rideforever

You can't answer simpler questions about your style. You keep asking me to simplify my really complex question ! It's not complex. Please don't ask any more. As I said most practitioners have no idea what they are doing internally, and you are an exceptional example. You are a teacher aren't you ? You think it's okay not to know do you ? I am only grateful that there are some people out there who do use their brain once in a while, like Chen Xiaowang. In the case of LHBF the ShouyuLiang school has attempted to put back the fine details of LHBF in their work, because they realise how much has been lost. It's the same in Hong Kong where it is still a living tradition and they have all the details of the movements, and its purpose within the tradition. You mentioned of all people Terry Dunn ! Of the very large stack of LHBF I have here, he was the first I bought. His understanding is probably the worst because he learnt it from an old Chinese man who had lost all the details of the movements. Not only that but TD has put some strange spacey ambient music in the material ... as he is performing it .. .what does that mean ? It means he thinks it's some sort of mystical final internal arts destination ... like he is gonna be some celestial dragon .... so get the music on. Unfortunately he has no idea what he is doing and all his movements have lost all the details. You compare that with the Lian school were each movement is sharp and has a meaning and purpose and you start to see that TD is like moving jelly. I know ... you love him, just like you like the mattress fajin guy. Great, enjoy. But hey everyone loves TD, especially when he does all his breathing-concentration-interruption exercises that will damage you like nothing else. Like I said if you make unicorn donuts you will have a big crowd begging for them. I am probably lucky that I don't need to make any money out of this so I can just say the truth. Once your income comes from these things ... who can afford to be honest.

Get that Chen book, maybe you'll understand what I am talking about.

You write this kind of thing a lot. "if anyone reads this thread they will know I am right". It's impossible to have a conversation with you when you are so concerned about such things.

This is your biggest problem, you are always concerned about what people will think of you. Maybe if you just calm down you might be interested in a deeper understanding of the traditions you follow.

You said you did know, so I asked you ... and you don't. You keep asking me to simplify the question, or you never heard of the question before. Look anyway ... maybe you don't care about these things, no problem.

The greatest barrier to not having an answer, is not even having the question ...

Is there any martial art where you can't fight multiple opponents ? No, or where the six harmonies are not used, no. You don't know the purpose of LHBF, you don't even understand the question. It's a typical thing. If you think that the energetics of LHBF or TaiChi are for health reasons, then once again you don't understand the question, and you don't really understand what you are doing or why. Health benefits are a byproduct. Each art uses particular energetic philosophy, for Chen it is very different philosophy for Yiquan or from LHBF. They use different energy principles, they have different goals. And the result on the practitioner is a very different energy body, it is a different spirit. As I mentioned before, people don't care, they don't even realise there is something to know. Most traditions are like this, they are like the Mary Celeste floating around the ocean with no crew, they just keep going on but nobody is home. I had started to to think all internal arts were like this, but I have recently found some people who were also curious and also found the answers - which is great. There are a few who do know.

Energetics it means inside any particular movement, what type of Qi movement is being trained. Fighting multiple opponents whilst preserving the 6 harmonies ... is not something unique to LHBF, you could say that about many or all martial arts.

Just take some of the movements from LHBF that you know well. What are the energetics of those movements? This means in those movements what is the flow of energy from the LDT through the body, what is it doing inside. What are the energetic goals and principles of LHBF as a whole, what is the energetic principle of activity of LHBF. What is the final energy body of an LHBF practitioner. How do the movements you chose relate to the final energy body of a LHBF practitioner.

Why dont you choose some of the movements you are more sure about and describe the energetics of those movements and the relationship to the energetic goal of the tradition.

If you actually have an information on the energetics of LHBF please do tell ?

I really don't think so for the aforementioned reasons. But prove me wrong ...

Translation in English ?

Then, having this intelligence education and having the state transmitted to you ... then it is instant. And you practice by sitting in meditation feeling the instantaneousness. So it is a meeting between the carnal and the immortal, the time bound and the timeless. The experience of all the sages and saints is one of grave difficulty, years searching, years leaving, years discovering. It is not so easy. And there is a purpose to it all. The Self does not need to become realise it already is. But if we become realised it means that a mortal creature, a unique angle of perception, becomes a channel for the Self to explore the Self through you. So there is a reason for it all.

Actually it is the same ; but I am mistaken in that MW has a 2hr DVD with 6 movements on it same as BKF, it's $30 physical or $45 download. He says he added in some alchemical kan li elements. I might get it actually.

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You should not learn meditation from anyone who has failed to become enlightened. Perhaps this is the greatest reason for failure.

Some of the great philosophers were given specialist teachers who did challenge them ... I suppose being an indoor student is the equivalent, then you can be challenged and pushed to achieve but from somebody who cares about you. Martial power or even healing power cannot fully represent the development of the energy-mind because the energy mind is about more than those two things. But martial arts is a good avenue for its development especially given the cowardice inherent in the species. All high arts need to be concealed within things that make sense in this crazy world.

No form simply means that the energy-mind is educated and can move on its own. But it seems from what you say that TaiChi practitioners do not embody their energy-mind ... they see their bodies moving and say it moves on its own or with no form - which means they don't really feel their identity in the belly. It is the same with people who say they are in no-mind, it means that they don't embody their higher mind ... what they notice is that the normal mind is not there ... so they say no-mind ... but they are unable to feel understand or embody the higher mind. Taking the analogy a little further of educating the head-mind and the energy-mind. Can you educate your head-mind at school by fighting people with it, arguing and debating ? Well to a certain extent you can, at the very beginning ... but soon you realise that it's mostly for show and people who win are just charismatic personalities who can play the crowd. People do not really communicate they just want to appear to win. The greatest thinkers with highly educated head-minds were mostly self-reliant and individualistic shunning crowds ... many of them grew up isolated ... in other words at the beginning of the educaton of their head-mind they did it alone, or with careful guidance. Using that as an analogy I would say that fighting with the energy-mind, so called push hands, is not really very good ... only useful to sanity check from time to time. And serious practitioners should educate their energy-mind in the same way as great philosophers educated their head-mind ... they did so on their own and because they loved knowledge and wisdom and needed it to breathe.

Japanese woodblock paintings that are very popular like the great wave, that genre is called Ukiyo-e meaning "pictures of the floating world". It's a very interested term. I saw a documentary on the Japanese Empire, it's rise and fall, at one point hundreds of years ago Japan sensing globalisation from the approach of foreign ships closed its doors and burnt any foreigners that came too close. But after some time walling itself off an American fleet arrived and demanded trade at the end of a gun, the American's arrived with warships ... and eventually the Japanese opened its doors. Trade surged and the Empire died. The streets were full of traders and their wares. At night coloured lanterns lined the streets, music and alcohol flowed, and large red light districts were constructed with all sorts of activities. A floating world of colour and noise that was captured by the woodblock artists. Anyway thinking of an analogy of the floating world it seems to me it is like setting fire to the top of an oil well. The flames surge upwards and outwards burning all that energy in a merry dance of fire. For human societies it is their own energy that is filling the night sky with fire.

I am relating some of MW's statements of Gods Playing in the Clouds correctly. Perhaps you might say that he is insincere or confused. Personally I don't think so.

I have been thinking today about Chen energetic principles and the difference with Yiquan. My questions to you were about ... what more can you do ? What useful things can you do with this energy in practice ... not necessarily for fighting. One thing I was thinking today was that one of the most important goals is to educate the energy mind. Just like the thinking mind in the head, the energy mind in LDT needs an education. Chen does this nicely with each movement in the forms being a micro form with the energy making a different pattern. Each move in the form is the energy making a particular pattern. So by doing a form of 80 moves or so ... the energy mind has to learn to make 80 patterns, and this is very good for its development. (of course the great problem is that the mind in the head will take over constantly and you do it from the head - this is where too much talk of alignment and control and rooting and what not comes from ... people doing it from the head. This is why very slow Chan Si Gong is required to constantly drop from the head into the belly so that the energy-mind can do it without the head at all. It is like developing a second brain in the belly - the head mind constantly steals it.) So the Chen forms if done correctly are an education of the energy-mind, a very beautiful way to do things. But it is not a general purpose energy-mind education because Chen uses a particular circular energy shape. Chen's particular circular shape works well with the anatomy of the human body. Other traditions use different shapes, but should be also done in the same methodology ... from the belly-mind and not from the head ... as they are all training the energy-mind that is the purpose, at least a main purpose. Other purposes include body mind integration, the training of mental awareness of the body, and spiritual cultivation which means the spiritual aspect of the LDT. “heavy/light/float/sink/spiral/cutting“ I feel is a lower form of practice which involves training a general shape for the energy field. In Tai Chi forms you are emanating energy from the LDT through the entire body through a particular movement using all your limbs and torso which is much more complex then training "just be heavy". That seems to be the difference. Another thought is that beating people and push hands is not a very good way to prove that your energy-mind is developed, but it is useful as sanity check from time to time. To train the energy-mind whilst the head-mind is constantly interfering in this world is very challenging. Those are some views.

Have you tried to do drills without physical contact, I would be interested in your results. Also in relation to normal drills can you make any shape you want ? Sphere or knife or whatever ? What about is you transmit alchemising energy to somebody else ? Or the spirit ?

You got some competition - but their Sabre form isn't very good.

Cool stuff you are luck to have a brother you can work with, it's all good.