Brad M

I have this vague memory of being a child, sitting in my parents living room in a one piece pair of pajamas. Everything was new. I had no conceptions of what anything should look like, or any conceptions about myself or society. It was just me, coexisting and being with my loving family. For me, that is what reality is. Over time, that childhood presence has since been clouded by a complex web of conceptions and mental patterns that have built up my mind. Yet, when the clouds break, the same child emerges. The reality of this world is you sitting in your backyard like a child, admiring the energy of a magnificent tree with no reflection on what it means or entails. In other words, this life is very real (and wonderful), its our conceptions of it that are empty.

My experience is the opposite. I dream about people, then wake up and the world is full of aliens. : ) Turns out, my alien family and friends are pretty cool though.

These quotes are great. One thought I had on "effort" is that great satisfaction can be gotten in life through hard work, discipline, getting things done, and accomplishing something great. From these quotes, one might get the impression that no effort equals no doing, and visa versa. My view is a little different, that unlocking open awareness is the path to achieving ones ultimate potential in life, basically by doing without doing. I am still monkeying with the lock, however : )

My understanding is that the status of Daoism as a "religion," rather than a philosophy, dates back at least to the 13th century, when following a visit from the Quasi-Daoist Monk Ch'ang Ch'un in the winter of 1223, Chinggis Kahn issued a decree (later rumored to be false) giving Daoists tax exempt status. That decree was later recognized by the Yuan dynasty. During that time, there were serious political and philosophical disputes between the Buddhists (the favored religion of the Yuan) and the Daoists, and absent tax exempt status, the Daoist monks would have had a much harder time getting their wu wei on. : ) Interestingly, following much political turmoil between the two sects, in the summer of 1255, Mongke Kan decided that the philosophical issues between the two had to be settled in a public debate. That debate was held and the Daoists were allegedly defeated (although they did not admit defeat). Shortly thereafter there was a second debate in 1258, in which Confucians were established as the referees. And, big suprise, the Daoists were soundly defeated again. Got this from a book called Imperial Nomads by Luc Kwanten.

Sometimes the thing you are looking for is found when you stop searching. Look around. Life is amazing, whatever path it puts you on. Buddhist philosophy is just one of many pairs of sneakers you can wear while walking. Don't lose sight of the forest over the sneakers. : )

My view lately has been bit more pessimistic, though I appreciate the positivity. I tend to view suffering and pain as being necessary. Something one must grin and bear (with a positive attitude, as you say). Labeling painful experiences as “not suffering”, though wont make them go away.

Much to be said about "artistic" happiness. Loosing oneself in the pursuit of the artistic expression of life. Hope everyone is having a good day! Pass on the good vibes!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92194-z interesting article (which I just skimmed) about fascia to this point.

This got me thinking about Epicureans; found this quote on wikipedia: Funny, I had always misunderstood Epicureanism to be pleasure seeking hedonism; though it is really more of a middle ground philosophy.

Not speaking for Buddhism, but I know no answer other than to just suck it up and accept that life is full of pain and tribulation. I'd not trust anyone who says otherwise. By acting diligently and authentically, however, a lot of life's pitfalls can be avoided. That to me is the point of it all, though I am constantly digging myself out anyway.

watching the watcher hearing sounds of listening feelings feel themselves sensing the senses a painting is painted a canvas floods with color painter paints with brush in hand space dissolves to black and white till one remains Still the painter paints

Sorry for this. Was not really meaning very much by those posts nor trying to attack a viewpoint, so apologies if they elicited controversy or feelings. I think I was trying to say maybe I was wrong (which is usually 50% of the time)...

Yes. I have seen drug addicts on the street. I have worked with mentally unstable people. While I have not met them, I have many questions about our world leaders. Is a drug addict living on the street deluded? The addict is certainly not living up to his potential, but then again addiction is a terrible thing. The addiction will crush him causing immense suffering, which only intensifies the addiction. If he does not break the cycle, it will probably kill him. Alternatively he might recover, and perhaps, as many people having overcome addiction, will gain great insight and perhaps some form of enlightenment from the process. Does my opinion of him being deluded, or not, matter in this process? I cant however quite come up with a similar example for world leaders : ) Also, I was not trying to dispute anything you said, nor meaning too much by these posts other than having fun equivocating on the word delusional. I think people object to the term--as it is most often used as a derogative--not necessarily the concept of the way you were meaning it. I'd also encourage people not to take offense so easily--takes just as much ego to take offense as it does giving it.

Not meaning too much by it other than life is real. For example, if you accept life is real, then you are not deluded. One might posit that their composite person (i.e. aggregates) are empty null, void, illusory, etc., the life they are living is still very real and meaningful. Nihilism is a sad disease. Whether others might accept certain concepts which I happen to believe in deeply, it does not distract from the meaningfulness of their own lives, in which they will find their own paths to the end state, however many eons or whatever form it might take. Therefore, how can we be deluded so long as we are living.

I usually pinch myself : ). I think the point I was trying to make is: we are all awake, at least while we are not sleeping. One ceases to be deluded when one accepts the reality of living. We all have our different paths and places in the world, and fundamentally are dealing with our own "delusions" and suffering in our own lives in our own ways. There is no single right or wrong (or deluded) path; in the end karma/Dao guides. In other words, we are all equally perfect the way we are (however delusional we may unknowingly be).