Mig

20 hours ago, old3bob said:

nature does not play favorites or unfavorites with anyone...to be or come under the laws of nature if you mean "the law of the jungle" can be tough, yet we also know nature as mother to all beings on earth.  

 

how do you know that nature is the mother to all beings on earth? if there constant destruction and survival in nature, what's the purpose of creating each being. What kind of mother is that? If I look in the animal kingdom animals have some kind of affection to each other in their pack, so it is not all violence that I see in nature

I keep reading in different texts to follow nature, emulate water and be connected to nature and I am wondering did they think or do they still think nature is all good. When you look at nature, there is always something going on, not for the best for humans but to survive as nature is not clement. So why don't they mention the bad side of nature, the cruelty of nature and the disasters we see every day and in the wilderness nature has no benevolence (DDJ Ch 5). Why is so important to obtain the Dao if Dao is related to nature? Just wondering and you can probably can help me to understand better the idea behind "nature"

Thanks

I think in the Historian Records for Sima qian,  chapter 63, ‘Biographies of Laozi and Hanfei’ [laozi hanfei liezhuan老子韩非列传]: there is a passage about the Master Kong talking about Laozi as a dragon.

  ，吾知其能飛；魚，吾知其能遊；獸，吾知其能走。走者可以為罔，遊者可以為綸，飛者可以為矰。至於龍，吾不能知其乘風雲而上天。吾今日見老子，其猶龍邪！

I know that birds can fly, I know that fish can swim, and I know that wild animals can run. Those that run can be [trapped in] nets. Those that swim can be [caught by] fishing lines. Those that fly they can [be shot by] arrows trailing a silk string. But with dragons I cannot know if they ride the winds and clouds and ascend to the heavens. Today I met Lao Zi, who is just like a dragon!

What's this story all about?

On 7/23/2023 at 1:06 AM, Kojiro said:

The war is fought because the emperor orders it, because for whatever reason is in his perceived interest to wage war.. The generals and the whole army just obey his orders.

If that manual was used as a manual and with all the philosophical currents and the religious moralists, why didn't they stop the carnage, looting and destruction from what we know in China history. What's so new about that little booklet?

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

I would interpret that the art of war is do not go into battle unless it cannot be avoided. The entire book is suggesting if a war was fought, then, the goal is how to win or lost with minimal cost.

Isn't that what happened throughout all mankind history? and isn't there is no winner or loser in a war, everyone losses except those old geysers who send young kids to kill each other?

On 7/18/2023 at 12:34 AM, Taoist Texts said:

Mair misunderstood this. The main point of this chapter and the entire book is to never go into battle. 

 

 

Thanks for the translation and observations. If the entire book is to never go into battle why battles have always existed especially in China? As for the translation why people translate: The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

On 7/12/2023 at 10:13 AM, stirling said:

Reminds me of:

 

 

Shìgù bǎizhàn-bǎishèng, fēi shàn zhī shàn yě; bù zhàn ér qūrén zhī bīng, shàn zhī shànzhě yě.
是故百戰百勝，非善之善也；不戰而屈人之兵，善之善者也。

Ch 3《謀攻 - Attack by Stratagem》

Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.  Gilles translation

And Mair's translation:

For this reason,
being victorious a hundred times in a hundred battles is not
the most excellent approach. Causing the enemy forces to submit
without a battle is the most excellent approach.

and summarizes: The main point of this chapter is that one should only go into battle when one has the advantage. It closes with the famous dictum about knowing oneself and one’s opponent.

I am having a problem understanding the original and the English translation. Any ideas?

I couldn't find a discussion about this novel and would like to hear what you have learned from this succinct novel and how it has been helpful in learning about Daoism.

Thanks

14 hours ago, Barry Fannon said:

Hi

I'm a newbie, want to say hello to everyone and hopefully learn something new.

I am currently practicing zhineng chilel qigong on michael chan website, and am thoroughly enjoying it.

Anyone else practicing this.

Love

Barry

Many of us are newbies for many years, so don't worry some here may help. I saw Luke Chan videos on Youtube and found his DDJ interpretation useful, not the best but useful. I wonder why the name of chilel, what the lel means in the compound word?

On 4/13/2023 at 7:23 AM, steve said:

I find the word nature to be a useful English word when speaking of 自然. For example, it is in the scorpion’s nature to sting, the nature of water is wetness, it is natural to cry when sad. All of these things refer to the self-so and spontaneous aspect of things, no?

Isn't that more of a characteristic or properties? I still don't know how the Chinese layman will understand such concept??

On 4/6/2023 at 11:39 PM, Taoist Texts said:

there is no 'nature' there. 'nature' us a western concept. to transl 自然 as 'nature' is wrong. 自然 is 自 self/from 然 so/it. 自然 means something that happens from-it-self. on its own.  spontaneously. thats where this spontaneity comes from.

I guess is the English translation that may confuse me. Could you give an example of real life to self, so/it? An example to understand in plain English for the plebe like me.

28 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

here;)

https://ctext.org/zhuangzi/ens?searchu=spontaneity

no;)

so it is more as in 应之以自然 in accordance to nature, so where this spontaneity comes from. I am sorry I don't see how nature can be spontaneous as if something happens is for a reason, just like atoms and whatever goes on in nature, constant flow and recycling, who knows.

On 3/10/2023 at 6:43 PM, ChiDragon said:

 

Spontaneity is human action responsive or according to an event.

 

Natural way is the act of nature.

Where in zhuāngzǐ 莊子 talks about spontaneity? Or is it the interpretations that explain more about the natural way and it is translated as spontaneity?

On 8/14/2022 at 1:03 PM, zerostao said:

fair question. There are many ways to phrase the answer.

One way to say it is to be perfectly aligned// in harmony with Dao

This is all confusing. Could you elaborate in plain English how can something be perfectly aligned? Does that exist being perfect in anything? It sounds that you compare yourself to the Dao to pretend to be in harmony. What kind of Dao is that?

On 2/10/2023 at 8:53 PM, ChiDragon said:

 

You are right. This is only to convey the thought of spontaneous which it is not the philosophy of Zhuangzi. Zhuangzi does not concern who will be a virtuous person or not. He just want things to be happened in a  spontaneous natural way.

Where do we find in zhuāngzǐ 莊子talking about spontaneous natural way?

On 2/13/2023 at 1:23 PM, ChiDragon said:

Spontaneity is something that happen on its own. It was not meant to be controlled or learn how to do it. It has to be acted out naturally with no intent.

What about your own reflexes? How does it happen on its own? What examples can you give if it is not meant to be controlled?

It seems that spontaneous acts need to defined with examples. For example if I am in the middle of something and I start drawing out of the blue something all new and impressive, I would say I did it spontaneously. How would you say that in Chinese?

2 hours ago, Christopher Tricker said:

 

Graham's translation attempts to sort Chuang Tzu's writing from the morass of writings that make up the Chuang Tzu. It is worth reading for that reason alone. The only other translation that does this is the new translation by Christopher Tricker (that's me). My new translation picks up the baton that Graham left some 40 years ago. You can check it out at http://thecicadaandthebird.com

 

Graham's translation includes a good introduction--he discusses some of the key terms, and the historical context of the text. Note, thought, that he doesn't interpret the parables.

 

My new translation also includes a commentary--after each parable I provide an interpretation. You might find my book useful as a launch-pad for forming your own interpretations? If you do look at my book, please let me know what you make of it. I'd love to hear your response. 

Thank you for your kind response. It is interesting that you are the first one who made a remark about Graham translation in this forum on this posting. I took a quick look of your website and I was struck about still using an old transliteration imposed by the English speakers of that era with the help of local native scholars. Pinyin, although not perfect, maybe the Korean hangeul is more precise by its phonological notation, still widely accepted, just like Latin alphabet is accepted around the world. More curious, is that even pinyin still taught in schools, people forget to add the accents or tones, just like you do when you spell words in French. Something that I have noticed that most translations miss the cultural, philosophical and linguistic aspect just like Zhuangzi and Confucius are great gateways to understanding the heart and world of Chinese intellectuals, both in the past and today.

So now, I am curious to know where those commentaries come from? Is that your proper interpretation from the point of view of a western European?

Thanks

13 hours ago, Nintendao said:

In Tai Chi, the Three Internal Harmonies describe a progression through "shen yi qi li"

神 (1) 意 (2) 氣 (3) 力

 

1. Shen, a pervasive shining spirit, localizes as awareness within the field of yi, heart/mind. All things, even empty space, contain at least some fragment of consciousness. Attention on attention brings this potentiality into focus. This is sometimes called the spirit blessing the mind.

 

2. Yi, intention moves at will throughout the body. Like gently leading an ox with a leash, attention placed within a location then sparks up an increase of the energy reactions taking place there. This is often called the mind leading the qi.

 

3. Qi, the vibrations then imbue into the flesh and bone support and strengthening, li. This is called how they say "breathe into" some part or other.

 

As I always like to point out, this is only a certain angle of looking at it.

What is 神  shén? it sounds more than awareness, isn't it? or what's spirit in practical terms? Is it just an abstract term that everyone or a lineage take it for granted?

On 6/13/2022 at 2:35 PM, treebuffalo said:

Does anyone think the very short Chapter 40 is part of another chapter? Henricks says it's usually inserted between 41 and 42. Pine says some authors merge it with other chapters (but doesn't specify who). But most interestingly it ends with language that starts 42. 

 

If other discussions about 40 exist please link them. 

 

 

Isn't the thought of returning to the original  found also in chapters 14, 16, 25, 28, 30 and 52?. Is it cyclical or the flow between hard and soft where soft always prevail?

On 5/31/2022 at 9:18 PM, treebuffalo said:

Chapter 37 contains a strange phrase "fu yi" (characters 37 and 38). which don't seem to fit well into the flow of the chapter. According to J. Star it means "truly/now/what follows is true" and "in turn/again/moreover/also," respectively. I tried to ignore them as utility words, until I switched definitions of "yu" (character 41/ 43) from "desire" to "habit." Both are listed among the definitions for "yu" along with "tendencies." 

 

So now the sentence might read "now again free of habit," which is a paradox. And as we all know, the DDJ is nothing if not paradoxical. I like this translation better than "desire." We all know desire is a bad thing, but habit? It makes sense to me that forcing habit on the world may just be as bad as desire. The desire to have predictability in an unpredictable world. 

 

Are you following the English translation or the original text in Chinese? It seems all translations from the original point to desire but nothing else. Where did you get that the word "yu" is habit?

3 hours ago, awaken said:

你們如果被氣功大師騙去練胚胎呼吸

 

那就真的永遠無法得知真相了

 

If you are tricked by a qigong master into practicing embryonic breathing

Then you will never know the truth.

請老師， 什麽是胚胎呼吸？怎麽練習？怎麽學的？

9 hours ago, Gerard said:

Indeed forest dweller

 

Taoism is within EVERY SINGLE BEING  IN EXISTENCE...and not only on Earth and on this plane.

 

Just the task of discovering it is another thing entirely.

 

Dog & Tiger make the best of friends and also with the Horse. The three belong to the category of MOVING/INDEPENDENCE SEEKING category. The others are:

 

1. THINKING: Buffalo/Ox, Rooster & Snake

2. POWER: Rat/Mouse, Monkey & Dragon

3. SENSITIVE/EMOTIONAL: Rabbit, Pig/Boar & Sheep/Goat

 

How those animals represent those human thoughts, I would say arbitrary descriptions because I don't see a thinking ox, there are other animals that seem smarter than an ox, just like power and sensitive. All animals have some kind of attributes or personalities so put them in one basket, seems to be a story coming from fairy tales.

There were actually two southern Shaolin Temples. The first one, known to the public, was situated in the city of Quanzhou (泉州), built by a Ming Dynasty emperor who moved the status of the Shaolin Temple as the imperial temple from the northern Shaolin Temple at Henan to this one. When the Qing Dynasty overthrew the Ming Dynasty, some Ming generals retreated to this temple to plot against the Qing.

A Qing prince, Yong Zheng (雍正), infiltrated into the temple as a monk to find out its secrets. When he became the emperor, he ordered the Qing Army, with the help of Lama kungfu experts from Tibet with their notorious flying guillotines, to burn down the temple.

Some top level kungfu masters escaped. One of them was the Venerable Chee Seen (至善禅师), spelt as Zhi Shan in Romanized Chinese, who built a secretive southern Shaolin Temple on the Nine-Lotus Mountain (九莲山), also in Fujian Province. This second southern Shaolin Temple was also burnt down by the Qing Army under the order of Emperor Yong Zheng, and led by Pak Mei (白眉), a Shaolin grandmaster who was a senior classmate of Chee Seen.

On 9/13/2020 at 11:12 AM, Sketch said:

Exactly the sort of concerns I was having before I started my current project. I was picking through a couple of translations of the Inner Chapters when I wondered how hard it would be to use internet translation apps, availability of  research  materials and other resources to "do it myself" and immediately realised that Lao Tzu's book  was much shorter, and not as daunting a place to start with a new to myself language. I am this far as far as dealing with the language of Zhuangzi :

Which Shaolin temple, the one is Fujian province? Or the one in Henan province?