whocoulditbe?

how indeed

4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I'm reminded of one of my college triumphs.  A professor was discussing a short story by Kafka, a short story I was supposed to have read but hadn't.  Perhaps because I hadn't done the reading, my mind was not clouded by my own opinions and I could clearly see the direction the teacher wanted to take the class discussion.  After a few of my classmates answered a question incorrectly, I raised my hand and commented on the motivation of a character.  Bingo!  I got it right, at least according to our professor, without having the least idea what I was talking about.  My ballsiest classroom moment.

This is how I try to approach most disucssions. Happy new year, btw!

3 hours ago, Cobie said:

If you had to suffer from any personality disorder, you'd prefer it to be the one with the same name as a flower.

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

But heaven forbid ....   can anyone find a religion , or monastary or sect within a religion that has a perfect faultless leader and no internal interpersonal problems , or some level of corruption present ?

The virtue is always with the followers, better to have imaginary or involuntary leaders.

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

My point is  , no we are NOT doing okay 

Of course, but focusing too much on fast-moving international crises can make you forget the changes that need to be made on a personal level, and despair is a comfy excuse for apathy.

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

napalmed children, Gaza, irreversible environmental destruction

I'm not sure the news cycle makes people any less passive in practice.

19 minutes ago, zoe said:

I had a pretty bad period where I think I'd become nihilistic enough to decide things like duty, compassion, etc. could only be a result of desire and self-interest.

In a way they are a result of those things, but Y being the result of X can be reframed as Y overcoming X, X revealing itself to have always been Y, and so on.

15 minutes ago, zoe said:

what else is there for will to respond to but desire?

Responding to desire means responding to lack, distress, jealousy, regret, etc., but there are other feelings that call for action: duty, compassion, respect for beauty, etc.

Imo there are recipes for enlightenment. You wouldn't imagine that the knowledge of a cake recipe alone can create a cake, but it does help. The line drawn between the method we are given and the materials we come with is ultimately imaginary.

16 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

A pickpocket can easily spot other pickpockets.  I suppose a delusional person can spot people with same trait easier than others.

There are plenty of unenlightened beings who have denied the enlightenment of the Buddha, pickpockets who identify an innocent pedestrian as a pickpocket.

Just now, Daniel said:

Maybe.  But isn't the urgency a delusion?

A more useful one than sloth.

@Daniel might be right, something the belief in universal ignorance adds to the realization of personal ignorance is protection for the ego. On the other extreme, you could meditate on the possibility that you are the only deluded being left in existence, and imagine that everyone except you is an enlightened being who appears for your sake. But that point of view would be less compassionate and equally narcissistic.

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

The speaker is not including themself as ignorant. 

The appeal of the rhetoric about universal delusion is that it includes the speaker. It enhances the urgency of practice, while also providing built-in forgiveness for inadequacy to it.

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

there it is... the classic buddhist insult against any who disagree...

or who agrees.

The question is whether you can seperate desire from will. Arguably desire doesn't produce volitional action on its own, just an awarness of lack coupled with distress. You need a will to respond to it. The most powerful desires are the ones that can never be directly fulfiled, but lead to other behaviours aimed at filling the gap. Art could be one of those behaviours.

On 12/12/2023 at 11:32 PM, Cobie said:

red suits in chimneys
if they get too enlightened, 

they will get stuck there.

they will get stuck there,

all those vain thoughts, in my chest,

that were never meant.

1 hour ago, Mark Foote said:

rice flies everywhere

for two weeks--then gone.  The lake,

still alive this fall

Still alive this fall.

Darkness needs its spectators,

Lest spring bloom in vain.

IDK many specific recipes but it goes well in a lot of dishes. I need to use it more. I used to love crystallised ginger as a sweet. 

IMO history shows that the human body can thrive on a wild diversity of diets, though that's partly dependent on environment, genetics and lifestyle. Becoming vegetarian just takes a but of adjusting, and it's worthwhile even on a personal level. Being able to honestly conceive of what you consume, what sustains your body, without that triggering thoughts of death and violence is a great psychological benefit.

There are all sorts of metaphysical conceptions of gods and God, but when it comes to devotion and practice none of that seems to matter. If we are too weak to understand the nature of the forces we depend on, or how they individuate, our sincerity in reaching out to them must override the inaccuracy.

5 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Have you read Nietzsche, or are you aware of his concept of unter/ubermench? I just started «thus spoke zarathustra,» but i am superfically familiar with his philosophy. I think it could be relevant for Your search of meaning and your view on ethics. Shame his repution has  been so besudled by the third reich.

I read the Genealogy and Beyond Good and Evil years ago. Nietzsche's writing might as well be a mirror in which everyone sees what they set out to see. The one aphorism that has stuck with me is "tethered heart, free spirit."

The system is simple because that makes it a better vehicle for the other things. Like, a qigong sect is the closest thing you can get to an independent political party in China. The main point of  Falun Gong is not the practice, which is true of many religions for good and bad.