TowardTheosis

On 10/1/2023 at 4:36 AM, diggorydogood said:

 

I’m not understanding what you’re doing exactly so I need to take a step back and ask some follow up questions.

To understand:

1. At some point in the day you are performing what is considered stillness (for some period of time). How long are you doing stillness

2. You go to the gym to support your physical body and that you are feeling fatigued quicker.

3. You then place focus on the LDT because hey you felt heat and such and assert mentally hey if I focus here I won’t feel as tired

4. You finish a set and then an hour later you feel fatigued again

 

Is that correct?

Also

 

What is your diet consisting of? Sleeping pattern? Stress? Sexual health? Sensations you feel during meditation? Physical sickness (e.g. cold, flu,) and etc. All of this and then some affect on your practice especially in the beginning of your practice.

 

Generally, you’re not necessarily supposed to feel heat radiating over your body during stillness per se. It’s supposed to ideally stay in the lower dan tian so the location of the heat should be minimal and at that area (amongst a few other sensations I won’t really get into). But it sounds like you have some deviation. Have you gone to an acupuncturist locally so they can inform you which organs are out of balance?

 

Are you over concentrating during stillness? Because it sounds like to me you’re not entering stillness you may be entering the void which again it happens to everyone in the beginning. It also seems like you don’t have a proper anchor to the area either and you may be assuming what the area is supposed to feel like and what it anchors to (just from reading a bit of the book you referenced for the actual practice itself).

 

My suggestion here is to find an acupuncturist and potentially get some herbs. I think for most starting out what you’re feeling is health related with knowing the proper practice and proper breathing method. But also, I think you need to understand how to properly focus on the LDT and what sensation should be your anchor.

 

 

These are also not excellent results nor what success of the LDT practice looks like at all. Again I refer to any Daoist texts which actually describe what happens with proper meditation and what should occur:

 

 

Perhaps you should read a few of them and come back. For your own education.

Yes, that is an accurate summary of the fatigue incident following my weightlifting practice. The fatigue always follows my practice of centering in the LDT regardless of whether or not I've been involved in any strenuous physical practice beforehand, but I do think that this specific incident highlights some useful pain points. 

1. My diet is not well regulated. I do ensure that I get adequate amounts of protein for muscle growth and other macronutrients to support recovery following my workout, but I also have a penchant for sweets and junk foods. I've read that successful meditation rests on what we choose to consume. If so, then I am positive that I'm not giving my body optimal fuel for these practices. 

2. Sleep has become something of a source of stress. I am recently married, and my wife and I have had to adjust to our very different sleeping patterns now that we share the same home. Before, I'd wake up like clockwork at the same time every morning and go to sleep with the same precision. Now, that's not the case. 

3. Did I mention that I was newly married and cohabitating? Stress levels are a little bit elevated lol. 

4. I am inclined to believe your diagnosis of qi deviation. Prior to converting to Orthodoxy and renouncing elements of my past, I was involved in a wide array of disjointed energetic/spiritual practices with absolutely no consistency or input from an instructor. I would not be in any way surprised if I caused harm to myself with the deviation in this practice being the latest symptom of having done so. 

I'll seek out the help of a qualified acupuncturist to try to address imbalances. 

On 10/1/2023 at 2:12 AM, Pak_Satrio said:

Ok first of all stop doing this.

 

Don’t mix meditation and physical exercise or other of your daily activities.

 

You should focus on your lower dantien during meditation (use the dhyana mudra to help) and the lower dantien is located around 2-3 inches below your navel, and inside your body, not at your navel.

Thank you for your counsel. 

I can certainly refrain from mixing my meditation practice with any other activity, but I'll admit a little bit of confusion on this point. I was under the impression that centering the mind in the LDT while engaged in physical activity was ideal in that it allowed one to keep the mind stable even while the body was in motion. Is this not the basis of how practitioners are taught to move in Karate and in other martial arts with a spiritual component? 

On the other hand, it's more than probable that I'm not focusing at the correct center since my practice is almost exclusively a product of self study. I remain open to correction in all things. 

8 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

The screen-name is "toward-theosis"  Theos... a greek god concept.... towards a greek god concept appears to be "what they're doing exactly"

 

You may not have had a chance to see my message in the Welcome forum, but I am an Orthodox Christian. Theosis is intimately connected to our concept of salvation and would be roughly analogous to the Western Christian concept of divinization.

That aside, I meditate and practice qigong to maintain my health. These wellness practices are not directly connected to my spiritual path. 

3 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Can you please describe exactly how you are practicing? Every step you are taking 

Please reference my most recent reply to @ChiDragon. I'm happy to provide any additional details as needed.

4 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Besides focusing on your LDT, you have not described what were you practicing. May I ask what were you trying to accomplish?

Forgive me for not providing these details in my original post. 

I dabble in meditation with the LDT as a focus. The bulk of my practice is taken from Yong Hua's Chan Handbook where he details Chan methods of developing samadhi using that energy center. Energy flows where attention goes, per the aphorism, and Yong Hua encourages his students to anchor the mind at the navel to train both the accumulation of qi and concentration. 

The fatigue that I mentioned always follows (after about an hour or so) my placement of my attention on the LDT regardless of what I happen to be doing beforehand, but I'll speak on the most recent instance to hopefully shine some light on what may be going on. This particular incident took place at the gym. I weightlift to support my health, and that day saw me moving through a fairly heavy assortment of compound exercises. I was tired, but I sensed that much of my fatigue was the result of my mind being scattered rather than my body being fully exhausted. 

So, in between sets, I placed my index finger just at my navel to help guide my focus to that point. Initially, things were great. I felt a renewed sense of power coursing throughout my body accompanied by a nimble concentration that empowered me to knock out the remainder of my exercises without any obstacles and to make my way back home. 

It was only later that things took a turn for the worse. 

12 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

ironically what you think to be

are in fact excellent results.  This what success in the LDT practice looks like. So if you dont want to enjoy it, i guess you can sabotage it and call it a remedy;)

Would you be able to expound a bit more on what you mean?

Bringing attention to the LDT is (again, from what I gather in my own research) supposed to yield the benefits I referenced above, but is it your assertion that the heavy fatigue is somehow also a part of that constellation of benefits? 

Is the fatigue a necessary stage of developing the LDT?

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

because

it gets stuck down there

What then is the remedy? Is it that my mind is stuck or that my qi does not flow well?

From what I've gathered via self study, the Lower Dan Tien (LDT) is the primary governor of the body's qi supply. It acts as a distribution system to all of the other energy centers of the body and has a huge impact on the body's overall health. My personal practice seems to affirm these details. Whenever I bring my mind down to the LDT, I do feel an immediate sense of relaxation, increased warmth throughout my limbs, a stronger sensation of strength in my legs and overall musculature, and a slowing down of the racing, monkey mind. 

Wonderful benefits. 

These benefits do not come without detrimental consequences. They last for about a good hour or so, but once they dissipate I am left in a weakened state that I cannot explain. 

I become extremely tired and groggy. My mind slows to the point of dullness, and I find that it is difficult for me to maintain any decent degree of concentration. There's a bout of pronounced lethargy that just seems to overtake me. I become emotionally apathetic, my social charisma disappears, and without jumping into TMI territory my sexual energy also evaporates. I have a very difficult time performing after meditating on the LDT if I haven't taken a rejuvenating nap first. 

Would any of you more experienced practitioners have some idea as to why this happens? 

@Trunk  @ChiDragon 

Thank you both for the warm welcomes! 

Good Afternoon All, 

I'm usually rather terrible at introducing myself in online communities. I never know exactly what to say, and my inner critic is almost never satisfied enough with my writing to post without a burdensome amount of ego interference after the fact. I suppose I should consider this first post as a practice ritual to combat those egoic tendencies.

All that aside, I've been a casual reader of the Tao Bums for quite some time now, and I'm eager to interact with the many learned souls who feel likewise drawn to this group. 

I am, as you might have guessed from my handle, an Orthodox Christian. The path toward Christ has been a very long and meandering one, but it suffices to say that I've made enough spiritual detours in my past to know definitively that this is where I'm supposed to be. Having said that, I have massive respect for just about every other spiritual paradigm out there. My faith does not prevent me from acknowledging the common humanity of my fellow brothers and sisters, the commonalities between our respective paths, and the potential for friendship arising out of a healthy appreciation for the energetic arts. 

I am a qigong practitioner (mostly for medicinal purposes). Since my practice is largely self taught, I don't have a great deal of opportunity to chat with other practitioners in my everyday life. Hopefully, the Tao Bums will provide what I lack in that respect, and I hope that I can in turn contribute something of value to this forum. 

Please call me Robert, and know that it is my distinct honor to be here. 

Thank You,