Zork

This only proves that Chang uses neikung which i already mentioned. You supply zero proof that your group uses neigong within the 3 levels you have. As i said before there are qigong systems that use both yin and yang chi.

Some other questions: What is the purpose of the system? (you avoid answering in the FAQ, please answer) What is the main method it uses? (obviously it isn't MCO) Why is it preferable in your opinion to others systems available? (please state something other than the inaccurate mantra" it has been proven in the presense of scientists"). Advantages and disadvantages of the system? Are there any side effects to training? At least that a novice should be aware of? What is the history of the system? How does it tie in with MoZi? Which tenets of MoZi does your group follow?

That is what i mean Sean. FAQs start like the way you mention. They don't start with : "to contact us ....." And obviously if and how they use wires isn't or at least shouldn't be a frequently asked question by sane people! I mean come on, how many of you that teach internal systems gets asked on how he uses wires? On whether they were taught everything, i can only say that i sincerely believe that they have everything that Jim and Kostas told them. The only one who knows for sure whether they were taught everything for their level, is Chang and for obvious reasons he isn't available. That creates the problem that their claim can't be verified in any way.

Their definition of Neigong is nonstandard and tottaly incorrect. There are many qigong systems that use yin qi. That doesn't make them neigong! MoPai by Chang past level 4 is neigong. Pre Level 4 it is qigong. If crap like that makes it to their terrible FAQ* it has no place here. *Seriously people, which FAQ in the entire history of FAQs starts with information on where to find the instructors? No info on what mopai is? No mention of MoZi? And instead we get random info on ad hominem attacks aimed at Jim that no one mentioned in years!

The only way a FAQ can work is if the community posts the questions, the WMP answer and one like Sean mediates so that it can have some usefulness. 1)Saying things like WMP is not qigong is not an acceptable answer because it is misinformation and deception. There is one of the five original western students of mo pai quoted above clarifying that neigong happens after level 4. Which means that westerners practice some preparatory form of qigong mo pai. 2)Saying that they don't believe in supernatural entities and then having Chang in video with possessed swords, exorcisms and talking about yin spirits, isn't exact or true either. 3)Claiming that WMP is the same as the MoPai Chang teaches isn't correct either. Jim McMillan claims that he pushed the cardboxes in the video using Chang's yin field. So he is clear that the presence of a teacher affects the results. I am OK if they don't mention everything in the FAQ but telling blatant lies like the above isn't OK at all! PS: Will the purpose/end result of the system be included in the FAQ?

Of course he would. By the way since there is faq already in the form of "the magus of java" writer's interview on this site, why doesn't someone clean up and formalise the answers he gave into a FAQ about mo pai?

I do not trust MIldmouse23 to write the FAQ on a private space on his own. The reason? Look for yourself Do you remember the above? His answer was Now look what happens. https://www.metacenterchicago.com/2017/02/19/mo-pai-nei-kung-john-chang/ On the above link one of the 5 students of John Chang in the west claims that What he is telling us is that WMP don't practice NeiKung despite their claims and furthermore there is a difference between mo pai in the East and the West. Western mo pai is qigong and eastern neigong. MildMouse has claimed that mo pai is the same everywhere and he is practicing neigong when he has no proof of that and despite evidence like the above disproving him. Do you trust him on making a FAQ on his own and giving him free pass on modifying it? I don't and i would like someone neutral to compile it.

First i am petted and i am dishonest and no apology? Good riddance! God speed! Troll defenders get out!

The problem isn't about original or new practitioners. The problem as you correctly state is that eventually anyone could demand moratorium about their system. Even crappy systems with fraudsters as teachers could demand it as part of equal treatment! So no moratorium! Under no circumstances!

Dishonest? No. You don't understand. You claim to. You just don't.

I obviously don't care about your opinion. Once again why do you comment on my personal preferences?

You are confusing my opposition to WMP recruitment as hostility to Mo Pai. There is a world of difference!

I just stated my preference. What seems to be the problem? Is the moratorium acceptable to you? If it is, then it must be covered in the rules area that you mention. IMHO it is completely unacceptable and creates a precedent.

This is just a pretext for them to play martyr and achieve their goals. No one is hostile here towards Mo Pai after the "second coming of Sean". Indifferent? Sure!

Under no circumstances should a moratorium happen. Sean is being generous enough on allowing a FAQ. I personally don't want this forum to become a WMP recruitment ground. They already have their forum and reddit threads.

Go ahead. If they accept it and actually answer some questions for a change that would be nice. I have the feeling that they won't agree though by bringing up all kinds of excuses.

Theoretical situation: I claim to have visited Mars on a secret mission from NASA. You naturally ask for proof of my trip there. I answer that the mission was top secret and i cannot divulge anything. WMP in a nutshell. More like: WMP: I have a modified version of my car engine that produces +40% horsepower Me: Ok then, let's see the engine in a pic or at least your engineer plan on how to produce more horsepower by using the main engine. WMP: It is an improved engine. Me: Ok what makes it better? WMP: It is made using the blueprints of an advanced model engine by a supercar company in the far east! There is a video showing how you can do it too! Me: Ok, what modifications did you do to the engine? Did you use turbo? Did you tamper with the fuel intake? WMP: It works like a charm on the supercar! Me: I am not talking about the supercar, i am asking about the car engine you built. Do you at least have a video that shows the acceleration so as to figure it out in another way? WMP: We can't show that because the forum is hostile and we will be ridiculed. That is Western mo pai in a nutshell and ALL their discussions follow the above pattern. Substitute "Me" for all users that attempted to converse with WMP over the years. I have pressed the block button by the way....

Sean, the problem lies in the habit WMP have of stating something in an argument and when the time comes to back their argument up they bring up the "i can't share for whatever reasons" excuse. This isn't OK and it has happened with many WMP practitioners in the past like @Ilovecoffee. What is the point of mildmouse23 bringing up his system in this thread as a way of backing up his comments on video and then not providing any real proof? Look at this simple question: I am really surprised that you see it that way. It isn't OK. Yes it is not a capital offense but their way is no way to contribute to the forums. Without proof i can claim practically anything. What proof do i have to back up the claim? Just my word? If they can't answer the damn question for whatever reasons then they shouldn't be using the argument in the first place! I mean there is no problem in using whatever secrecy they want but it is a problem if they invoke it during a conversation that they know before hand, that it will force them to reveal secrets, if they engage in it. The solution is them not to engage threads that require proof of their practice. Not engage them and play martyr so as to stop simple but awkward questions that they can't answer for whatever reasons.

If it involves kundalini somehow you can do yijinjing, 8 piece brocades or zhan zhuang to clean and reinforce the meridians to prepare them for the energy flow. Otherwise i assume there are tons of systems to choose from. The only system you should avoid is fragrant because it is not compatible with deep meditation or unnatural breathing patterns.

Asking for kriya yoga and "gigong in general" isn't specific. There are thousands of qigong styles in China. Which one are you refering to? As a general rule you can mix a physical style like baduajin or yijijing with other forms but it isn't a hard and fast rule. Yijijing in particular is supposed to prepare the body for Xisuijing so yes combinations are possible and sometimes very effective but you need to ask a teacher first or just trailblaze and accept consequences.

Spot on! That is exactly what is happening plus they, for whatever reason, try to play victims.

Exactly. If you can't share it there is no point in even mentioning it.

No but in that case one is talking about an opinion not a fact. Here opinions of mildmouse were presented in an absolute manner as facts without being so. WMP being neikung is his opinion. Video being as reliable as real teachers is an opinion. If he provides no facts that is the extent of the strength of his argument. He can't ask from anyone to ascribe to that opinion obviously.

The problem with that approach is that it allows a select group of users of the forum to ignore basic requirements of argumentation and dialogue which is to provide proof for statements made. Argumentation logic is a foundation to dialogue and to an extent this forum. If let's say western mo pai choose not to follow them for whatever reason then what is the point of us following it?

It started as a personal attack on Earl Grey. The title was literally "For Earl Grey". look for youself What MildMouse23 was debating was that there is no need for transmission in Internal arts and video can be just as good as the real thing. He viewed the insistence on transmission as a subvert attack on his system and that is why he started this thread. Earl Grey debated about video being useful as a learning medium but with serious limitations in many cases among which is the learning of other languages especially the ones that require cultural immersion. Mildmouse23 did not accept it and Earl Grey at some point asked him how many languages he has learned through video and which cultures he has visited to test his lingual ability and to immerse. He never responded (this started the trend in the thread). At some point Liminal_luke talked about the gorilla in the room and mentioned mo pai and then all hell broke loose as usual. Next mildmouse stopped answering any questions and deflected any comments by talking nonsense. Then i mentioned the subreddit thread that they use for recruiting and he claimed that they don't do qigong but neigong. All i asked then is which of the 3 exercises /levels that they have available is neigong in nature?. He never responded because obviously there is no neikung involved at what they practice. And then he took all this as an attack on his system. We aren't hostile to his qigong system but the general behavior of stating stuff not based on reality or argumentation and not backing the statements with any proof. The claim that they do neikung is absurd and it needs to be proven as per simple burden of proof rules. There was no proof given, ergo they do qigong. Which is really no problem. Their problem is for whatever reason they don't want to be associated with qigong.