waterdrop

So one thing im asking in that post is where is the line and what causes the damage and how can it be avoided

So one of the main questions here im asking from start  is  about the guild lines :  what are stuff to include in any qigong set (some closing and opening movments ? what to they have to contain?)  ,  and what stuff should be avoided (too much or too strong upper movments and not downward ? too many fast movments ? too many slow movments ? too many leg movments ? too many static positions ? etc) 

 

Another example i hear some nice chinese music , getting up and doing slow movments , mindfully ,connecting it to the breath even ,    can that cause damage ?         if i keep doing that for long time that can cause damage ?        ... cause reading some comments here and elsewhere it seems the answer might be yes ?

And if a movement feels nice and i decide to repeat it ?  damage potential ?       

if i do the same thing everyday than damage potential ? 

This thing and many more reasons is why im trying to understand this  (why im asking what are the guildlines of movments , if you can break up sets , what do this opening and closing movments do , if you need to balance certian movment types etc)  , not some train of thought  " i will invent this brand new and better qigong set and will publish it on youtube "  or other similar thing



 

42 minutes ago, Gerard said:

  3 hours ago, waterdrop said:

Not saying i can be making up a set better than what is taught by different teachers by now   ....     what i am saying is im looking for just an ok set that has some benefit  (even if very small)

42 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

OK, got you. For that try Yang TJQ, a simplified set easy to learn. Very little benefit but at least it'll keep you busy.

 

Go to YT, type Ian Sinclair Beijing Simplified Yang Tai Chi. He has broken down the whole set in several small videos. Very well explained and easy to follow.

 

 

No , that was mis-written and a completely different thing than what im writing from the start ,  i meant to write more or less what i wrote in other places just explain it more clearly , that im trying to understand in what places i can take out parts or if i remember just part of the movements if i can do just what i remember or for example if one movment hurts more than others if i can take that movment out of the set   etc etc   ...    

so wondering about what are the guildlines to a set and of movements 

i will edit that part cause it really is not what i was thinking while writing it ,   here is the edit which is closer to what i had in mind :

 

Quote

Not saying i can be making up a set better than what is taught by different teachers by now   ....  that in certain cases maybe i can do my own set i make up on the spot ,     that still has some benefit  (even if very small)  even if less than some known set   , not in replacement of but on top of a known set  (for example in times i forgot a set moves , or have 3 minutes of time only)            this is what im asking about      (asking what are the guild lines to do so)

Also for example if i practice shibashi and i have less time or less motivated  or want to do one or three movements longer , than maybe its good as long as i do an opening movement ?  or good as long as i do closing movement ?   

the answers to this question can help in many things (like doing part of a set and not just about making one up , or about what is the purpose of different movments or why in the same tradition one teacher does this closing movment and another does a different one and another teacher does two closing movments and one does none )  , not just whatever specific thing people think that i am looking for , but i feel in this forum many of this opportunities to answer questions that help in many ways (answering one question answers many other questions and issues)  are missed

Not saying i can be making up a set better than what is taught by different teachers by now   ....  that in certain cases maybe i can do my own set i make up on the spot ,     that still has some benefit  (even if very small)  even if less than some known set   , not in replacement of but on top of a known set  (for example in times i forgot a set moves , or have 3 minutes of time only)            this is what im asking about      (asking what are the guild lines to do so)


I mean doing extra light exercise movement daily is beneficial , adding a few minutes of dancing a day should be beneficial in general  , where is the point where it is soo bad ?   if i do dancing mindfully it becomes bad ?    if i dance slow and i dance mindfully its bad ? 

(again emphasizing  (many other things i think are redundant)  its not that i think i am going to make better sets and start publishing them as a teacher - but if i have a little extra time and dont want to repeat again whatever current set i do (lack of motivation, pain from some movement in the set if i repeat it too much ,  lack of time etc)   or i dont remember a set   ... than i wonder if making up some set for this times is soo bad that some of the replies above seem to oppose it  or it can be beneficial if following a set of guild lines

( Also like many other questions i hope that answers i get can help me understand other things , so for instance good replies here can explain as well why for example on some sets and practices you always put your hands one over the other in the LDT  and why in others they dont do that , some do lowering of the hands movment , in some both  (and maybe if i see some tradition that dont do some of this stuff or all of this stuff than i can know its probably not that good of a tradition if for example they dont do any closing movements   or that the teacher is not good if he doesnt teach that part or skip it)

I dont mean instead of regular qigong practice etc ...  i didnt remember a full set  (shibashi)  and didnt want to put that much time  to do a full set , so just started to do some random movement i made up and started repeating it but stopped and wondered if it might have a negative effect on some sort  (wondering if i do this movment in long run , or different made up movements in long run if they will have negative effect)   , so i was wondering what are the tips to follow in making your own qigong set  (not talking about spontaneous qigong)   ,  is there a way to cause damage ?

will throw some stuff that i heared here and there  , like :         too much movement in a set  ?        too little movement in a set  ?      no opening ?  no closing ?

How short can a set be and how long ? 

Do you always have to have some opening movement ?  what that movement needs to have ?

Do you always have to have an ending movement ?  what that movment needs to have ?    always push hands down at the end ? 
do you always need to finish with hands on lower dantian ?

What are some damages that can be caused if you dont follow certain rules  (what are they?)   ?    

Maybe not damages but maybe if i dont do certain things a certain way than i miss out on some benifit  (maybe if i dont put hands on LDT than i miss out on some qi ?)   so im asking about tips to get most benifit  (not just to avoid damages)

 





 
 

What are peoples thoughts on shibashi ? 

I wonder for example how it compares to stuff damo mitchell is teaching for example ?

What system do you practice and how does shibashi compare to it ?

Do you build the lower dantian with shiabshi also ?    does it curculate the qi in the  microcosmic orbit ?               (it seems some teachers claim this stuff takes years and some that you do it straight away)  
How good is it ,  how far you can reach from it  (energetically, spirutally, health wise) ?       
 If someone does only shibashi  for rest of his life -  what can he expect except heatlh benefit from it ?      (and what he is missing out on compared to someone else who does some other neigong system) 
Is it lacking in some areas  , and if so in what areas is it lacking ?




would love to hear bad and good opinions and viewpoints of different people here on it , criticizms of different points of it or points which shibashi is better than other practices etc 
 

As far as i remember when studying online with damo mitchell course ,  you need to build the lower dantian container to store your qi in ,  and before doing that you cant really store qi cause you dont have a real container for it  ....  which makes me doubt the legitimacy of any teacher who claims you store qi just by doing a certain movement towards the LDT area ...   and even videos i did and i felt nice and even felt tingling in hands or feeling lightness still when they say you do this movment to store qi  makes me really doubt the teachers (=the people making the video)
 

 

Maybe i change this to what people think about the 2 links i gave as an example , not about if a teacher is better than watching videos online  (which is obvious teacher is better)

And what people think about how some  teachers saying you cant store qi in the lower dantian before  you "build"  it first and yet in many of this videos they talk about drawing qi to the dantian and storing it in the dantian , which according to other teachings its usless and by that view point this youtube videos are misleading ?

So just a reply about this stuff  - about this 2 spesific links i put  ...   and also about the point of how legit a teacher can be if he says the qignong exercise is storing qi in the LDT  when other teachers say you need to build it first .... so by that you can say any teacher who claims you store qi in LDT is misleading , no ? 
 

How legit are youtube qigong videos ?   how beneficial are they ?          can they do harm in some way (even small one) ?        are they beneficial qi wise ?  energetically wise ?           are they just good low intensity exercise and that is it  (not "Real qigong") nothing more ?   

in short - how beneficial are they really ?  how far can you take it with them ? 

Just so what im trying to understand is more clear :  I am thinking this all in comparison to damo mitchell teaching for example , or stuff written in this forum ...  for example on how you cant store qi in the lower dantian before  you "build"  it first  .... yet in many of this videos they talk about drawing qi to the dantian and storing it in the dantian , which according to other teachings its usless and by that view point this youtube videos are misleading

examples :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCicH-iz1oU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmNWj9YtAw&t=24s

And also wondering about known sets stuff like 8 brocades and shibashi  etc  (that are also on youtube)  ... and how beneficial are they  (cause they say the same things and claimed benifits as the videos above  - stuff like storing qi in lower dantian and stuff like improve eyesight or improve liver and kidney functions etc)  ?

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

So you have found the first test:  Does your physical body feel better when touching the crystal?

 
well im not sure about that ,  its being worn on a chain for a long time , so not really just touching it ,  and not sure if its bad (maybe its bad energy realesed ?  maybe its some bad feeling that has some beneficial effect , like qi purification effects you can get from practicing qigong where you can get for example minimum a painful rash but in long run its a good sign)    

or someone who told me that its the energy from the crystal effecting the heart somehow  (he said it in a semi-scientific fashion)  and that i should carry crystals in pockets and not near chest   (though im really not sure , also was long agi , but maybe crystal had same effect in pocket but not sure at all)  

 

If it is not clear to everyone  i am talking about crystals that are talked about in "new age" circles  , crystals that have some noticable healing or spiritual effect (for better or worse) ,  not really asking how we can benifit from crystals in our industry ...  and   it is good that child labor is mentioned  despite the disadvantegs i meant were about to the person "using"  the crystals ,  some of the crystals i have (which i dont use anymore but wondered now if i should use them again thats why i ask)   are  100%  not from child labor and more than that the sellers of them are doing pretty well by getting this crystals    (enviormental impact is a different story though - though also in many cases its less damaging than other products )    cause its known where some crystals are taken from and their mining methods (some are from europe not africa , some are taken from sand or beach etc)   .....         i am all for mentioning bad side of stuff people consume (including  of a certain food in a thread about its benifits here )    but not in a bashful way cause that is just hypocritical , especially when people here wear clothes and use cellualr phones and computers etc  which might not only not come from bad working  conditions at a factory but the materials for them also  as well come from unethical environmentally damaging places (also not sure if true but i read somewhere that most crystals are found as by product during mining for other minerals (that people criticzing crystals might use ,  and they just criticze crystals cause they themselves dont use them)    also i already have crystals with me so can be said to not buy anymore cause its unethical but can use the ones i have

i used to wear crystals on a chain when i first heard about it and it caused me pain in chest , to the point i took it off (Even though i was told its beneficial)  , so i think something is there  , question is if its really strong or very weak or harmful and if its benifical than beneficial for what

Maybe a rock or a piece of wood have same effect like a crystal or even stronger , or weaker but it has only good effect unlike a crystal , so would it not be good to learn that

this could have been a great thread where people share information about crystals   , talking to the point , criticizing the use of it and its bad effect on planet    , saying its pointless etc , but its just

The problem with this forum is there is a ton of trolling and idle chatter (some can be even good but not when its only that as a response to questions) and just writing nonsensical stuff   that really lowers its quality and chance to get answers and share information ,  If someone interested in this topic and have something to add he must scroll down through soo much crap (and that is true even when asked about daoist stuff and even technical qigong stuff) 

15 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

It depends more on the elemental of the crystal than its chemical and geometric qualities.

 

Most crystals I see in crystal shops have traumatised elementals - since larger crystals were smashed with a hammer to produce smaller crystals for sale.

 

So right relationship is often the first requirement for a crystal to be beneficial 

 

https://www.naturaldiamonds.com/epic-diamonds/the-6-most-notorious-cursed-diamonds/ 

  all crystals have been moved form their place , so even if not broken they were scratched etc        seems from that since only crystals you happen to stumble upon can be good  , thoguh even in that case they probably being broken from a bigger cluster for you to encounter them ,  not to mention the enitre formation of crystals is traumatized  ( crazy  heat , pressure  etc )

Is there a crystal that can be  obtained that does not come from traumatized elementals ?       

also what you think about "cleansing"  of crystals ?    that people say just clears anything bad from a crystal (including how it was mined and processed)

  something else i wonder about - cause some say that crystals have a sentient spirit ,  so it made me wonder what happens if you brake a crystals to many different pieces , you create many new sentient beings ? 

I guess if crystals were beneficial as some new age people claim ,than maybe if not buddhist monks but at least some daoist teachers would recommend them , and if they dont than maybe crystals are not that benifical and maybe even haremful ?

 

Are crystals without any effect ?  with a beneficial effect ?  with a damaging effect ?    

(do they have healing benefits ? do they have spiritual path benefits ?  do they have benefits for neigong ?  are they harmeful in some way ? do they have spirits in them (evil?good?)  ?  do they effect qi and cause some issues like that ?  do they effect the microcosmic orbit ?) 

Any extra information about this topic would be welcomed 

@Lairg   who is the "sponsor"  while doing an yijing normal reading ?

What are peoples thoughts on a yes/no oracle ?       

asking maybe also about i-ching  direct answers of yes no  (not ones with interpretation - not like "stopping to train will cause your health go bad , continuation brings good fortune "  but  "should i keep training?"   reply "yes") 

and asking about other types of oracles  that maybe can give more direct answers the the yijing ?        

should i go to this event ?  flip a coin ...  should i take drugs and kill some people ? flip a coin  ....   should i buy this product ?  flip a coin ...  if i order this product will it be broken ? flip a coin .........  what is the problem with that ? why it doesnt work ?                         (or maybe if 1 coin is some satistical issue  than maybe flip more coins ... maybe 3 o4  or even a 100) 

Would love to hear peoples interpenetration ,  I asked 3 questions about this subject [of my "spiritual" practice (mostly meditation)   and why i never am abale to maintain it and it always seems to fail from different reason ]   :

1 . Why my practice always fails  ?                              55        (changing lines first and fourth )  change to -> 15

2 . How to prevent a fall in my spiritual practice ?     18 

3 . hex 18 says "work on what has been spoiled (decay)"   ... so i close by asked again :       What has been spoiled ?   3  (changing lines  fifth and six)   change to  - >  27

Thank you very much for the effort to make a video to reply to me

What exactly is carlos castaneda's "personal power" ?    

Is it qi or some kind of other energy ? 

He describes it as something you gather ...  

(but to gather qi i understand you need first to form a dantian container ,  so maybe its not qi but something else ?)      

After reading Terry's latest comment it inspired me to do a reading for the 3 coin method - i asked :

What influence on me will have if i use the 3 coin method instead of the stalks ?                           (and since i ask it many times during in my head  -  i did remove the "on me"  part and just kept influence  - not sure if it will effect the results much)

I got  HEX 14  (with changing lines in second and third)   which changes to -->     HEX 21

I am not sure about hex 21 at all  ....  but hex 14 seems super positive to me and saying i should change to 3 coins     , but maybe the fact it changese to hex 21 which also talks about obstacle ( which reminds me of HEX 39 i got before )  than maybe its not a good idea to change to 3 coin method

* this time i asked what if i changed to coins completely  - unlike before when i only asked if i will ask on small questions  (but keep using yarrow stalks to big questions )      so i am planing to ask the same question about the 2/4 coins method later

**  also very interesting  is that while i asked this question i did it all very very fast  .... maybe even double the speed !     and i wondered if that was a message as well .....      though that seems as vague to me as the i ching is :  cause i can take it that maybe i will get very fast (faster than i was now)   with the yarrow stalks in the future ....  or maybe it says that the influence the coins will have is to make my readings much faster  (  cause the fastest yarrow stalk reading (at least with my method)  will still be slower than a slow coin reading) 

What questions you can ask the Yijing ?  


[ I read different things  and a bit confused about what questions to ask or not to ask   ......      so would be interested to read even more views about this from people here  and if someone wants to explain why that can be an added bonus    (but will definitely appreciate only seeing different users point of view - without explaining why)  

I just now asked the Yijing what work path i should choose in life   , but the results (1>46)   seems vague  -  and the answers in cases of a question like this seem to be describing something like a general good advice of work hard , be persevering etc   and not "be a pianist/construction worker/engineer etc"    so it made me wonder again about what questions to ask or not ...    or more accurately   :    are there questions to never to ask cause i will never ever get a good reply to them  ?    to never ever ask a yes/no  question ?  are there questions that are best to ask  ?    are there questions that are more easy to understand than others ?   are there questions that you will get a reply to  but just wont be able to easily understand it  (maybe i was told i should be a lawyer that specializes in agricultural disputes  and i missed it?)  ?   
 

specifically asked about 2/4

I wrote on the paper  " What effect would it have on me to use the coins (2/4 coins used) *instead of the stalks*  to make small decisions  ? "

but was thinking just what if i used the coins ...  also while doing the reading was getting thoughts about the phrasing of it  (and add to that i ask in my language and not english)    - than tried to emphasize (cause its a long time to do a reading like this so can ask in many different ways in that time)   that i ask about small issues and not act on it  (cause at start i was starting to repeat in mind " if i make decisions based on the coins (2/4)  in small decisions"    instead of just asking if i advice on small decisions (as opposed to acting on them) 

A point i thought about that seems to be pro not even split  -  is that maybe its the subconscious doing the splitting  .... and if you do it without thought than maybe its guided by higher self -   (anyway at the moment i am soo new and unaware of all hex's so i would not know what results i want even )           so in that sense  i actually can see why the yarrow stalks are superior because they are not throwing of coins where you dont have much of a say on the landing position -   and in same way better than throwing sticks  and better than picking something from a bag etc   ...  because its a choice you make yourself and not something else by chance  - so maybe you have some intervention of your higher self  - maybe even your "normal"  self being involved has a benefit

(just throwing a thought here - again i have no idea cause i am still not good with the iching )

I just asked the stalks : What effect would it have on me to use the coins (2/4 coins used)  to make small decisions  ?

and sadly i got hexagram 39 (obstruction)  which seems to mean    to not to start to use the coins 



 

 I dont have access to Achillea Millefolium  in my country , but that does sound promising that in the future i will order online stalks for that ,  it sounds promising ,  but for now will stick with the yarrow stalks to the big one and i am considering using now the coin methods on small stuff

I was really not sure i was suppose to cut the yarrow bundle in the middle or not  ....    i understood  until now that i am suppose to just split it to 2 bundles  - not to try to cut it in the middle
 

And than you everyone who has replied  ....   i think it all helps my understanding