Mig

19 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

I am  sorry to be so long in replying to this, but the last week was very busy and this is the firs time that I can really put in the time for a thoughtful response.  The most important book that I read was this one:

 

 

I read it back in late November of 2000.  It was only the second book that I  had read on Confucianism.  I realized about this time that I had spent decades studying Daosim very deeply and even Buddhism to some depth, but that I knew little about Confucianism except for commonly held ideas about it, but was otherwise embarrassingly ignorant of an important part of Chinese society and history and that I needed to rectify that in order to have a clearer idea of the historical and social context of the other two religious/philosophical movements.  I decided that I would rectify that and read Arthur Waley's edition of Confucius' Analects, and while I found nothing that really excited me, I found it less of a put off than I thought it would be.  However, reading Tu Weiming's book was a complete reframe, and I realized that everything that most people thought about Confucianism was wrong, that it had a long held and deeply developed spiritual aspect of which most people had no idea whatsoever and I came out of that reading with a deep respect for Mencius, the Zhonyong and the Daxue, and many other aspects of Confucianism, as well as what I was to call "the mystery of Confucius", the mystery of why someone whose only surviving work was The Analects could have inspired someone like Mencius, and been such a deep and powerful influence on Chinese culture and history.  I like to solve mysteries and while I still cannot give a satisfactory answer to the question of why Confucius was so influential, I did learn to respect and value the Confucian tradition as a valuable and viable spiritual tradition in and of itself and which complimented Daoism in a positive way, and also gave me a more practical framework for living in the world than I had before.

 

I have been looking into the group which Aetherous mentions here:

 

 

and so far they seem to be both honorable and useful.  On their site they have some links to these works:

 

The first is a simple and readable text of The Analects which can be searched though online or down loaded as a PDF file:

• Stone Chimes: A modern English adaptation of The Analects of Confucius, searchable by book, topic, or person.

The second is a good readable translation of the Daxue and Zhongyong based on the authors years of teaching them on a college level:

• The Great Learning & The Doctrine of the Mean: An online teaching translation by Robert Eno.

The next three are links to The Chinese Text Projects site where the Chinese Text is alternated with the translations of Legge, which while dated are satisfactory.

• Mengzi: A Chinese & English version of Mencius.
• Liji: A Chinese & English version of The Book of Rites.
• Xiao Jing: A Chinese & English version of The Classic of Filiality.

Finally this one:

• Yangzi Fayan: In Chinese & English.

is translated by Jeffrey Bullock.

 

My comments in this post are useful:

 

 

and include a link to my post in a thread on Confucian qigong which describe the more spiritual of Confucianism.

 

I hope that this is useful.

 

ZYD

Excellent, I appreciate you sharing. I behind you as I am encountering the same problem, after reading the DDJ, I am continuing the ZZ and then KZ to understand better. Thanks again

On 10/16/2015 at 5:18 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

As a start this is probably the best modern translation/commentary on "The Great Learning" and "The Doctrine of the mean"

Ta Hsueh and Chung Yung: (The Highest Order of Cultivation and On the Practice of the Mean)

 

For a modern person these two are the best to start with because they are short and their style is more approachable than either the Analects or the Mencius.

 

The Chung Yung (Zhongyong) in particular is very profound and Tu Weiming's

 

Centrality and Commonality

 

Is an excellent study of it.

 

All of Tu Weiming's books are excellent, it was his:

 

Humanity and Self-Cultivaton

 

That transformed my understanding and opened the path of Confucian Dao for me.

 

I'll post more as I have time.

In which those books are excellent study and how it transformed your understanding of Kongzi Dao for you? Any online free PDF to share?

I was wondering how important is this text for those who are studying Dao jia (道家), ru jia ( 儒家 ) or Buddhism  and how much is to know to understand better all the three schools of thoughts in China both in the past and today.

On 3/12/2019 at 1:04 PM, thelerner said:

Author is Brock Silvers.  Who was a neighbor of mine growing up.  I think he became the real thing.   Learned Chinese, headed to the monasteries to learn and fix them up, protect them.  Along the way I think he became a true Daoist, I believe.  The book has more then its share of scorn for philosophical Taoists and wannabees (which I am).

 

The physical book is expensive, but the kindle version for $5.  The Kindle app is free on iphone and androids.  You can adjust font size, and I find its nice to have books on my phone.  One never gets bored.  Also I've learned that I can set up my Amazon Echo smart speaker to read Kindle books for free, if you don't mind them being read in the Alexa voice, ie not professionally. 

Thanks for the input. I avoid kindle and prefer paper cover books, will save some money to see if the book is worth buying it.

On 3/13/2019 at 4:20 AM, Taoist Texts said:

http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Three_Fasts

 

https://www.goldenelixir.com/publications/eot_jiao.html

 

now you do)

excellent resources. It seems most of Daoist denominations use the same jargon and similar rites, in this case jiao and zhai?? Thanks

20 hours ago, thelerner said:

So many questions.  For good deeper answers I'd recommend this book.  It does a good job answering questions on Taoism in terms of a religion, getting much deeper then so many 'pop' books that are on philosophy or techniques, which are by necessity watered down.  This book has solid information and the kindle version is just $5 https://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Manual-Illustrated-Applying-Taoism/dp/0967794811

Thanks, kind of expensive book. Wonder why is so expensive, is the author a true Daoist? or true practitioner?

21 hours ago, kondensation said:

9. Taoism has relevance to present-day as much as it always had.

10. A lot is still in Chinese culture even popular culture.

Thank you for your response. What do you mean has relevance as much as it always had? If I read some history, all we know is the history of those who were privileged so I am wondering how Daoism was relevant during those days and how they impacted people's lives. In which way is still in Chinese culture aside painting or CTM? I see some concepts they are used so not sure how you quantify a lot? Just curious. Thanks again

I still don't understand, the guy say some things that come from some Chinese teachings most likely someone who has some kind of understanding. It is true that he doesn't sound educated but some comments I wonder where does he get it. Just curious.

3 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Guess it’s more my stuff than any logical reason. 😊

It is true fake has become normal today and is acceptable. What can we do? Feeling sorry about them? It seems those kind of people manage to keep going, take a look of how many times he has changed. Even in the beginning I remember seeing kung fu videos he had and most likely he find resources that maybe educated versions of whatever he presents

On 3/3/2019 at 9:39 AM, Fa Xin said:

YouTube allows anyone to play a role and get accepted on some level by those who don't know any better.

 

Just watched one of this fellow's videos.  He is clearly living out his fantasy of being a Daoist master.  I feel kind of sorry for him.

Just wondering why feeling kind of sorry for him?

As I am perusing some sites, I found these questions that I would like to know some answers based on your knowledge on Daoism:

(2) Why Tai-Sheung Lao-Chun is revered by the Taoists

(3) How should we regard the worship of the Taoist Gods?

(4) Do you know the Taoist ways in questing for longevity?

(5) Do you know what are Chai and Chiao?

(6) Do you know the basic features of the canon of the Taoist scriptures?

(7) What do you know about the Taoist sects in Hong Kong and their relationship with those in China? 

(8) Do you know why Taoist monasteries are called Gong and Guan?

(9) Do you think Taoist beliefs are of close relevance to our present-day world?

(10) Do you think Taoism permeates the Chinese culture?

Your input is much appreciated. Thanks

2 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

Its easy really it tells you everything you ever need to know!

Don't take this personally, it seems that it tells you everything  to you but not to me unless I read commentaries and paraphrasing or inventions to make it sound esoteric, mysterious and fantastic.

2 hours ago, flowing hands said:

My favourite verse is the first verse.

 

The Dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao

The name that can be named is not the eternal name

The nameless is the Mother of Heaven and Earth

The named is the manifestations of the Ten Thousand things

Ever desireless one can feel ( heart) the mystery

Ever desiring one can see its manifestations

One appears as imperceptible, infinity upon infinity

Here lies the path of all mystery. 

 

It is just so complete

I don't know what is complete in this verse. For some is not the first verse but #39 the beginning of the second half of the book. If I read the translation and truly if I don't know the commentaries, the last two lines I wouldn't understand a thing especially the path of mystery. What kind of mystery? What kind of path?

On 12/9/2018 at 7:25 AM, OldDog said:

 

I have never heard them spoken of as having special meaning  ... they are not magic numbers. 

 

They are just a way of distinguishing forms that places some emphasis on the forms complexity in a general way. The forms can be looked upon as sets of movements and postures. When the forms are taught they are often taught progressively starting with the initial posture and opening movements and incrementally adding movements and postures over the course of training until the entire set is covered. But that does not mean one has mastered the form, quite the contrary. It simply means that you now have the ability to recall the set for further practice. You never really are done with the form. Teacher used to say a good form always has room for a little improvement.

 

As I look back on the training I did with the 74 and 56 form, I think the 56 form had less repetition in it. The 74 form has some postures that occur multiple times, for instance Pounding the Mortar and Single Whip occur multiple times in the form.

 

Generally, the traditional forms are longer. Newer shorter forms were developed, I think, largely as introductory forms or forms suitable for shorter practice intervals or demonstration purposes.

Other Kung Fu styles, especially in the south, use numbers that are part of the Chinese culture or even cosmology or related to Buddhism. That's the reason of my question.

14 hours ago, OldDog said:

Expect to learn Laojia Yilu (Old form First routine) as the the basic training. This 74 movment form is foundational but it will not look as dramatic as some demonstrations (including above) since the emphasis is on slow correct posture and movement. You may find that some will teach a 38 movement form created by Chen Xiaowang, and it is a very good form, but Laojia Yilu is the more traditional line of practice.

 

The 56 form above is not a traditional form in the truest sense. Within the Chen style there are several variations. The 56 form is a form that was developed for competition purposes that takes elements of the several variations and levels in Chen style in an attempt to provide a standard by which to judge Chen forms. It is a very good form but is not traditional.

 

 

 Is there a meaning on why 74, 38 in their understanding or just random numbers?

9 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

the article says that all of them are from DDJ

 

I see that 7) 返樸歸真 (to purity and innocence) is from  战国策齐策四 

處下 appears in the DDJ  so if I understand correctly, for the last 4 principles it derives from terms used in the DDJ, is that correct?

I found this reference in FB and I was wondering about The eight core Taoist principles in which the last 4 seems to be from different sources but not Daoist texts. Does anyone know if those last four are related to Daoists practice:

5) 知和處下 (Know harmony and be humble);
6) 以柔制剛 (Hold softness to defeat hardness);
7) 返樸歸真 (to purity and innocence) and
8) 順其自然 (Follow the rule of nature).

https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2013/fall/tsang?fbclid=IwAR1NB_DiFMkYHjTlzfA_bggdxcm5h9aYpGU9f2pVl6nj7TwXKIGkrx2Bf2A

Thanks

so far as I am reading this book, I find the notes and interpretation (certainly based on ancient commentaries) are very helpful and makes the translation much easier to understand. There are some minor typos but overall at this point, I highly recommend it.

2 hours ago, dawei said:

 

Your idea of "understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power" is something I've tried to get you to talk more about... is it about time we start a new thread on that ?

 

That will be a great idea, why not starting a new discussion to learn more about those general terms and give more real life examples to understand better if someone is interested in learning them

I wonder what interpretation or commentary is supported to his translation? I read few pages and it seems a good source for a new beginner

On 10/1/2018 at 4:20 AM, dosa said:

弱之勝强, 柔之勝剛, 天下莫不知, 莫能行
As Laozi says,
There is nothing softer and weaker than water in the world. There is nothing better than water to attack something hard and strong. Nothing can be exchanged for water.

You are not sure about Laozi, but I fully understand the meaning of your words.

Water itself is not relevant, what is important is the force behind, the energy to make it calmer, still or violent or aggressive

On 10/1/2018 at 2:22 AM, wandelaar said:

Yes - Taoist tactics are very opportunistic! A (philosophical) Taoist is continually looking for opportunities to get the things necessary for a peaceful and happy life done with the least amount of energy and/or trouble. But a Taoist doesn't care about wealth or fame, so he doesn't need to sell his soul to reach his goals. So although he doesn't care about petty morality, he isn't immoral either because he doesn't need to be so. To avoid unnecessary trouble he will usually follow current customs as long as they don't obstruct his preferred sober way of life.

Why looking for opportunities, doesn't that sound much egotistical? Why peaceful and happy? I don't see much peace in life, there is always struggle, some more than other, I eat foods and I can see destruction and nothing peaceful. I am trying to understand as the more I see the more I realize I need to be smarter and take advantage of what I need not necessary follow the rules.

On 9/30/2018 at 10:05 PM, Aetherous said:

I don't know about Daoism, but Seneca said that "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity". So if you want to have good luck and success, you both have to work hard toward goals, but then also seize any opportunities that present themselves. Rinse and repeat.

Opportunist has a negative connotation...but recognizing opportunities and taking them is very positive.

I see as you prepare yourself always having an eye of each opportunity and seize it. That's why I see being opportunist as well as predators do. I have noticed that poverty or street smart makes more aware of becoming opportunist. Now what do you mean about working hard, what is working hard, isn't better working smarter than harder more efficient? Even thieves master this one too. Yesterday, i was at the gym taking a shower, I put my shampoo by the shower then went to dry my swimming suit and when I came back a guy was already using my shampoo. He said, he thought nobody was using it. If you go to a third world country you can see how people have to be alert and opportunistic.

5 hours ago, Marblehead said:

The Taoist Sage refuses nothing.

 

An opportunity is offered, the opportunity is accepted (as long as it is within our capacity for accepting).

 

Could you give me an example of a situation?

I was wondering if we aren't all opportunists in life?? I see many so called successful people being just opportunists and then claim whatever to sustain their success. If you aren't then you become another prey and here it comes the victim. I have noticed that as I was job hunting and I was playing cat and mouse, me being the cat and the job or the interviewer the mouse. And then, what it could be the Daoist perspective on this?

Thanks