Mig

58 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Good question that deserves a somewhat tangential/expanded answer.  (You probably mean "birth day" rather than "birth date?") 

 

 These are terms used by some bazi schools (bazi is not exactly feng shui and not exactly astrology -- the closest description IMO would be "destiny analysis" and the practitioners were sometimes known as "qi readers" or "spirit readers" but mostly just "bazi readers.")  The "animal of the year of birth" taken out of context is a phenomenon of pop culture, and any analysis based on that is fully bogus.  The real analysis may include all four animals (those of the year, month, day, hour of birth) or bypass them altogether, since each "animal" is a shorthand for the wuxing "moment" anyway, i.e. for particular types of qi derived from above and below (from the 10 Heavenly Stems and 12 Earthly Branches) acting on an individual destiny depending on the timing and nature of their interaction.  Each animal "contains" particular wuxing "elements" ( phases of qi) and interacts with all others "above" and "below."  To figure out how exactly, one has to have a very clear picture of the overall "ecosystem" of a destiny. Here's one way to think of it:

 

The "Year animal" is the climate -- if you are born, say, in Alaska, it's different from being born in the rain forest of Peru, and from the start you are under the influence of a different set of energies.  Only in this case it's the Alaska or Peru moment of the cosmic, heavenly qi (coming from the movement of the Heavenly Stems) and of the earthly qi (coming from the movement of the Earthly Branches).  Sometimes the year comes when you get Alaska above and Peru below, and the interactions get complicated.  Sometimes you get Alaska below and Peru above, and sometimes Alaska below and above, etc. -- only you are looking at, not 2 "places in time" but 10 gears interacting with 12, and each of the "gears" is in its yin mode or its yang mode, and each is of one of 5 types (wuxing phases of qi, or "elements" as they are popularly known) -- and that's the year alone, to say nothing of the smaller or larger periods -- so it gets pretty complicated. 

 

The "Month animal" is the weather at the time you're born -- which some schools see as a more significant factor than the climate.  Indeed, if you're born in Alaska on a warm July afternoon, it matters more for you individually than what the overall climate of Alaska is for the rest of the year.  Some bazi schools look at the month animal for the most broad generalizations about one's destiny, rather than the year animal.  Others, like I already mentioned, may bypass that "animal" thing altogether as superfluous, merely a metaphor for convenience, a mnemonic device.

 

The "Day animal" is, following the same metaphor, the house you're born in -- again, it may determine more in your individual destiny than the climate or weather.  So, some schools "broadly generalize" around that.

 

The "Hour animal" is, again, significant in your personal destiny -- is it the hour when normally people eat dinner, go to bed, watch TV, chop wood or carry water? -- or the hour when someone accidentally set the house on fire? -- or the hour when plumbing suddenly failed and the pipes burst? -- and so on.  So, again, important.  

 

The names you cited, which may be used by some bazi schools but not others, merely reflect that significance of each, again metaphorically.  E.g., in my experience as a bazi reader, the hour's "secret" animal may be "secret" merely because many people don't know what it is.   

Thanks a bunch and now I can see where that idea came from and most likely from the Four Pillars of Destiny. Your explanation is clear and instructive. It is much helpful.

Thank you for sharing and I am impressed by your work in progress. It is great to see how you have evolved and the way you are growing. Fantastic. Keep it up my friend!

^{Does anyone know where the inner animal: birth month,  true animal: birth date and secret animal: birth hour come from? I was trying to find the equivalent in Chinese with no luck so I wonder if those terms are specific to fengshui in  their lingo or is there a different equivalent in Chinese? Just curious.}

On 7/8/2021 at 11:36 PM, enuffing said:

Not sure if anyone here is keeping up with these videos..? Here is the latest one!

Chinese idiom “Mantis stalks cicada, unaware of magpie behind.” [螳螂捕蟬, 黃雀在後] Inspired by Chapter 20 of the Zhuangzi.

I found this chart interesting to understand Zhuang zi：

Any thoughts on this?

20 hours ago, thelerner said:

From- https://www.wikihow.com/Read-Your-Chinese-Horoscope
 

In 2022 and 2023 we (mostly) in Water.

Know your element. Almost done! Now we're getting to your element. On the outside, it's quite simple. Just take the last number in the year of your birth!^[2]

• 0 or 1: Metal
• 2 or 3: Water
• 4 or 5: Wood
• 6 or 7: Fire
• 8 or 9: Earth
  • What does this mean? Again, it's a cycle, this part emphasizing movement and change. Whatever element you are will naturally be emphasized, but how does it mix with the element of the current year? It is believed that the element of the year is the dominant one -- some years will work with your element, while others will work against, creating harmony and disharmony.
  • There are believed to be two cycles: the creative cycle and the destructive cycle.
  • For example, water destroys fire but produces wood and so forth. Each element affects others in different ways, ideally creating a perfect balance.
  • It is believed that the elements line up with the 4 seasons. Wood is the strongest in spring, fire in summer, Earth during the season transitions, and so on.
  • Each element is dominant for 2 years in a row. The cycle repeats every 10 years (there being 5 elements and all).

 

 

<addon being born in Oct 1964 makes me a Wood Dragon.  A dangerous combination, mostly to myself

 

Great finding, what happened when there is only two seasons, the dry and rainy season? how the 5 elements line up with the two seasons? Also, when the cycle repeats every ten years when there are 12 animals in the Chinese zodiac?

And how do you feel about the new people or interventions in this forum? And how do you see yourself in your learning curve when you joined this forum and now?

How do we know is the year of the element water?

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, English is a crap language for such subjects anyway .... even in psychology we adopt terms from German , in spirituality we adopt terms from eastern languages . English seems good for commerce .

 

Wow !  You picked a good example with 'shen'   

 

Can you show ANY clear and exact consensus  what the east means by that word , and then try the same to find consensus ( I am talking deep meanings here , not superficial ones ) in English what 'self'  means .

 

As far as people having a concept  of what self means for them  (as opposed to translating the word ) , I think they have as clear  ( ... not )  an understanding of that as they do of 'God'  (and again, I dont mean on a superficial level ; usually if one talks to the average person on such matters, deeply, and questions their statements , they often get more  and more confused and end up describing all sorts of confusion   .... and very personal specific confusions .

 

So, to get back to my point ..... to understand 'shen'  or even  'self'   I would look into a wide range of subjects , when looking at the western ideas , I would look for deeper understandings within religion and psychology and not just some surface definition. Then compare it with the eastern writings and look for underlying patterns ( see my  spoiler box above )   .

 

For me ,  the 'truth' or the 'bona fides' of a practice  lays within these underlying patterns , cultural accretions are just the clothing .

 

Let me start saying I am not an expert but a long life learner and I wouldn't venture to understand everything what a good Chinese scholar understand better. What I have found is that Chinese culture practice inclusiveness in folklore, popular religion, religious movements, philosophy, TCM and literature to mention a few.  The body 身 (shen) plays an extremely important in role in different arts and in terms as in the cultivation of the self, self-cultivation ‘xiushen’ (修身). Literally, the word 修 (xiu) means ‘to repair,’ ‘to mend,’ ‘to fix,’ or ‘to embellish,’ while the word 身 (shen) means ‘body.’ Xiushen literally means ‘body-fixing,’ ‘body-repairing,’ or ‘body cultivation,’ while in its figurative sense, it denotes the cultivation of the self with one’s moral character. Many Confucian classics, such as Mencius, Daxue (Great Learning), Liji (Book of Rites), and Zhongyong (Doctrine of the Mean), provide numerous explications of how xiushen builds the moral character of a noble person.
Check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-cultivation

That will be a good start to see that cultural elements are important especially in Daoism

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

Either that or the 'original cultural stuff '    and 'elements' are also accretions . Otherwise why would  the original go to great pains to explain that it can not be explained . The original metaphors are metaphors  of that culture  and may not be accurately describing Dao accurately anyway .

 

Perhaps a better way of comprehending Dao is by looking for its presence in the expression of various cultural systems to gain an eclectic understanding cross - culturally and out of that, distil from  the cultural clothing  what the actual essence is .

 

As I don't believe Daoism is specifically cultural , it describes natural universal principles  .

 

And they are   'ever present everywhere ' .

In modern languages I've noticed speakers of East-Asian languages prefer to describe things in one kill-all word, whereas in real non-IELTS English, people just describe things based on context. And for example would you say that the term of self shēn身 that is used in the DDJ or in Zhuang zi or even Confucianists or even Buddhists is the same concept of our self in Indo european languages?

23 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

The Dao is a bellows.  We are patterned after the Dao.  We are the Dao.  You may have gone about as far as one can go intellectually on all this.  Now the bellows wants to go in the opposite direction.  It wants to go inside you, to examine your conditioning, to penetrate the egoic self, to remove the old beliefs.  The reverse geyser, as Nungers would say.  This is where self realization will be found.

Manitou,

I think there is an overwhelming consensus for you to stay or at least being present because you bring that light and wisdom rarely people have here or elsewhere. And you mentioned Culver City, a city I know very well and drove there million times in and out. Who knows, I may have seen you but we never met each other. Your observations are quite accurate and makes me think more. However, as much as we can talk about other religions or philosophical inquiries from other places, I always wonder if we take into consideration the cultural aspect, for instance, Daoism. As much their sayings may be universal in the human realm, I tend to think that there is always a cultural element we miss mostly because linguistic barriers or lack of knowledge in those cultures. Again, stay with us or keep in touch privately via this forum.

All the best,

Mig

As I keep reading, I was wondering if men are being emasculated in Daoism?? In their diets, they forbid you to eat garlic and other pungent roots, and they keep men separated from women in their rituals as for the rituals in their religion. Not sure if the DDJ simulates as the woman or mother are on top of the pedestal. Just wondering

6 hours ago, zerostao said:

I don't know the birds you're speaking of; I am sure they are remarkable. I'm sure they'd confuse me, at least until I'd have a lifetime around them. Here, I can tell if it's a mockingbird speaking cardinal or the cardinal, or a bluejay pretending to be a red tailed hawk. the bluejay antics work well on their fellow forest critters, who are not going to waste time finding cover if it is the hawk or just some bluejay. 

I can also tell if the night birds, whip-poor-will or barred owl has wings or stand upright on two legs ( prowlers) 

 

Nice. And I think some animals practice both that you mention.

 

Do you think some animals; be they , other primates, bears, cats, birds, fox, coyote, whichever animal,,,

cultivate and do so consciously? 

I doubt it or I would say I have no idea because I don't know what is their mind, all I can see is what I observe. Their language is beyond my knowledge and sometimes I wonder they probably say more with their body positioning, eyes or uttering sounds. I see my semi feral cat when I come to him in a nice way, he will show me his claws ready to attack and walk away because apparently he doesn't want to be bothered. Late at night, he can be in the backyard while the racoon come or skunk and walk by without any confrontation. I have the impression we humanize animals to assume their behavior or their reactions. However, I see our pet when her mom comes back she runs everywhere and is so excited to see her again. Something about animals that we don't know or will never know because we haven't been animals to know it.

I am not sure if someone has experienced looking at some humans who cannot think beyond their own needs but can believe in fairy tales. Not only that if they don't learn from books or from a teacher they won't be able to figure out some mechanical or engineering feats. Myself, there are things I would have never thought to build or assemble for practical reasons. I noticed that if I have some tools, I can figure out and when I cannot find a solution I check several sources to come up with an idea. It can be in the backyard, in the shed or in the front yard, trimming trees or fixing some tools. If I didn't have those tools, I think I wouldn't be able to find a solution by my own. In that respect, yes, I consider myself and idiot. Then my thoughts go back, how in the hell, I can learn about applying Daoists principals or Buddhists saying?

16 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

 

You live in the forest, right? So you are very aware of this. 

 

They think a lot less than us (if they ever do) so they can perceive and 'see' things naturally. 

 

Birds get crazy ever single evening right before sunset yet humans carry on with their activities as usual. Do why they carry on like that?

 

The sacred Yin you don't want to mess up with.

 

I have noticed by the beach seagulls at a certain time of the day especially before evening or sunset, they all sit looking at one direction on the horizon and they all seem in accordance of the environment. I see my three leg cat who loves to be outside and now since we are hosting a family rescued dog, who happens liking chasing the cat, now our cat wants to be inside of the house when the dog is inside. Still training the dog but even though the dog got hurt by the cat, still have this territorial instinct and keeps chasing the cat. Is that 無為; wúwéi?

I have been observing cats and dogs and other animals and I see that if they don't get what they want, I don't see them holding grudges or getting mad at you because you didn't give them what they wanted. I can see that when they want something they know how to tell you because I hear them vocalizing what they want in different ways then once they get it they move on and do their own thing. Now when it comes to territory they can be as nasty as a human but again I don't see them acting with hate as humans do. It made me think do they know 無為: wúwéi and is it what first Daoists saw to bring forth this concept?

3 hours ago, Seeking said:

Yes. By design. Not nature.

Aren't we conditioned by the social environment where we live in? Somehow it seems that we behave based on what we learn from others and are manipulated by what they say. If we survive in nature, chances we won't survive alone because our incapacity to find our way out unless we learn observing nature.

8 hours ago, natural said:

 

Simply put, yes, and don't worry be happy!

What makes you say " I am worried", I am making a statement of a situation that I keep observing wherever I go. It sounds like not to worry is more of a selfish act or ignoring what is around me and then be happy. I am not happy nor sad but I keep seeing the same thing and have hard time to reconcile what I am reading about Daoism or some Buddhist sutras.

I have been pondering about this question over and over without sharing with anyone. As I get older, I realized all the mistakes I have done, all my reactions and attitudes toward others and observing humans I always ask myself, are humans idiots? Since we are almost done with 2021, I thought we could have learned better but still see human stupidity at the highest level. Looking in the environment where I live, I see how people feel entitled to say or do whatever they want (of course, I am generalizing but I see that more and more from younger individuals) and wash their hands even if they were wrong. Road rage, car chasing, pick up a fight seem to be far common these days and everyone knows that the outcome is not glamorous or ends in a tragic accident or incident. Then I look how people around the world still believe in fairy tales, marketing or God's truth to repeat the same history as in the past. Looking at the news about Nicaragua, Central America, fiasco in their election is in the news but apparently news ignore what's happening in Honduras where history is repeating by itself and people again, are living in poverty and misery but still believe in politicians and religious movements. If I look what's going on in other countries around the world, is not better either and by this time I would consider human conditions should be better at least to have water to drink or water for irrigation, better living conditions or better education. In the 70's I used to travel before traveling was a trend and found so much bad conditions in human life and today, thanks to YouTube or internet, I see the same situation. Are humans idiots?

2 hours ago, Sketch said:

I've been informed by Buddhist authors, but I never went through a period of "shopping" Buddhism vs. Taoism. 

I thought historically there was a struggle for power in every dynasty between those two factions and even within each several movements some with more power than others.

8 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Interesting. It's been a while since I read it, but I don't remember seeing any direct connection between the DDJ and inner alchemy. Do you know where it is?

Isn't the other way around? Aren't all those practices referring to the DDJ? and even the Yijing?

Thanks for sharing my friend, it seems an awesome exhibition. Do tell us your impression, anything you learn from those paintings for what you have learned in Daoism or other spiritual paths?

On 10/11/2021 at 8:17 PM, Small Fur said:

 

 

 

 

 

One of the Three Clarities: The Embodiment of Lu Xing 祿星

 

 

Your question surmises that the spiritual nexus of well-being within a person's life has its basis in money; this is a common perspective around topics of power, because many expressions of life so often seem to coalesce in forms of power and this in turn can provoke both fear and desire in people.

Before I close this post, a word of reminder:  Prosperity like any other clarity realized in Consciousness, must arise from your De (virtue). So do not confuse the attainments of yourself or others made through strife to be those arising from wisdom- whether these appear to be 'attainments' in cultivation or material life. Rightful living, including the rightfulness of resource and abundance that is True prosperity manifests uniquely to each soul's path from wei wu wei (effortless action) ; do not try to justify or rationalize- to yourself or for others, the things which do not come from the virtue of benevolent light.

 

 

*Love is understandably, another big topic for people, and I won't get into it here, but by this I do not necessarily mean human emotionality, nor sociopathic ideation from lack of emotions, nor the science of bio-chemistry or instinct or drive; but I do mean what is great and that which can be experienced as the bliss of enlightenment)

 

Thank you for taking the time in sharing a good comment. I haven't seen a person who doesn't depend on money except the hermits and still money or other artifacts to trade have been used in human societies. Although your well written response, I still don't understand the Daoist point of view about money and not sure if Daoists are not necessarily well off or surviving financially. On your reminder what is wei wu wei ? How that is effortless when wu is just the negation of an action?

As I am reading several books from Eva Wong about Daoism, I see she refers in her writings to the Action and Karma school of Daoism, founded by Li Ying Chang. I am not sure if the school is her own translation or if this is the real name and I cannot find the founder name in Chinese either. Does someone knows the name of the Daoist school or sect and the name of the founder in Chinese?

Thanks

Personally, I think it is a good start and he's making an effort. For a beginner with a rudimentary knowledge of Chinese language, he's doing very well. He's a good inspiration for future generations. Why do you say " probably rather shallowly"?

On 8/25/2021 at 9:08 AM, liberale.ironikerin said:

Thanks for the hint, no, that's not what I meant.

 

Might have been this one: 

 

长

 

any other meanings than "long" / "grow"?

 

you probably already know this is the simplified version and it is pronounced differently
長