Seeking

So grateful for this interaction. Even though it grated on me as it occurred. Everything I said is valid, I still stand by all of it. Whats different is I appreciate the irritation you provided as it caused me to reflect then meditate and I made an immense leap in awareness that I wouldn’t have without this.

Sometimes speed bumps slow you down. Other times they are ramps that help you bend the laws of time and space to achieve the seemingly impossible in an instant. Thank you all for your part in this.

I will say though, those of you who pat yourselves on the back because you removed all the contentious (to your current level of perception at least) elements from this forum really did yourself a disservice. In terms of evolution, insight and cultivation as this all illustrates so well as I gained an immense amount of clarity from this friction. 

That made me a better person all round than I would’ve been without. Just imagine what you could’ve become had you not chased all the dragons out of town. Their presence could’ve trained you to be so much more if you let it and weren’t so quick to blame others for your inner interpretations of them.

If you old members are reading and lurking please come back and join the movement. Everyone wins when we all do what we do best. Remember if you’re “triggered” thats all on you, not the other person because its your inner realm. You should already be aware of that if you claim to cultivate but as I mentioned previously, lot of Chapstick surface level lip service flying around these days.

6 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Why not try to make your other posts more interesting? 

Instead of seeking attention this way, I mean. 

 

Well, yes, that is how the times are right now. 

Makes for less screen time and more practice time. 

It wasn't posted to seek attention, at least not in that way. I've already explained that I'm not going over it again if you didn't get it the first time.

If you allow yourself to be shaped by the times and follow in ways blatantly false you are in effect betraying your own integrity. If thats an acceptable thing for you then have at it. There's plenty (un)happy to join you and I'll stand alone if needs be.

3 minutes ago, steve said:

To me, words and the feelings of others count.

 

Nothing to do with political correctness in my mind, that's simply a blanket excuse for a lack of empathy and civility.

I'm not personally offended by your comments but I have this protective instinct that often leads me to engage when I feel others are being targeted, especially vulnerable groups - in this case women and the LGBTQ community.

This forum was filled with misogynistic loud-mouths with over-inflated spiritual egos for a long time who made it an unpleasant place to share and interact with people.

I think this is why I'm a bit reactive to a few of your recent posts. 

I joined the mod team a year and a half ago to change the tenor here and I think we did a good job.

It may be slow and quiet, echoey even... but I think there are those here who value a safe space to share intimate and profound feelings and experiences on their spiritual path. For me that is a worthwhile trade off.

Whether you stay or go is of little consequence to me really but I'll respond as I see fit. 

 

 

So you're a social justice warrior then? Someone who goes around looking for things to be offended for on other peoples behalf? No wonder you're "on the internet" as its the only place your kind are. Real life NPCs unaware that they are unaware. On a spiritual forum. Oh the irony.

Does "changing the tenor" mean running this place into the ground because as far as I can tell there about 10 people posting on here these days. Well done. Hitler would be proud with how you cleansed the place of "undesirables" (as you define them). Do you even see how dictatorial you sound? Either way I'm glad you shared because it explains why this forum feels so bombed out and depleted.

From lurking and searching every now and then it seemed to be vibrant, filled with discussion and lots of experience. In reality its pretty much the opposite of that which means in between then and now something happened and you just filled in that blank.

Well done. Here's to the next 10,000 posts in your "safe space". Just typing that makes me want to puke. How can any fully grown person even deign to use such a term? You know the inference right? That everywhere else is perceived as threat so what does that say about your internal world, emotional development and overall resilience?

It seems this forum had a civil war at some point long past and drove what made it interesting out leaving the losers to claim a win by sheer default. No offense to those who aren't all riled up by a simple spoilered, warned and generally "safe-spaced" meme as I'm sure you're cool but the rest of you've who replied up in arms seem like a bunch of tools just looking for a reason to be unhappy.

Glad we had this conversation though as I've realized you're not the kind of people I want to be anywhere near. Misery is contagious so I'm going to log out now and be on my merry way.

This is not the congregation I'm seeking... May you find happiness and I truly mean that as all I know how to be is genuine.

In a nutshell:

Life is hell and everyone dies.

There it is. Distilled to its purest, shiny wisdom.

Of course Big B doesn't say it that directly but he doesn't mince his words either because that is the message he repeated over and over. Hoping people would get it into their thick skulls. If you don't you'll get another go round on the wheel and have another chance. Rinse and repeat until you finally get what he means.

9 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

A person that can distill something from pretty much any religion is hardly drowning in ignorance.

Its not really that hard. Most things aren't but people certainly like to complicate them. A lot of that comes from this tap dancing around what you think people might want to hear/not hear then self editing accordingly. Its why I prefer to just speak directly.

Sheesh, I can't believe this response from you all from a simple amusing picture, even after explaining it to death which killed any humour that was there. There is a distinctly dour tone to so many of the posts and I've just met it directly here and it feels quite icky.

Do you lot just lurk, waiting for something to be mad at because its the most response I've had to any post and that is quite sad.

9 minutes ago, steve said:

 

No interest in change or growth?

In things that count, yes. In self censorship and the editing it creates as you pussy foot around using politically correct euphemisms and other linguistic games? No. Why are you so bent out of shape by the quote? If you personally are offended by it just say and I will leave right now, forget the 24 hours.

9 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Both, clearly.

On their end it reveals integrity in this instance and on yours, petulant immaturity and a seeking for attention.

 

 

 

If that is how you define integrity then I don't know what to say. Petulant immaturity I'll give you as that comes with the territory. I'm quite dismayed that this, out of all I've posted, is whats garnered so much attention and that speaks volumes on the community here and what gets them clicking reply. Maybe something to reflect on all the way up there on your high horse?

Like I said, I didn't come here to teach but learn. If I'm drowning in ignorance why are the wise men of this forum throwing breeze blocks at me?

Whose level of evolution does that speak on? Mine or theirs?

OK Boomer.

Come on in, the waters warm and the reception frosty!

Could you speak more on your experience of the energy forms of the body please? What are they? How did you feel them? What changes did you gain and insights did you come away with?

Thanks

If you take the entirety of pretty much any religion in the world it can be distilled to "Treat everyone how you wanted to be treat yourself". The rest is just commentary and expansion on that. Reading the earlier fake Buddha quotes passed off as the real thing inspired me to lampoon it with an obvious absurdity.

The absurdity however contains the exact same truth (albiet expressed in a more profane way) as the distilled wisdom above. It was all quite amusing in my head anyway as it tied together so many disparate points in quite a pithy way. The fact that it was hidden and warned ultimately means those making a song and dance of it are abnegating their own sense of autonomy and personal responsibility and thats yet another blatant case of ignoring Buddhas way.

Clear enough?

Just now, Cleansox said:

It's probably too early for a ban, but challanging mods is rarely a winning strategy.

Its not a challenge, just a statement of fact. I lurked before and mainly searched the db for insights and didn't realize quite how dead this place was till I signed up. To say the pace is glacial would be an understatement so I'm fine either way as I didn't realize quite how echo chambery/cliquish it was till posting and I wish to learn by asking questions about things I want to know from those who do.

If I've offended the handful of people active on here the I'll leave the site voluntarily as that was never my intent but nor will I change the way I am.

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

We are no deeper or purer than those we denigrate...

 

 

Yes "they" do...  

 

 

 

It is good to practice with a mirror 

 

I do believe these are the "thinly veiled insults" your friend spoke of previously. Have you ever considered getting "off the internet" because the time and effort you put into 9000 posts could've got you to the promised land and back. Just a thought.

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Hi.

 

I've been a practicing Buddhist for more than 20 years but although I belong to a 'sangha' peripherally I don't attend any group meetings and so on - and actually when I did I didn't really like them.  Some of this is because I live in the West and Western Buddhism is beset by a number of issues and while I am committed to dharma as a way this doesn't mean I want to make it part of my social life.

 

I found that many western Buddhists are just frustrated Christians - or to put it another way they adopt Buddhism without ever addressing their preconceptions about what it means to be spiritual and so on.  In fact quite a few think they are practicing an atheist religion - and/or look at Buddha as a kind of Eastern Socrates both of which are wide of the mark.

 

There's a huge tendency also to want to market Buddhism to certain target audiences and sell it as a therapy - mindfulness and so on - or to focus on the admittedly striking cultural aspects such as Tibetan art and so on.  It is kind of understandable but ultimately irrelevant.

 

However in the type of Buddhism I practice (Vajrayana) there is a lot of praying and devotion is cultivated ('mo gu' in Tibetan).  It took me a long while to understand why this might be.  To give a quick background to why - there are three types of perception.  The first is object based where we deal with things as in the ordinary world in terms of function and form, the second is 'imaginative' where we deal with whole images such as in dreams and visions etc. and the third is called pure perception where the true nature (dharmakaya) is revealed.  Pure perception is looking directly at reality without any intermediary and is non-conceptual .... and thus beyond also any kind of serial mentation or object orientation.  In the first two kinds of perception we have vehicles which guide and orient us - such as name/form, ideas and concepts, images and so forth.  But in the third there is no such anchoring - but the yogi practitioner needs to be able to navigate in this kind of open space and it is aspiration or intent that does this.  Prayer - as in Guru Yoga or even just normal refuge prayers is a way of focussing aspiration towards the goal - the Buddha mind, dharmakaya ... the union of wisdom and compassion etc.

 

That for me at any rate is why Buddhists pray and prostrate ...and though it looks externally just like a religious act, internally it is perhaps something different.

 

 

Thank you, that is a very interesting response. The point about frustrated Christians is interesting as Buddhism seems to be the default go to for so many who drift away from that way of thinking. Also you're so right about its "exoticism" as that ties in with the diluted Western version and its marketing. At least they know who they are aiming for, eh?

Personally from my (limited) experience of it they've over complicated what was intended as a direct path to enlightenment. There are massive disparities between what the man himself said/do and what others do. Like the blind leading the blind in many respects and people are too invested in this image and hype to see the reality. That being:

How many enlightened people has this (or any other method, throwing it out there) produced since they were shared with the world?

Its a uncomfortable truth but a truth nonetheless. The mark of madness is doing the same thing again while expecting different results.

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Moderator’s Note:

 

This is not a “sense of humor” thing.  Humor can and often is used as a foil for insulting others, or their beliefs/ideas. I do hope YOU will reconsider how you present yourself here - an attitude of nonchalant bravado accompanied by thinly veiled insults is certainly not what one should be projecting, and yet that’s how some of your posts come across. 

 

 

Of course it is. If you can't see the joke (and truth) in this then I don't know what to say. I signed up to discuss things that interest me. I don't pull punches and am known for being quite blunt. Its interesting that you think I've got "an attitude of nonchalant bravado" so thanks for that insight.

I'll give you 24 hours to decide whether to ban this username or sit down and be quiet as I've no intent of foregoing my nature on your, or anyone elses, account.

If you want an echo chamber, have at it. You've already done quite well in that respect it seems. Discussion is born from people having different views and wishing to learn from one another. Otherwise what is the point in having a forum?

24 hours. Don't think too hard. Go with what feels good. But most of all, remember what Buddha said as it applies so perfectly in this situation.

I really like this quote from Buddha. It sums up the entirety of his teaching with a simple, snappy saying that just rolls off the Tongue.

Warning. Do not open if easily offended, prone to hysterics or if you lack entirely in a sense of humour

Thank you, thats exactly what I was thinking. Much like Lipstick Lesbians there are lots of Chapstick Buddhists meaning they only cling to the image and apply a surface veneer of insight to appear "spiritual/enlightened". Lip service if you will and in the process disrespect not only the man but also the whole point of his teachings.

Its interesting to see the cult of personality angle was that rife while he was still alive. Given time its only magnified. Like I said, they spin empty wheels thinking they're getting somewhere and clap each other on the back for their "progress" (or lack thereof) and how awesome they are at being spiritual.

Granted the nature of the ego is to be slippery but it just makes me wonder. Can so many swathes of people have so little insight? The guy outlined a step by step plan for getting there, what to see, what to expect and what to avoid if you lacked the wherewithal to do it yourself. This article refers to "Toothless Buddhism" and makes a very good point about the McDonaldization of it all:

https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/diluted-buddhism/

And its of this that I speak and hope others that read will comment too.

That is very good and just what I mean. It came up in a conversation and everyone had totally different interpretations of what it actually is in real world application to a form. I thought it would be interesting to hear what everyone on here interpreted it as.

As you said there are different levels which create different meanings/subtleties. A very intriguing aspect of cultivation as its ever present invisibility means its often overlooked so lets draw attention to it and discuss the meaning. The correct use of open/close can also mean the difference between an effective practice and a complete waste of time because once you feel the difference you quickly realize why its the key.

I find it odd that its spoken of or elaborated so little. I do think that those who get it naturally think others will as well. Those who don't on the other hand have no idea of what they're missing. This makes it a very fruitful discussion as one learns and teaches simultaneously. 

I'd prefer to here people express their insight/interpretation in their own words as it relates to their own experience. It generates far better discussion that way, wouldn't you agree? Especially as we are talking about the internal foundations of a practice here and ones so easy to overlook by beginners.

Yes. By design. Not nature.

Edited the first post to reflect context. Always good to clarify.

Genuinely wondering about this as there seems to be no clear cut definition/process of these two fundamental terms. Intended in a Qigong context but feel free to interpret however you feel.

I think by sharing your own perspective you may be surprised by what others have to say. Together we can all learn as the basics are the key to everything. Don't you think?

A very interesting insight, approached from a totally different angle:

Mr. Pentagon was born blind. He did not perceive vision, with or without LSD. Instead, under the influence of psychedelics, he had strong auditory and tactile hallucinations, including an overlap of the two in a form of synesthesia, according to the report.

https://www.livescience.com/62343-psychedelics-lsd-effects-blind-people.html

This made me think of closed eye visualizations that looks like code from The Matrix crossed with a Kaleidoscope crossed with electromagnetic currents during deep states of meditation. These are apparently due to phosphenes but I suspect Anandamide (and the entire endocannaboid system) is at play due to the very short half life of the state and how the altered state must be maintained/trained. Anyone familiar with this experience?

There was a guy I know, heavily into Qigong, and he could "see" the energetic outlines of his limbs as he moved them in front of closed eyes during practice. He could also sense the distance to other people in group practice with unerring precision. This was a rarity in my research into cultivators inner processing but a very interesting one. He said the artist Alex Greys' style had underlying similarities with his perception but with a lot of artistic license thrown in:

Who knows, maybe those old time religious figure artworks with light beaming out of their body were more true than we believe?

A lot of people think this guy is a dumb meathead. That is generally because they missed so much of the nuance at play and couldn't see what was right in front of their face the whole time. This video of him recutting Rocky IV and reminiscing on the Heros Tale of Rocky and how it relates to the average man in street may change your mind:

Either way its worth a watch as this quote illustrates:

"Nothing is perfect. Life is about the management of problems. And whoever manages their problems the best, has the best life."

Yes, its very intriguing and segues nicely into another thought I had about why there are so many different types of qigong forms and why some click with us and others don't:

There is the ideally functioning human body, the physio-energetic Vitruvian Man say, where all of the channels are doing what they should as intended and its all balanced. We are all born that way but no one gets to adulthood with it all intact. So we collect blockages, impingement, muscular compensation etc.. and go on our way. This is our personality. Contrary to modern day belief a qigong form isn't made from the Earth upwards but used to descend from Heaven down, meaning:

The cultivator would attain a higher state of being, a temporary peak experience by whatever means, usually group induced. Then as they were coming back to Earth and their standard unVitruvian form their limbs and torso would move spontaneously to realign their perfect energy body with their imperfect flesh form with its holding patterns. The adepts started taking note of this process and voila, forms were born. Reversing these natural movements allowed them to "unwind" their physical ailments and realign with the great perfection in order to become the living embodiment of it.

Of course the modern world has this totally backwards, as it does with so many other things. Especially when it comes to spiritual development. At its fundamental this is the secret sauce of qigong and what it actually means. Its also why two people can practice the same form and have dramatically different results. The body of course knows this clearly, the mind, in most, is easily fooled and drags along a mute rumbling body which they cannot hear complain as they wave their arms around increasing their blockages.

23 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Either that or  the rest of them are off arguing with each other about politics and/or covid  

Both of them are distractions ergo anyone who invests his time arguing with another is a fool by their own tacit admission.

Ultimately you'll never convince anyone who has a contrary view because emotion is at play, not logic. Nor should you want or need to if you're truly in tune with your inner world.

Right wing + Left wing = bird brain. Of course most can't see the code but I'd hope those along the way would've spotted that already. There are many things of which a wise man might wish to be ignorant.