Mig

Thanks Dwai for your input. We were sitting on a bench and behind us there was fence so they don't allow people to camp in the green areas. People walk always around the lake and I suspect he walked several times and who knows maybe he had checked us earlier. He started his inquiry in a normal way, had a white hoodie on him and white shorts wearing black tennis shoes, maybe vans. He was also carrying a regular android or iphone phone, couldn't tell at that time. As soon as he started telling my friend to give him his wallet, he kept telling the same thing as soon as he got closer then I called 911. Then he kept doing the same thing and we didn't move away because I had already called the police and mistakenly I thought they will be there promptly. I was wrong. Apparently, he was by himself and as soon as we walked away, he followed us and when I felt he was coming too close to me, I turned around and then he felt he was ready to fight clenching his fists. I kept walking to the main entrance where usually rangers are posted there. The supervisor came 15' later and didn't do anything and let us know we could walk away. There was imminent threat and close to physical altercation and I kept controlling myself because I didn't know my legal rights on what to do. It was clear an assault and now I know that I can hit back if there is reasonable fear of bodily injury and proportional force to neutralize the threat. The lesson I learned is to be extremely aware of my surroundings and don't count on police. Be ready and best defense is to attack before I get hurt.

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Zhang San Feng would be the best.  He was said to be invented Taichi.  He was also an Inner Alchemist and became an Immortal eventually.  He had some writings and some of them are translated into English.  For others, as you say, sayings scattered here and there.

Which principles can be learned from the classics that can be applied to this type of situation?

6 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Martial arts principles can be learned from classics.  Taichi is good example.  But the techniques and experiences cannot.   Such trainings may be able to help to get away from the trouble, by your stance, your confidence etc.    Fighting should be avoided because even you have the power and skill,  you don't have will to seriously hurt another person or to kill him without thinking, but the opponent has no limitations and may even has the experience.   Unlike you, they also don't have to face the conscience afterwards. Trainings do can limit damages.   In general, I think it is similar to an encounter with a bear in the wild.   Be prepared in all ways.

 

 

 

could you give me examples of which principles can be learned from classics? There are the Confucian fundamental principals or saying from the Analects or Zen sayings or Koans that are incorporated in the sayings from Masters or here and there some sayings from the DDJ or the Zhuang zi. As for the encounter with a bear, I would say it has nothing to do. One one human starts talking and seeing in their eye entitlement and using slurs as a way to rest his case when he knows if he gets caught then he will use his victimism card.

46 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

In the old days, Taoists mostly didn't live in monasteries as Buddhists.  They either lived as normal people or often traveled to visit sacred places.  Needless to say it would not be safer than now.  And they had all kinds of travel problems plus tigers, wolves, bandits, evil spirits to worry about.  It was why most of them learned some martial arts and medicine skills.  In general they would show humility and move away like facing a wild animal.   I think nowadays they just call the police.

 

By the way why downtown is not safer when there are more people around?

 

It seems this a normal attitude a human can do to move away but in this situation the police didn't show up. We were about 3 miles away from 911 headquarters, and about 2 miles away from the police station and they showed up about an hour later. If they learned martial arts most likely they learned something from the classics. Any thoughts on their learning from the classics?

7 hours ago, virtue said:

 

Exactly. The problem is when the physical force is applied unskillfully and without mental equanimity. It can lead to much distress when law enforcement decides that you have made the greater error than the person who initiated the quarrel. It's usually much more safer and easier to talk and try to connect, and if not successful, then run away rather than confronting directly and trying to subdue the hostile person.

 

Whatever the circumstances, it's always good to be have calmness and enough preparation to handle tense situations. Then you have options and are likelier to avoid trouble.

Easy said than done, the more I think now the more I can see that he was ready to attack, just wanted to see test the waters to see if we were strong enough. Unluckily my young friend he looks fragile and easy white kid target to bully. We walked away and he kept trying to see if he could fight us or robbed us, who knows. Luckily unluckily the rangers were there. It amazes me how people feel entitled to attack someone and then if they lose they become the victim and if you defend yourself you become the assailant.

Recently, I was in echo park lake in echo park, not far from downtown Los Angeles. Having a conversation with an old friend and all of the sudden a young fellow comes to us to ask us for his wallet with $700 dollars. Immediately we stood up to let him check if his wallet was there. Then he left. Soon after he returns and started harassing us claiming we had his wallet and he wanted his money back telling my friend who is a young fellow that he was lying to him then he tried with the older fellow and started getting close as he wanted us to react and see if he could get what he wanted either money or steal something, who knows. In the meantime I am trying to keep my friend calm as he's getting scared so I called 911. It took me three attempts to call the police and we waited for 45' and nobody came by. This park is about 3 miles away from the 911 call center Los Angeles downtown. Then I called back since I was not thinking this was going to end well and put the 911 dispatcher on speaker phone who told us "walk away" once the stalker heard that he stepped away  and we could walk away and started walking behind me as I was protecting my young fellow friend. As soon as I turned my back and faced him he wanted to start a fist fight. I kept walking away and fortunately the park ranger were there and the instigator kept repeating the same thing trying to rest his case that we have stolen his wallet. The rangers called their supervisor who took him another 15 minutes. My wife came by to see if the police was there because she called them right away but no one showed up. Rangers didn't do anything and all they told us is that we could walk away after we had shown him our belongings. In the meantime the stalker just left like nothing had happened. Then I received a call from a police officer telling they were coming to the premises. It took them 15 minutes to get there and all I've got there was no nothing I could do. Clearly the stalker had in his mind to get something, money by harassing or intimidating and the less I will talk to him the more he felt entitled to keep harassing my friend as he found an easy prey and he couldn't do anything because I was there. Then he started getting closer and yelling and I had to yell back to keep off and keep my distance. Now, my question is what would you do for those who believe in love and peace, or any Buddhist or Daoist advice to deal this kind of situation? The lesson I learned, is that you are on your own, the police wouldn't do anything, we could have been killed and the guy would have left unharmed and free. I know I am venting but I am pissed how some people can get away so easily just to do what they want preying for those victims. Worst was to hear the police officers telling me it sounds he was a deranged individual or homeless and then I've got even madder because not only it took them forever to show but let this guy walk away and let him keep doing the same thing for sure.

Thanks

The Test Of Chinese as a Foreign Language (TOCFL) is Taiwan's national standardized test designed and developed by the National Taiwan Normal University

I stumbled on this line:
假於異物，託於同體，忘其肝膽，遺其耳目，反覆終始，不知端倪，芒然彷徨乎塵垢之外，逍遙乎無為之業  which is translated as

Again and again they end and they begin, having no knowledge of first principles. They occupy themselves ignorantly and vaguely with what (they say) lies outside the dust and dirt (of the world), and seek their enjoyment in the business of doing nothing. Legge

tumble back to the endless cycle of end and beginning without any awareness of the point between them. Unbounded they toss about beyond the realm of dust, free and easy in the workings of effortless action (wuwei). Eno

They end and they begin without knowing either the beginning or the end. Unconsciously, they stroll beyond the dirty world and wander in the realm of nonaction. Fung Yu-lan

I got surprised that in another Mair translation he translates it as Karma and says the following in his notes:

21. karma (61). Since karma has long since become a legitimate English word, we may use it here as a precise rendering of a.In deed, yeh is the standard Buddhist Hybrid Chinese translation of Sanskrit karma. Cf. the following note.
22. nonaction (61). On nonaction in the Bhaeavad Gita and its parallels with wuwei in the Tao Te Ching, see the Afterword to my translation of the latter, pp. 14 1-42.

I am wondering what is your take in this parallel of terms of Karma and wuwei? and how wuwei should be interpreted in this sentence considering the content of this chapter?

Thanks

On 6/3/2021 at 12:06 PM, z4py said:

Hello!

 

Zapy here. I am currently a 29 year old who lives in Barcelona. I have been a practising Buddhist for the past 8 years, but switched to Daoism after falling in love with the Dao De Jing, Taiji and Qi Gong. I currently study in the Wudang Taoist Wellness Academy under Master Gu. I hope I can make valuable contributions to the forum. Nice to meet you all.

How happened that transition from Buddhism to Daoism? What was about the DDJ, Taijiquan or Qigong that sparked your interest?

On 5/29/2020 at 9:21 AM, silent thunder said:

How I miss your presence old friend...  but how grateful to have so many of your insights here to revisit.

 

So grateful you shared so generously of yourself... your presence resonates on, through your shared insights.

 

peace

Indeed, his presence was constant and opinions were much appreciated. It is amazing how life can be seen as an idea
not a reality, it is only we age that we realize more about life and still don't know much living ignorant. It is amazing!!

Have someone read his Zhuangzi translation? Any opinion or help to share reading his translation? I have Mair but I find it a good reading as a past time reading not as a reference translation to understand the original text or how Zhuangzi writings is understood in Chinese culture. Is it really worth to buy it if one is interested in learning more about ZZ philosophy, the meaning of his parables and how is interpreted or taught in the Chinese culture?

Thanks

Is there really and equivalent for this word junzi in western languages?

And what are other people opinion about his interpretation? Is this his own interpretation or is this interpretation based on traditional scholar studies?

On 1/8/2021 at 2:58 AM, freeform said:

 

Nothing wrong with it, no. We've all been parasites as little children!

so are you saying you are not a parasite, is that what you are saying, if you are not, bravo!! you have crossed the river to Nirvana

On 1/8/2021 at 2:58 AM, freeform said:

 

What is wrong (imo) is when you make a big deal about inequality, but fail to see that you're causing inequality by being a parasite.

 

This is called ignorance.

who's talking about inequality? I thought this thread is about desire, right? And if you are qualifying me by being an ignorant parasite, I grant you that, happy now?

On 1/8/2021 at 2:58 AM, freeform said:

I call it self-deception.

 

You project that you care about equality - yet you're willing to take more than you give.

Great, it sounds you are educated to name what you want, it is your right and it is your opinion, like I said before everyone has an opinion and opinion is like a b...hole, everyone has one so feel entitled.

On 1/8/2021 at 2:58 AM, freeform said:

 

Robin hood wouldn't be a celebrated character if he took from the rich and kept it all for himself...

 

You know when people say - 'the system is corrupt'... well one's own internal system can also be corrupt... it's corrupted by ignorance, by lying to yourself. The 'Daoist mentality' involves introspection and discernment.

How great, what is Daoist mentality in your opinion, why don't you give some references in the original text, commentaries, paraphrase and understood by English translations so we can all learn from you?

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

If you don’t want to pay - then don’t pay. 

Yes, I don't pay, I pay what I want to pay and consider fair to pay especially books. And that is my desire so not sure if that fits in the Daoist mentality.

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Take things that are freely given. Particularly if you are exceptionally poor (unable to feed, clothe or house yourself). Charity was designed for exactly such situations.

Are you exceptionally poor? Are you talking poor as you have been or been in that situation not able to feed or clothe yourself? I don't understand why I need to take things that are freely given. So many seminars I have been where people go to get whatever paper or gadget even though clearly don't need it or when they serve refreshments they gobble as much as they can, just because it was free. And someone said there is no free lunch, if it is free then there a price to pay.

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

But insisting that someone who charges for their teachings that they shouldn’t be charging - that’s essentially being a parasite - and feeding off that person.

A parasite, what is wrong being a parasite, aren't we all parasites? Or are you a special specie of humans that is perfect with no faults?

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

If you force someone to give you what they have - that’s called exploitation.
 

Take it from them without asking and that’s called stealing.

 

Nothing is ‘free’... Either the exchange is fair or it’s parasitic.

 

Like a colonial power pillaging a native population for all the value they can extract.

 

Or a mining company destroying an ancient forest because there’s a bit of molybdenum in the subsoil and it’s just there ‘free’ for you to take.

 

If you want to be a parasite then go ahead - you’ll be in good company.

 

But don’t fool yourself with justifications and ignorance.

I rather being ignorant so I learn from those who don't point others as ignorant.

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

The most insidious thing is when people justify parasitic behaviour as some sort of social justice thing. You talk about equality and all that stuff - but then your self entitlement gets the better of you - surely you deserve to get the things you want but not pay for them.

Who's talking about social justice or equality? Oh do you mean I ask as question on both to know about what some eastern philosophical think about those terms, well my dear, self entitlement as you say it is only your opinion, and you know what an opinion is?
 

If you only take and don’t give, you’re a parasite. Simple as that.

 

Again what's wrong being a parasite? Maybe you are not so good for you, assuming is wonderful and you know the meaning of assume, right?
 

And that’s fine... there are many parasites in nature.

Maybe we should review some biology 101 classes about parasites not sociology

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Just don’t pretend it’s for some higher cause. That’s just bullshiting yourself. Be a parasite and be proud  

 

Who's bullshitting here so far?
 

Years ago I used to download pirated movies - I didn’t care. I justified it by thinking Hollywood makes too much money as it is..

 

Hmm wonder why you download pirated movies? Don't you have money maybe?

 

But that’s bullshit. There are thousands of people employed to create movies. And most of the movies I prefer aren’t the big Hollywood blockbusters.

 

Eventually I grew up and faced the truth of my actions - I was being a parasite. I was stealing.
 

I don’t need to watch all these movies - these days I rarely watch them... but if I do, then I contribute.

 

Now I prefer to give more than I take - or at least do my best in that endeavour.

 

Apparently your endeavour was to download pirated movies
 

 

7 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

But was it good? 

Would you prefer to find some old cached material rather than what is available online now? Or, use that old material rather than finding a teacher today? 

 

If so, there are many really cheap old used books covering this area, why not just use that instead of insisting that teaching should be cheap or free? 

My desire is that as long as there is no push for the sake of making money then is all fine. YouTube implemented the technology to have larger files and watch long documentaries. In the beginning all was free and little by little they started adding ads and now they are pushing you to subscribe. If it all about money then I don't need to buy, knowledge is not only in the books, it is on your own experience. I guess Buddhists and Daoists say the same thing about knowledge.

On 12/14/2020 at 1:28 PM, freeform said:

I personally think it’s an actual privilege to be able to help my teacher in some way. My main teacher refuses payment - so I have to get creative in finding ways to benefit him and his family. 

Isn't that a culture attitude refusing a payment? It is your desire to help me, isn't it? It should be a mutual thing as all humans do in one way or another.

On 12/14/2020 at 1:28 PM, freeform said:

 

Why should someone who dedicated their entire life to doing something incredibly difficult and helping thousands of people - end up starving, unable to keep a roof over their heads because someone thinks information should be free? An absolutely ridiculous, parasitic attitude

Worst part is people will use all kinds of semi political justifications for their views - when in reality it’s just simple self-interest and entitlement (I want stuff, I deserve it and I don’t want to pay for it).

If dedicated their entirely life doing what they wanted, wasn't their choice? Why should someone starve? especially in this time of waste and more choices to get food in industrialized countries. Why should someone pay when most of the masters I have seen, have a job and had secure a job and share their extensive knowledge. In the beginning of the internet, most of everything was free and little by little it monetized their investment and today is all about paying and if not, they will get your information, not only they make you accept their terms they will oblige to push that button to follow you. Is it my desire?

On 11/30/2020 at 4:00 PM, daojones said:

The painting "the vinegar tasting" has the answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_tasters

18 hours ago, thelerner said:

Wish I could find it, but Taomeow had some fascinating views on Daoism and luck.  I wish I remembered more but Daoism has a system for creating luck.  Heck its what amulets and Fu's are all about.  

 

 

Do you remember what it was? Are you also talking about Majosi, the guy nobody likes and considered fake? This question about creating luck has made me ponder, why do we say I am lucky or someone is lucky and all I can think, we look for that balance, a better way that the usual way. And why do we say bad luck? Some people live in misery or we fall in misery because our own mistakes and some will get out of that and get better. Would I prefer living in a car, which I did because my mistakes or living in a house with a garden living comfortably? I would prefer living comfortably with all the necessary items and keep going then I see opportunities arise and new good things happen. Thus, we create our intention and grab what is good for us then we call it luck.

13 hours ago, thelerner said:

The scientist in me says no.  Luck is a word we use for events that fall on the far sides of the probability curve. 

 

Whereas the regular me thinks, sure.  There are times I've been quite lucky.  Matter of fact an almost dependable luck.  

Precisely, we can argue that average or median are inevitable so luck doesn't exist. If you have touched bottom in life for reasons that you created yourself and then things go down hill, then is bad luck, but if you keep doing what should be right for you, assuming you are doing the right thing as not getting worse financially or mentally, then there is a chance that you encounter the right situation and that is where you jump in. It seems that luck could be those unpredictable moments in life that if you are there, you catch it. There should be a reason each culture has luck in their repertoire of beliefs.

I've wondering if luck exists or is it an incident in life weren't aware because we're overwhelmed by the superficialities of life and all the excuses we keep inventing or creating problems without knowing the consequences or how to handle life. Not sure what far east thoughts on luck if luck exists 

2 hours ago, thelerner said:

I may not want to live there, but I'd sure like to visit a place w/ no electricity, someplace simple, with books and writing material.  A few board games.  Stay there for a good while and get back to.. myself.  

I guess you can think in that way because you can and you know where you are is better than other places, if you didn't I doubt you will go there.

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

When I think about humanity, and the honor of the Gods, and the honor from mankind...  and I think about technology, and art, and governing, I realize that so few of us lead great lives, and that the only way to be great, should you have no place in society or science, is to be a great person of moral truth and dignity.  

It sounds being privileged, away from the realities of this world, poverty, misery and struggles

I saw this book reference in one of the postings without much information or review. I wonder if someone has read it and if anyone has an opinion about this book and how helpful is this reading. Thanks