rideforever

Yes but if you are intelligent enough to make these criticisms, you should be intelligent enough to extract the original meaning and intention behind "blasphemy". Then our intelligence is used for something useful rather than the false empowerment of winning arguments.

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But what is it that you want out of a system ? Do you have a goal in mind ? Otherwise how can you decide if a "system" is going to satisfy your goal ?

Who even teaches "accept things as they are" ? What does it mean ? It rains and you walk around without an umbrella ? These people are just on the way to bed, good night ! No matter the era ... this world is full of chaos and shit on all sides. Shit on the front, on the back, on the left, on the right, up down and inside. But there are some ground rules that are always useful : 1. Recognize the danger and move quickly 2. Do not draw attention to yourself, but work like a warrior. 3. Always go to the source. And I mean right to the source. Until the teacher's mouth is touching your ear, you are too far away. 4. Great rewards mean great effort. But not dumb effort. 5. Humans are not trustworthy, but that does not mean you cannot love them help them co-operate with them dance with them hug them and pray for them. And forgive them. 6. Use your intelligence. Make mistakes, and learn from them. I Can, I Am. 7. Use both masculine and feminine qualities. 8. You either become God, or you become Dog. You choose. (Prabhupada) 9. Just to find the true road, is to find peace. 10.

Specifically the tremendous value of Gurdjieff was the development of the centre of personal intelligence which is virtually unknown, and the development of many powerful techniques. As well as his traditional Eastern patriarchy that is rare today. And his tireless approach to life. There are also his beautiful dances, and his music. And yes Beelzebubs Tales. Altogether a very rare and valuable light on Earth.

I take your point some of his students are f**ed up. But then look at Christanity. And look at the zombie Buddhists. It comes with the territory and no-one is immune. Taosits too always doing the energy but not realising that waking up is not being powered up. I just witnessed a conference meeting this morning with the Course In Miracles people, the teacher for today was in my opinion filled with darkness and feeding off the students. Wow, quite a dangerous place this Earth. Full of naive students. I don't know why you say you "accepted everything he said" because you cannot read Beelzebub without a deep churning and confrontation with your own mind, your own being, and the story you are told of the world. What is there to "accept" ? He has no belief system except doing the work on oneself, arduously for the most part. "Only exceptional efforts count". What is it that you "accepted" ? Strange comment isn't it. Well, I would like to hear more from you about this stuff. I know there is a large school in California doing the 4th Way, run by a paedophile rapist according to some ex-students. Well all I can say is that Gurdjieff put the material there, but who can read it ?

If I have 6 books in my house coming from his students, do you really think I haven't read all his work ? Of course I have ! And they are filled with details, most of them written in diary form, describing incident and incident with Gurdjieff mindblowing stuff. Hundreds of incidents, hundreds of conversations. You have no specific examples. I am not sure what you have against him, perhaps you are jaded, you sound it. Ouspensky wrote In Search of the Miraculous, sorry your are right about that, I mixed them up. So what is wrong with "Meetings with Remarkable Men" ? You think it is a little mystical and far fetched with exaggerating stories and so on ? One of the things he felt was that mankind as he is cannot live an honest life and that honest people are the first ones that are killed if there is trouble in a community. And that he spent his youth learning the art of disguise, of portraying different characters according to the needs of the moment. And to use this skill in order to help the teaching. Of course many teachers are hugging kissy kissy and tell you beautiful fairy tales about how plants live in harmony with nature and bambi plays with the tigers in the forest. Typical thing for Gurdjieff was to induct his new students (mostly from white collar backgrounds) give them a spade and get them to dig for 2 weeks until they were half dead. Anyone who left early couldn't be a student. Today nobody turns anyone away. Because few actually have anything to give. When you have something to give, you learn the value of protecting it.

I find your views quite strange. He attracted a literary crowd, like Kathrine Mansfield and A.R.Orage. And because of that many of his students published books all with their own journeys, but their descriptions of Gurdjieff are very clear and powerful. Because there are so many student life books, I think your ideas are wrong. I have about 6 here at the moment from different students. One student arrived from the Trenches, he was in the war, and arrived in British Army uniform, exhausted. Gurdjieff emitted a blue energy to help heal that student before sending him back to the war. Another student visited him in his Paris flat late in his life, unexpectedly. Gurdjieff was making dinner for a group of old people from the neighbourhood, these old people were just lonely people, not students or anything. So the student asks him why ? After all he is such a big teacher, why these nobodies ? But Gurdjieff said that there was nobody else to look after them. He was a Christian. That book you mention "Meetings with Remarkable Men" is in my opinion a load of intellectual shit from Ouspensky who did 2 years with Gurdjieff before running off to England to sell it. Ouspensky died an alcoholic after screwing over his students. Gurdjieff also toasted each person over dinner describing what kind of idiot he was, because he realised the low level of men including himself. He was a magnificent being. But also a confrontational fighter. Most people prefer to sit in front of yellow robed lamas who say all those things you know they are going to say, with a vacant expression.

You are not talking about Gurdjieff. Who did you hear that from ? Gurdjieff never did anything at all, even small things, because "somebody told him so". The whole point of his life was to never do that. To always see for yourself, try things, check and verify at any point His motto was "never do anything as others do". That's what he did and taught every day of his life. He used to prepare huge banquets for his students with many special dishes he had learned on this journeys requiring rare ingredients that he had collected, and he used to cook them all himself maybe a dozen courses for 30 people. Regularly. And then he would teach before during and after lunch. I think you are strangely misinformed about him.

What I have noticed recently is that many light beings higher beings .... from the stories and testimonies, also their knowledge is no different to buddhas. It is all the same. Meaning that many high beings although they are in realised states even very high states, have little technical understanding of what is happening which means their intelligence is lagging way behind their state. Which is quite strange to see. Basically we have to do it.

10 mins of the Diamond Sutra later. Well, it's just all the same. Buddha just repeats that these marks or those marks are not signs of the Tathagata. This is just useless rubbish. Means nothing. The truth is that those monks who got enlightened simply sat with him until they caught the light. From time to time someone asked Buddha something and he replied with some rubbish which meant nothing. Mostly he talked of the great merit great bodhisattva great service great god great hamburger. Great anything, because that's what human monkeys like to be told. You are good you are great just sit with me. I think mankind must evolve beyond this crap. For a start we have to recognize the centres inside the body, this is what gets enlightened. Buddha speaks generally he never talks of the inner structure or its relationship to enlightenment. When Buddhists talk of love compassion heart it is more like aspiration or poetry. But what of the heart chakra. Er ... don't know. Well you should know.

It's not the chakras that are different but the understanding explanation of them. Which is rrelated to the history goal and level of consciousness of the culture. Chinese cultures aims for one thing. British another. Indian yet another. But in general we are all handicapped by dumb brutal ape arrogant insensitive tribal. It is actually extremely hard for a human to read a book without it being coloured by all these factors. They end up using the book as a screen to project all these habits and currents. To read or to do anything honestly is enlightenment. Hence Buddha said "when for you seeing is just seeing and hearing just hearing ... that is enlightenment" Westerners for instance appreciate individual characters and this represents a new type of growth. It is a metaphorical chakra.

I will look up the Diamond Sutra. I love Buddha and his journey and always think of it, however it has become quite a religion. There are many Buddha's in India, great powerful teachers like Astavakra. Wow I have done some very deep powerful light filled meditations listening to Astavakra. In general mankind's spirituality involves just picking up the energy from the master and thereby sort of instinctively feeling what to do inside. But actually all the words and explanations are very weak bunk and very little of practical use. However I have met some teachers who give detailed instructions and once you see that .... the lights come on backstage at the show. Many people read the Lotus Sutra hoping that just the reading will fix things. But how many noticed that Buddha says that all the arhats and Bodhisattvas arrived where they are through great diligent detailed lengthy arduous work on their paths. Most people don't notice such information. Because there are the instructions. Yah, it's particularly the alpacas that get me !!!!

I don't follow, you say he was gullible but that he could detect BS ? That doesn't make sense. Why do you think he was gullible ?

Gurdjieff said that it had taken him quite of lot of searching before he had discovered that most of what Leadbeater/Blavatsky had written about was not their personal experience, much was heresay. I recognize the chakra circle colours from Pranic Healing Therapy, who also have a "Spleen Chakra" by which they mean a spirit / intelligence of the organ. I suppose they are informed by Leadbeater. The Indian path is to Awaken the chakras as identity. And the goal of their tradition is to transcend as soon as possible by any rapid means. Other traditions stimulate the "chakras" or organs for regulation or longevity etc... which is a different goal, related to a more compassionate and interested view of human life on Earth. Human understanding of "chakras" is quite poor, people use these words but mean different thing. Same for many words like Awaken, Meditation, Presence, Forgiveness, Enlightenment. This goes unnoticed.

Gia Fu Feng 38 A truly good man is not aware of his goodness, And is therefore good. A foolish man tries to be good, And is therefore not good. A truly good man does nothing, Yet leaves nothing undone. A foolish man is always doing, Yet much remains to be done. When a truly kind man does something, he leaves nothing undone. When a just man does something, he leaves a great deal to be done. When a disciplinarian does something and no one responds, He rolls up his sleeves in an attempt to enforce order. Therefore when Tao is lost, there is goodness. When goodness is lost, there is kindness. When kindness is lost, there is justice. When justice is lost, there ritual. Now ritual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of confusion. Knowledge of the future is only a flowery trapping of Tao. It is the beginning of folly. Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real and not what is on the surface, On the fruit and not the flower. Therefore accept the one and reject the other. > I don't like any of your translations, they are either abstract or preachy or overly elaborate. Derek Lin : too abstract (impersonal) Ellen Marie Chen : too clever (defensive) Nights who say Ni : preachy, too complex J McDonald : good but slightly preachy Tao-Ku : preachy and a little kuku Flowing hands : preachy and boasty

Why ? I assume because they are sad and it's cold and their ass hurts and nobody loves them, and it's beans for dinner ?

You are simply wrong. You say all things do their life without complaint or claiming ownership. But the obvious reality is that plants try to kill those who feed on them because they claim ownership to their own life. All creatures do and they fight to the death to claim ownership not only of their own lives but their territory and possessions. The only thing that is given is fruit because of reciprocal maintenance. That is given freely because it also helps the plant, that is the only thing. Human have a really weird interpretation of nature like it's a fairy story where "everything is in harmony". Yes, it's a kind of harmony bloody war of eating each other alive and killing each other's children and fight to the death. The plants do not have our kind of consciousness so it has a different feeling to it. The plants are unconscious (in fact sub-conscious). And this feels dreamy like all asleep. And perhaps that is where you would like to be, asleep. Well perhaps it's not far to go !!! Humans are too dumb to notice the poison barbs the plants are stick out to kill anyone who tries to feed. It spoils their dream.

No this is incorrect. Why do roses have thorns ? Who do you think the plant is trying to do ? And many plants secrete subtle poisons. Why do they do that ? That's one reason we cook vegetables btw. Vegetarians imagine plants don't mind. But they obviously do mind, otherwise they would not protect themselves. It's easier to live in a Bambi story, but life is not boring or stupid. It requires much more of you. Human apes, their No1 desire is to eat a fat meal and fall asleep. I am not sure if intelligence is something people are interested in, but : When you talk of non-dual or dual .... who are you talking about exactly ? Some fool walking around Times Sq with a camera round his neck ? Or a realised being. Because they are different, and they are different because their state is different. Their insides are different. So when you discuss Duality Non-Duality ... who is it you are talking about ? Hello ... does anyone understand what I am saying here ??

Start work with your intelligence. ( I am so full of it today, but hey it's Saturday, monkey day )

I went straight out this morning and did BKF H&E mixed with MW's 8 Extraordinary meridiens, and was about 20ft tall when I was walking back, definitely doing something. I find that instead of calling people up on the phone, if I just do 3 hours hard work I get better results. Rather than watching TV for 2 weeks waiting for the appointment to arrive. What are we helpless morons ? If I was more ill or had less time or had more money or less itching to get going .... then I would call these guys up.

When people argue the same wordy rubbish all the time > is it entity possession. Lots of noise, but pulling the strings are dark slime making a mockery of humans.

Non-duality Duality are just fancy words just ripe for having an argument or taking a silly position and posturing. Who cares. The question is does anyone know how to enter into the deep states. Who has good instructions. "I am the deathless spirit". Really ? Is this a Mad Max sequel ? Sounds nice but these aren't instructions. One option is to sit with Ramana types and then it can happen. But you won't understand. Other option is to find people who understand. Look at these paintings. Pretty aren't there, beautiful artistic, colourful. Fuck all that. Imagine you are a suffering being on a silly planet and you really need an answer. Now look again. What do you see. Something happening the middle of the forehead. Something happening at the back of the head. Right. What do you think that is ? You think these guys were leaning over too much in their bowl of Lucky Charms this morning and something stuck to their face? No, it's a treasure map. What is there at the front of the head, and at the back ? What is there ? What is it that these glows eyes colour mean. These locations are the same in so many traditions. Wake up. What does it mean. Now start working.