stirling

It comes from WAY before that. Read Joseph Campbell, "The Power of Myth", and "The Hero with a Thousand Faces". You can watch some of his discourses here: https://www.youtube.com/@JosephCampbellFoundation This might be pertinent:

I forget if you answered this question, but are you working with a doctor/psychiatrist/counselor on this issue?

Welcome to the board, Joseph! What are some of your more specific interests?

This is what the world has been waiting for.

The cycle of desire is the tension of attachment, and then release of that tension if desire is requited. Release might bring short term excitement or pleasure , but that release is short-lived - the mind is soon grasping after the next desire. This is the nature of suffering. Real joy comes from equanimity, the feeling of things being OK as they are with no attachment to them being different. The deeper your insight, the more you are just joyful regardless of what is happening. Desire is greatly attenuated, and every-day equanimity becomes the norm. Increased equanimity naturally comes from meditation practices where there is resting the mind in emptiness regularly - I'd suggest at least 20 minutes a day.

Practice suggestion: Turn one-pointedness inside out: Take a moment and stare at the back of your hand. Take in it's details - notice it's skin texture, color, the dark patches, or views or musculature that lie underneath. Now, ask yourself - did you have any real consciousness of the room you were in, or any environmental factors happening outside of your hand when you were concentrating on it? Was your view narrowly focused, only having room for the small, tight reality of your hand? Was the area around, or behind, your hand in sharp focus and full of detail, or is it difficult to really remember anything about it? Next, take your arms and put them straight out to either side so the hands are out of view. Turn your hands forward so you fingers are facing forward and wiggle them, slowly moving them until you can JUST see their movement in your peripheral vision, but now further. Continue wiggling them for a moment and take in the completeness of the room. Slowly drop your hands to your sides, but hold on to the panoramic but diffuse view of the room and it's contents. Hold that view for a few seconds. Were you aware of any individual objects, or was it just a panorama of color and light? Did any of the objects have a separateness from the background, or were the homogenous? Can you clearly remember the colors and shapes of the room as you saw it? Was it surprising to see how widely your eyesight could be? This panoramic view technique isn't commonly spoken of, but is common in the teachings of Tibetan teachers, and many Zen teachers. The act of "holding the room" in your gaze keeps the mind quiet. Rather than taking in any single point in concentration, one takes in the whole dharmakaya. One can see the unlabeled emptiness of the objects in the room, and see emptiness in action, though it helps to have this aspect pointed out. The point? Practicing like this is resting in enlightened mind. The unlabeled stillness, lack of objects, etc. is how enlightened mind sees reality, and naturally becomes the primary way of experiencing.

OK... so I think I want to see a "Dao According to Nungali" thread!

Karma belongs to you. Karma is the story you tell about yourself in the moment you occupy. It feels like the accumulation of your life (or lives) history. When something touches your karma you'll know, as it usually triggers a thought like, "I knew they wouldn't like me", or, "this always happens to me". Take out a piece of paper and start with the writing prompt, "I'm the kind of person who...". Your answers, positive or negative, are your karma. You might find that many will fit nicely into one of these slots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maladaptive_schemas There it is! Karma! It isn't mysterious, it is very familiar and intimate. Each of these stories you tell is a delusion that causes, or is caused by your attachment or aversion. Ask yourself each time you encounter something that stops you, makes you upset, causes you to feel incomplete: "What am I attached to or averse to? What do you I feel HAS to happen, or simply CANNOT happen. That is where you are stuck... what this moment of dharma is for. What is the story you tell about this situation that isn't true? Why do you tell it? Only you will know, though counseling can help. - Dharma is teaching. Your experience of the world is literally ALL teaching. The fabric of reality is constantly pointing out where you are stuck. Read the news and see. Try to assemble furniture from Ikea and see. Are you in a relationship? See! When you notice that your karma (story) sticks to something - a situation or a thought - pay attention. This is a moment when you could actually dissolve this karma/dharma interaction and end the suffering it causes. For homework that is non-denominational and easy to put into action: https://untetheredsoul.com/untethered-soul Make sure you FINISH IT and actually TRY what it suggests. Unfortunately there are thousands upon thousands of copies of this very thin but dharma-dense book available used, with un-cracked spines. I recommend it to all of my new students before you get into Buddhism proper.

After a year, it seems like your problems are ongoing, and none of the suggestions here are likely to work. I'm going to lock this thread and just suggest that you lean on proven, practical Western medicine for your issues, first and foremost. Go to a general practitioner and seek a counselor to talk about these issues and they might be able to help diagnose your issues and get you back on track. Thanks to all of the concerned Bums who have chimed in. _/\_ - Stirling (Mod)

One-pointedness is an ingredient and precursor - the laser-like focus - while samadhi is the larger practice and state of that intense focus creating space for insight and tranquility. You can break all of these things into many constituent parts, but I honestly don't find it very helpful. I think most people can use very simple instruction to come to satisfactory results, unless they are working on the jhana "project" or something. Some of my Zen colleagues just tell people to sit and watch their mind, and some actually manage to find samadhi from those instructions! I like to give a little more instruction than that... _/\_

It isn't mysterious: Put your attention on an object (pick an object, ANY object - your breath (or someone elses!), a crack in the floor, the ringing in your ears). The mind goes quiet, and attention only rests on the single object. You now have access concentration. The mind is still and concentrated. Congratulations! Most students can do this within a few weeks of practice or sooner, with guidance.

A brief experience of it, or a permanent experience? Just trying to clarify. Honestly, the terminology is a baffling. What does: Sounds like a glimpse? I'm trying to understand what you are getting at. Is it a KIND of awakening? A glimpse? What is awakened to? I'm not sure what the terminology is intended to point to. Not sure if this is similar - in Zen there are kensho and satori: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenshō Perhaps this bit is helpful: Here, jian would be "kensho" the glimpse of enlightenment, and xing would be the complete realization, "satori". After "satori", the realization gradually deepens until the "suchness" is a full time experience. Is this helpful?

I was taught Tonglen, which is also a visualization exercise, for the same purpose. I would agree with the teacher - whether you think you are literally manipulating things isn't that important. My experience is that such things can be much simpler. What is "Ming" and how does one lose it in this scenario? Huh. I have occasionally donated to teachers, but never paid for teachings directly. It's only my opinion, but everything one could need to know to become enlightened is available for free, including the teachers that might lead one there.

I wonder if we could agree on a definition of Xing? So, this is just a starting place, but what do you think of this article that contrasts the very views we are talking about? I have highlighted some points I find interesting... you probably have your own. From: https://www.sanctuaryoftao.org/blog/xing-and-ming Some questions about the paragraphs above, if you feel you'd like to answer: What does "awakened" mean here: Awakened to what? Is that awakening persistent? I suppose I may have accidentally developed Ming, but resting the mind in clarity and tranquility are effortless for me at this point. I agree that both of these aspects are important, and they are mentioned as important in mind training, but the tranquility isn't arrived at by any physical/dietary/body practice I am aware of, except perhaps working with the breath? Would you agree with this? Is "Entering the Void" the final stage of development, then, or? - I'm not sure what you mean here, honestly. You mean can I teleport to other locations in a something like a spirit body? Do you mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangsheng_(Daoism) From my perspective this body as a truly separate thing is a delusion. Regardless of what I do, it is impermanent like all things. What IS immortal is the awareness (which I would now identify as) that is omnipresent and exists outside of time and space.

Not one sided - I simply take issue with the idea that there any one tradition has some monopoly on realzation, what is realized, and how to do it, my friend. I have a couple of friends that I have met along the way who did NONE of these practices and had complete realization. One is actually a stoic! In my opinion practices don't precipitate realization, but they DO make us more prone to realization ( (possibly not ALL of them). The practice isn't the cause, however, in my experience the cause is the realization itself - a misconception clarified. Are practices valuable? Certainly anyone who has ever taken up meditation for at least 20 minutes most days will see within a month that they are calmer, less reactive, kinder, etc. I'm not against practice, at all, but the discussion is about realization.

The methods are unimportant. They point to the fruit, but are not ultimately the fruit of the path. I don't see any "approved" methods mentioned by Zhongli Quan. How would such a list be helpful without the "approved" methods being shared? Ultimately there are as many gates as there are people to find them.

The complete realization of non-duality is not a "state"... it doesn't come and go, and doesn't come in flavors. I has NO qualities. You can describe it in different ways, but those are descriptions, not the state itself. What is your percieved difference between "emptiness" and "yang shen"?

Forget Buddhism. Religions and practices make give you glimpses of enlightenment or realization, but are not the realization themselves. Realization is the permanent seeing of emptiness/Dao/Brahman in this moment. It isn't something that happens because you are practicing, It doesn't come and go - isn't a state... it is a permanent shift in how reality is seen and understood. The teacher I worked with was Gyatrul Rinpoche. He is pretty old now, but you might be able to meet him.

It is entirely possible to have complete realization without energetic work, though energetic phenomena may sometimes be present. It is fine, and indeed wise, to doubt the role of ANY practices as the "cause" of realization. It is obvious at the moment of realization, that there WAS no cause, though, paradoxically, practices seem to precede it. This may be more to do with intent than the actual practices themselves, except possibly (in my opinion) resting in "emptiness". Any number of interesting phenomena and practices can be present before realization - in the end it isn't a practice that precipitates realization. There IS no prescription.

I mean THIS one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuowang Done properly, you could have your hands wherever you like and still experience 100% presence and stillness. Such practice is complete being-ness, and is not different from enlightenment or the Dao itself, which is the point of the practice. With some pointing from a realized teacher, it is possible to completely realize the non-dual nature of reality in such practices. - I remain curious about your direct answer to my questions. I hope you will consider answering them.

Distinctions like this don't exist where there is realization. Do things change after realization? Of course, but ONLY in the aspect that they deepen insight - not that the practice changes the realization, it only deepens it. Nonsense. I have seen tummo taught by Tibetan masters that walked from Tibet to India in the 50's. Tummo is still being taught. Either way, it is not a central teaching. No amount of energy teachings will result in realization. There ARE teachings that are suggested after realization, but they don't change the initial insight, they only deepen it.

Keith, that's fantastic! You are blessed with a very "wise" (prajna) teacher. It is also a very Dao answer. Stop pushing! Actualize the fundamental point! Reminds me of a quote my teacher loves to use:

How do YOU see the DDJ? ...not the SAME, but pointing to the same thing. Zuowang is also the same. They are all ways of framing a much deeper understanding that is free of qualities. Non-duality isn't a "state" it is actually primordial - omnipresent. It is the Dao, it is Rigpa, it is Brahman - reality as it is. Truly, no "person" achieves it, and if they understand it fully (not just a glimpse, or something they see sometimes in meditation) the realization that there IS no doer. In fact, it also clarifies our relationship to time/space/self. Where there is complete and permanent realization, worrying about what happens next isn't high on the agenda. Things have a way of taking care of themselves (the Dao does that). The teachings aren't. What is revealed after practice and with insight is, in many traditions. Using your own definition, what do "enlightenment", the "Dao", the "dharmakaya", or "Xing" mean to you? What I mean by realization is "gnosis", which is quite different from "knowing": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis It's isn't something you read and understand, or even do a practice and come to understand, it is a sudden perspective shift that reveals permanently the non-dual nature of reality. It dashes all of your beliefs about how things are, and rewrites your understanding of reality. Where did I say that? I think you must have misunderstood me. Many Buddhists without realization do things they don't fully understand - the "goal" of realization isn't something an everyday student of any religion or set of practices can understand. Only someone who has realization could possibly have some understanding of non-duality. In any case, it isn't important to defend Buddhists. What we are talking about isn't Buddhist OR Daoist. What is it you are trying to get across with the video? I'm not sure I get your point. - I asked you this earlier: I'm asking again because I am really curious about how you might answer. ...sorry, one more: Do you meditate? Are you familiar with the Zuowang practice?

Dzogchen, Cha'n and Zen see NO details... no "devil". It is entirely possible to go directly to resting in Xing/Shikantaza/Dzogchen/Zuowang immediately, though it may take a realized teacher to point it out. Does the Dao De Ching have any "details" or intermediary practices? Great realization is happening all the time without ANY of that in Daoist and Buddhist practices. What is your real interest - chakras and energy channels or lifting the veil on the base nature of reality, and being in alignment and ending delusion? That was not the point of my quote from that teacher.. Please go back and look. You have reduced his teaching to that single point. It is the least of his points from a teaching perspective, so, yes it was you who brought his dream work. ..or mine, but you miss the point. He mentions this because it is a way to realize that identity is "empty". Further, it is his deeper teaching that enlightened mind is present in ALL mental states (waking/dreaming/deep sleep) that is truly useful, a realization I can verify myself. Fake Buddha? There AREN'T any. It's all Tao, my friend. What is it that you are hoping for with your practice?

This is a topic about where Daoism meets Buddhism. Seems like you'd expect to see some Buddhist content here, no? If you aren't interested in the topic, go post on a more fascinating topic perhaps?