Cobie

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Sound idea. I kind of decided, when I was young, to take 'this-whole-life' off. While no doubt your advice will be sound, I have decided not to read the neidan subforum. Now those are always worth reading.

That sounds so funny to Dutch ears.

I’m calling to the rescue pls @liminal_luke and partner.

無為 (wu2 wei2) do not behave like a civil servant; be yourself

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more virtue /ˈvəːtʃuː/ noun 1. behaviour showing high moral standards. "paragons of virtue"

The DDJ is about morality. See the title: 道 德 經 (DDJ) The Way of Virtue (Scripture).

No. BC means ‘before Christ’. Laozi (6the century BC) is after 詩 經 (11th to 7th centuries BC).

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To marvel at Chinese, the shishi poem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4 Shì-t

I had not finished yet. Done now.

I started looking at the English translations over 50 years ago. They differ! I wondered. Learned a tiny bit of Chinese, found that even the translations from characters differ. Learned about the nature of Classical a tiny bit, and that explained a lot. So I started looking at some translations from characters and saw they cheated. Some characters given incorrect meanings/grammatical function. Or inserting/removing bits. Or delivering a word salad. I started my own translations. I puzzle and keep making changes. All done? Then I check! Does the chapter make a coherent and meaningful translation? And don’t cheat! Only use meanings that are Laozi time appropriate. And make sure to not go against the Classical grammar. But I am not the only conscientious translator and e.g. Henricks (my favorite) comes to a totally different translation. I think the characters allow different translations. The translation is the result of the lens one looks through (what’s inside your own mind).

It’s quite beautiful really the quoted poem: The fishhawks sing gwan-gwan 關 關 雎 鳩 On sandbars of the stream. 在 河 之 洲 Gentle maiden, pure and fair, 窈 窕 淑 女 Fit pair for a prince. 君 子 好 逑 ~ Watercress grows here and there, 參 差 荇 菜 etc Shijing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_of_Poetry

No, I am not in touch with any banned members.

Or to today? As still they exclaim 天 哪 (tian1 na3) oh my God!; good Lord!; Heavens above.

@Apech I want to post about a few other things first. Then I will get back to it. I have been trying to translate ch. 1 from characters for about 7 years now, so the reply is bound to be be short.

詩 經 (shi1 jing1) [poetry scripture] Book of Songs (Shijing) (11th to 7th centuries BC) “ … the Shijing style groups four syllable lines into quatrains.

@steve yes. I hasten to add I only went there to have convos with Wrakhout (Wandelaar here). I do not feel I fall in the Jules exclusion category.

@steve the now defunct forum Original Dao.

These are not written by Chinese that do not speak English. As for and it’s my prerogative:

Chinese is polysemic. Tian can mean the sky; 天 (tian1) sky Tian can mean the place souls went to after they died; 天 (tian1) Heaven Tian can mean the Sky-God; 天 (tian1) Tian. Traditionally (from Zhou times to the end of the Qing Dynasty) the Chinese venerated 天 (tian1) Tian. He was seen as an omnipotent entity. He was greater than the universe, including it, and omnipresent in it. He also was endowed with a personality.

I find rule 3 the most difficult one to comply with. In Classical, each character is only one syllable. A whole stanza typically consists of only 16 syllables. It’s not really possible to convey the meaning in English in 16 syllables.

Obscurity violates rule 2 for transltions (as by 嚴 復 (yan2 fu4): 信 xìn - true to the meaning 達 dá - easy to understand 雅 yǎ - preserves the style of the original

I did already post that

Ursula le Guin’s DDJ https://wesleyac.com/dao/refs/leguin1998.pdf I see she translates 德 in 道德經 (dao4 de2 jing1) as “power”. Read enough, not for me.