freeform

From the Daoist perspective, it depends how exactly you plan to kill yourself. Certain ways of dying guarantee an immediate entry into ‘the hell realms’. Being in the hell realms means you will not reincarnate into human form, but will suffer in (almost) perpetual torment. The torment is usually related to the torment that brought you to kill yourself in the first place. If you kill yourself in a way that allows your Po spirit to be released upon death, then your Hun spirit won’t (necessarily) be dragged down to the hell realms, but would have the chance of reincarnation... although there are many Ming - based issues created if you kill yourself to end suffering, and your rebirth is likely to be a much less fortunate one. I guess you may think ‘how much less fortunate could things really be?’... but you’re prosperous enough to be writing this message on a digital device. Meaning you can read and write, you can afford a device, or have access to one, and you probably live in a first world country. Being able to type means you have fingers and no major mental disability. Visiting a spiritual website suggests you have intellect and some insight even. So at least materially, you’re incredibly lucky... all indications are that if you kill yourself while in this very fortunate life, your next life will be much less materially fortunate. Here’s just one example of a materially less fortunate existence From the Buddhist perspective the outlook is not much better (worse actually). Willingness to harm yourself or others - particularly in the last moments before death creates karma that results in unlimited suffering (dying without this karma limits the amount of suffering). On the other hand - if you’re able to enter Jhanna meditation at the moment of suicide, you’re almost guaranteed a pretty fortunate rebirth

Thanks Seb My retreat went very well. It’s amazing what you can achieve in just a month when focusing on full-time cultivation.

I’m sure about the fact that the practice of YJJ creates yang Qi to a high enough level to create ‘electric-like’ effects. I’ve met many practitioners able to project Yang Qi (as ‘electric’ shocks) just as Peng is reported to do - and I’ve built this sort of Yang Qi in my own body through the application of YJJ principles (though I haven’t learned to project). I don’t know what ‘small death’ means, but that seems to be more of a timing thing than a cause and effect thing. Circus tricks - YJJ and Brain and Marrow Washing (BMW) are designed to prepare one for the extremes of deep meditation... These are preparatory arts for spiritual work, and they go very deep indeed... this electric shock emission is just one side effect... strength, health, vitality and the building of extreme amounts of Qi is also a bunch of side effects - but all necessary for later work on the spiritual level. The YJJ And BMW are thought to be Buddhist in origin, but they’ve clearly been readily adopted by Daoists. YJJ forms the backbone of most classical Qi Gong and Nei Gong systems (rarely admitted)... and the BMW forms much of the later level Nei Gong and Alchemical work. The YJJ basically starts with a way of transitioning away from using the major muscles as the primary ‘engine’ of movement - and instead moving to using the ‘tendons and sinews’... or rather several different layers of fascia-like tissue as well as strands of ‘deep muscle’... These tissues are able to conduct Qi (and later actually build Qi) while the majors muscles cannot. This work takes a long time... many years. It’s very uncomfortable, painful and difficult. It’s literally like bodybuilding - but building something very different to the muscles. You must have the correct methods otherwise it’s just stretching and breathing Once the YJJ body (or Qigong body as I normally call it) is built, your channels are largely clear (and in many cases fused together) - your muscles are soft and relaxed, but there’s this thick steel cable-like structure of connective tissue around the bone. Steel wrapped in cotton The body looks vibrant, slightly ‘expanded’ like a baby’s (Peng in taiji) and becomes very strong (so yes taking blows and feats of strength are possible - although most of the circus acts just build these things directly (eg. calluses and ordinary muscle strength) - not through YJJ) BMW goes further and works with the bones and marrow (the brain was considered marrow) and clears blockages and then builds further Qi generation engine and storage. This moves onto the alchemical work of ‘burning the channels’ - which burns away Karmic roots in the channels.

Yeah, Peng clearly knows what he’s talking about. His ‘electric shock’ skill is a classic result of high level YJJ skill. There is no actual YJJ ‘form’, just a range of qualities and principles that can be applied to most ‘internal’ forms. It’s the ‘engine’ of internal movement... later it’s also a method of clearing channels and generating very powerful Qi. However - instructions to use muscles or tension is a common way to ‘hide’ the true engine. When masters use YJJ principles, it often looks like intense muscular effort. It’s not. It’s the intense Qi pressure moving through the Jing Jin. It’s a very uncomfortable practice. If he still has any connection with his teachers or his original school, he would be condemned if he released the real information in such a public format. But I might be wrong - I’ve not done his course - just heard about some of what he teaches. Visualisation and use of force, tension or muscles is the usual giveaway - so judge for yourselves. The Qi generated with authentic YJJ is very ‘thick’ and ‘dense’ - when it’s projected it can be very intense for the recipient - often felt as strong electric shocks moving through the body or painful lines of compression/compaction. Treating this way is really dangerous for both patient and practitioner. The training can be damaging if done incorrectly too... most of the YJJ sets on YouTube are fine though - they’re useful stretching routines, but not the real stuff.

Yi Jin Jing principles are everywhere in the internal arts... it’s what makes these arts internal... The real stuff is all rather secretive. It’s also very powerful and can be dangerous. It’s not in any book or video (at least not fully). By ‘real stuff’ I mean taking things beyond just activating the Jing Jin - but building the (physical) Dantien... generating huge quantities of yang Qi and yin Qi and ‘filling’ the body... this eventually moves into the marrow changing work and alchemy... Robert Peng’s (yang Qi) skill is all based on the Yi Jin Jing - but from what I could see he doesn’t actually teach the real stuff.

Taiji is much more fun. Qi Gong has more scope for spiritual development. But the biggest deciding factor should be your access to a good teacher...

Yeah - that kind of hair loss is linked with kidney deficiency... also sore knees, lower back issues, graying hair etc... I’d say that if anyone is really set on carrying on with the practice, just bear this in mind... and maybe nourish blood and kidneys as much as possible...

Happy to discuss over PM if you’d like. But I’ll be going on retreat for a month starting tomorrow evening - so you’ll have to be quick

You mean what lineage? My main influence is from Quanzhen Daoism (Mostly Longmen branch) but also some training from the Shanqing line, Thai Forest Tradition Buddhism and a Burmese Theravada line.

It’s basically a method of quickly tapping the energy reserves of your kidneys to strengthen your Wei Qi... the concern is that you’ll deplete your kidneys - the damages of which will show up in later life. Some constitutions can handle it for longer than others. Sounds like it’s great for mental toughness though.

What’s ruschen? There are many Daoist (and non Daoist) systems that use this process (known as Zifa gong - sometimes as ‘spontaneous movement’)... it’s similar to Kriya I believe?

The Daoist training I’ve been through emphasises not delving into emotions at the level of emotions. To get here one must have achieved the skill of sinking the mind and sinking the Qi. (Takes a while!) Once these qualities are present, it’s pretty simple - you have no idea what it is that you’re releasing... you’d for example sense a constricted pattern of Qi literally travel through your body and come out of your extremities... sometimes it’s the pattern of trauma, sometimes it’s a pathogen, sometimes it’s something physical - like one practitioner whose fillings started popping out during this phase of training - another had a piece of shrapnel pop out of his leg... The key in my particular training has always been 1) not focusing on a specific trauma and 2) not trying to remember, analyse, re-experience or work with it in any conscious way. Just do the training and things dislodge and leave the system. What this can sometimes look like during training is like an emotional release - you’ll see people laughing or crying or roaring - but if they’re asked what’s happening or what they’re crying about, they’ll have no idea - there won’t be any conscious perceptions of emotions - just the expression... of course this is generally only in the early part of the training... later it’s a lot more subtle - like the constricted pattern leaving example above.

I think saying that in Tantric practices you ‘work with negative emotion’ is confusing things... You don’t work with the emotions, you work with the ‘substance’ underlying the emotion - which is Qi. On the level of Qi there is no emotionality - there’s just Qi - it’s sort of mechanical. The aim is equanimity - not indulging in emotionality... but also not trying to ignore emotionality... and dealing with it (and many other mental qualities and aspects of consciousness) on the ‘level’ of Qi. So for example in Daoist practice (which is also a Tantric path) what you experience as sadness has an energetic/Qi counterpart... when instead of focusing on the sadness, you engage at the level of Qi, you just experience a movement inwards - a sort of contraction/drawing in. In this way you don’t ignore what’s clearly taking place, but you don’t indulge in experiencing emotionality...

Im not talking about convection - I’m talking about Qi. Your conduct suggests that you never actually left middle school. At least now I know who not to engage in conversation again

But you haven’t addressed the fact that it’s a process that has characteristics of a substance in certain conditions... People get very flummoxed by paradox but that’s the nature of Daoist arts - constant paradox. We’re told that the Dao cannot be spoken about but then presented with 81 chapters on Dao... We’re told not to be drawn into ‘bookish bedevilment’ but then presented with countless classics and commentaries... We’re told that we must take no action, but then heavily trained using difficult and strenuous activity... So it’s a surprise to me that the paradox of Qi being purely a process and a substance at the same time is so unbelievable to some...

I see stagnation has set in and the autopilot is taking over...

Yes - kind of. Although I'd call it density. It behaves as a substance - not IS a substance. Being precise here matters. But you're right that it has substance like qualities... Yin Qi has magnetic qualities (but isn't magnetism) and Yang Qi has electric qualities (but isn't electricity). Sounds to me like Vonkrankenhaus hasn't come across any real practitioners of Qi emission - but this stuff exists and is no big deal once you get into certain circles. Also lots and lots of fraudsters too.

I so just wanted to leave it at 'change-information in action' But that's unfair. Qi is already change-information in action - nothing drives it - although it is borne of Dao, yes. Qi is influenced by conditions or qualities... For example, let's take Ride's post: Trauma in the body - on the level of Qi - has the quality of stagnation... it's constricted and immobile - this information of stuckness is physically manifested as tightness in the tissues and muscles of particular areas of the body... on the level of consciousness, it will appear as a psychological trait that cannot be easily let go of. If you affect actual change on the level of consciousness like Ride managed to, then the qi will flow and the tissues will release. In the Daoist arts, making the change on the level of consciousness is considered risky, because it's very easy to 'reattach' to the trauma in a slightly different way, causing the qi to constrict again... If you affect change on the level of Qi then you won't even know you're letting go of a trauma - you'll just have a release (and usually a small spontaneous movement) and qi will flow and both the physical and consciousness aspects will be let go of without even realising.

Yes. But not just the body - everything. Qi is the information behind change or transformation - whether in your body or in the environment. Everything is changing...

Change-information in action

Tantra has nothing to do with the focus on pleasure... nothing to do with sex... It is the path of transformation through the use of 'substances' underlying states of consciousness. Alchemical Daoism is a Tantric path for example.

It may not seem this way, but answering the question "what is qi?" has already lead you into a trap. The trap was actually set by Aristotle... But without getting into history, consider the assertion that "grass is green"... seems obvious - but what if you're colour blind? What if the colour of the light shining on the grass is orange? What if "you" aren't human - but perhaps a snake or a dog or a cricket... So, in reality, all we can say about grass is that "grass appears 'green' to the human eye under specific light conditions"... Perhaps it's Von's engineering/scientific background that has him reaching for an "is" for Qi... Actually, he's quite right in some contexts... Qi isn't some magical substance or 'force'... But similarly, Qi is not just the interplay of polarities... Qi is a word that is used. It means different things under different circumstances and within different contexts. The Qi of Feng Shui is different to the Qi of Taiji which is different to the Qi of Qigong which is different to the Qi of Chinese Medicine etc etc... Qi is not a descriptive term - but an operational term. As in it's a term that is useful to use to describe certain processes. The term Qi isn't true, as much as it's useful. The most 'accurate' explanation of Qi that I have is "Qi is transformative information in action"... not particularly useful, but 'true'... But there is not reason to try to get a 'truer' picture of these arts... The mental model of Daoist arts is already perfect... there's no point in translating things into more 'scientific' forms - this isn't science in the same way - it's not looking for truth, but utility. So in terms of contexts... at certain stages of Neigong, when the Qi is sufficiently dense, it behaves just like a substance. IS it a substance - no - it's still 'change-information', but to all intents and purposes it is also a substance (just as light is also particles)... If you've ever experienced the movement of Yin Qi or Yang Qi in your body - or had it transmitted, there is no question about its substance-like properties. In fact in Alchemical thinking, everything has an underlying 'substance'... or an aspect that appears as if it's a substance... Including the mind and consciousness.

The words and their meaning have lead one to the specific end that I mentioned... Words are easily spoken. Conduct shows the true virtue of a person. Precisely. But ok - about the words... who here isn’t pleasure oriented already?

Meaningless drivel to me. Does not represent tantra as far as I’m concerned - and it’s coming from a sex and power obsessed alcoholic A great example of what happens when you mix spiritual cultivation with wanton pursuit of your base desires...