then you act accordingly. And I’m sorry but this has very little to do with enlightenment. Except in that if you can't do something as simple as that, then enlightenment is out of the question.

Regarding a ‘simple life’. What is that?! Beyond the outer appearances. We we tend to have a romantic notion about it, but if you really look closely and try to discern the reality of it, it’s never quite simple. Ive spent time with people that seem to live a simple life. A mountain goat herder for example. If one was to make a film of his life you’d see him holding his staff, looking into the distance in beautiful scenery while his goats stroll chewing on shrubs. He chops wood and carries water. Has no tv. Doesn’t use facebook etc. But if you talk to him you realise just how complex his life is. While he’s looking into the distance he’s not in a state of blissful calm - he’s there calculating the next grazing rotation for his goats. It’s not easy because the rains are late. The only land available is part of another shepherd’s patch. So he’ll have to bargain with him. But what with? His wife has arthritis in her fingers and is finding it hard to milk the goats but his children are in school. Maybe he’ll need to take em out? His land is slowly eroding in quality because of overgrazing. What to do? The mountain road is cut off by a mudslide last month - no supplies until next summer - and the potatoe harvest is awful this year. He’ll have to harvest one of his goats (his family’s precious ‘bank account’) etc etc etc These are all conversations I’ve had with such herders. I think only children have a simple life...

[This was in response to me asking why OldDog thought that enlightenment is available to everyone and isn’t special...] Not offended in the least. Just wanted to understand your perspective. (I still don’t quite.) Do you think that being a surgeon is available to all? Do you think that being a stone mason is available to all? What if you have no arms? What im getting at is that I don’t believe that any undertaking is available to all. Not even factory work. Let alone the absolute peak of human achievement. And I’ll leave the thousands of years worth of accumulated knowledge on the (almost impossible) path to enlightenment out for now...

What makes you think that?

There’s discussion and there’s practice.

Simple life on the inside - it’s actually a pretty important point.

Depends a lot on the translation. DDJ is a multifaceted book - what you often get is the translators own biases.

🙈