Pilgrim

Seems reasonable that 7 years of straight Samadhi could clear away the crap and leave the slate blank. A blank slate is balanced.

Bad karma changed to good karma is still karma. Realization is beyond karma.

Ah but he was not a blank slate.

I very much like your story. But, he did not carry his anger to the extreme. In your story, he realized the futility of such things and let it go... he simply walked away from it... and dropped his anger.

 

In our discussion, I would argue that with stepping away from the extreme, he refound his balance and the natural peace inside (or underneath). IMHO, your story seems to disprove your own position. To be consistent with your position, would he not instead become the worlds greatest ever murderer and thief, pushing it to the limit and then becoming enlightened from it. Exactly like your previous 100% yang example leading to perfect consciousness?

I agree he did not carry anger to the extreme.

I do not see this story as indicating though that he dropped anything let alone anger. He did not realize the futility of anger and let it go. He did not simply walk away. He was so miserable with it in fact he went to extremes to be rid of himself as he was.

What he did was enter Samadhi for a long period of time, the 7 years seems to indicate the severity of the entanglement of the Jiva with the forest of anger.

By entering Samadhi he sterilized the field so the seeds of hatred could no longer grow. With the field cleared of a particular crop another one became able to flourish.

The outward signs of his samadhi impacting natures environment are meant as an indicator of the degree of change.

This however is at the different end of the pendulums swing, there is no indication of a balance in the story.

He is not describing "being a gateway or channeling some broader being (or thing) and hence describing a dualistic situation"

 

He is speaking of a doorway into the world of non-attachment. Hence he "knows" nothing. As this is an unattached state.

A doorway with no doorkeeper - no position - If you enter you have not left - only that which did not exist is no longer.

 

He is stating that the presence that he is is the "doorway". It is not a doorway per say - you are already there but you are lost in the clinging state - it is like noticing you are as much the Air surrounding you as you are the you that you are preoccupied with.

You do not think of the Air as a doorway - but the air does not have attachment and it is as much a door as he is - but it does not speak english and yet your physical life is always about 1 minute from death without an incoming supply of it.

Exactly. Well said. & Simple

Your heart is open and you are beginning to feel/receive stuff there. Whatever you decide, I would suggest that some energy practices be part of it. With your starting to feel stuff, simple quiet meditation or mantra stuff alone might become a little "freaky".

Agreed 100%

Simple quiet meditation, mindfulness of breathing, and undirected mantra, especially undirected mantra are likely to be a source of difficulty in the beginning.

Simple quiet meditation and mindfulness of breathing are anything but simple.

Undirected mantra like a thing called deep meditation alone like certain websites push has caused many people big problems.

Thanks for your response. My points with the questions were really more about the possible methodology around realization. The guru's (and I think Dwai's) premise that 100% yang energy is an effective path.

 

Also, I think part of the challenge is that there are a lot of words above where we may have very different definitions (like our emptiness discussion). So if you don't mind, a few questions...

 

Are you saying there is nothing but consciousness? Or is there something beyond consciousness?

 

Is oneness being all of consciousness? Or is oneness something else?

 

Is awareness just a subset of consciousness that is sort of deluded in thinking itself "separate"? Or is awareness somehow separate or different than consciousness?

What are your answers to these questions Jeff?

1. Is there nothing but consciousness? Or is there something beyond consciousness?
2. Is oneness being all of consciousness? Or is oneness something else?
3. Is awareness just a subset of consciousness that is sort of deluded in thinking itself "separate"? Or is awareness somehow separate or different than consciousness?

I am still struggling with the changing of his personality to keep others seeking. Sadhguru, says, "The Guru-shishya relationship is on an energy basis. A Guru is touching you in a dimension where no one else can touch you". From my perspective when you are dealing with energy, there are two perspectives, yet still one being, the feminine (Shakti) and the masculine (Shiva), yin and yang or what some might call reception (the filter) and transmission. There is no manipulating that energy into anything, energies will naturally balance without any doing on the part of the guru or the shishya. If a bond is formed with an "limitlessly empty" guru, the energy bond and balance should be enough to sustain the seeker without any involvement of personality changes to suit the needs of the seeker, as it would be part a natural flow of where the energy leads. The energy is what shakes us up on the inside, and working with the guru, who is the conduit for said energy and sort of a stabilizer allows us to go deeper and to clear more than we would be able to on our own.

 

I am of the belief that once a person (guru or shishya) reaches a certain level of realization the personality naturally evolves and continues to do so, but is not to be engineered to suit perceived needs of another or to reach them in some manner. Being anything other than who you truly are for any reason is a form of manipulation. Shiva, at the highest levels, is unchanging, and as a gateway to Adiyogi, would Sadhguru not strive to be as Shiva, rather than a manufactured version of himself?

 

http://isha.sadhguru.org/blog/yoga-meditation/demystifying-yoga/what-is-a-guru/

See said it was simple.

Agree with you .

'Limitless emptiness' is just a subtle perception of consciousness, from within the consciousness. Who perceives the emptiness?

 

A door appears. Whether open or shut, both or neither, there is no door. Who perceives the door?

 

The Guru appears. Whether within or without, both or neither, there is no Guru. Who perceives the Guru?

 

Lost in perceptions, the perceiver remains oblivious of itself. Seeking must cease once having lost sight of the seeker.

Very well written. Thank you.

Jeff, Oh I see your point. Yes good, good thank you.

Yes, and he is describing himself as separate (or a gateway) from Shiva. Where compariably in Kashmir Shaivism, a guru is Shiva himself. Or you could say that one goes from the realization of Jiva, to more fully realize Shiva.

Also, I am not trying to disagree with him. Just pointing out that he is describing something different than what you would find in Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism, Taoism and Mystical Christianity. Which is why I questioned the "simple" post earlier.

I think knowing too much about traditions, sutras etc is getting in the way. For instance in my view he is not describing himself as separate from anything. To me he is describing himself as limitless emptiness. From this perspective he is generating personalities for the express purpose of keeping others seeking.

Yes it is simple.

What you think you know is okay with me Jeff.

I agree being nothing is only a piece of the puzzle.

In this instance it is impossible to be anything but dualistic. Make that multifaceted.

He has physical form a body.

The body of those who know not, has presence and personality by genetic inheritance, what we are, is in symbiotic relationship with these bodies we inhabit. This body is in symbiotic relationship with the microbes in it's guts which have affinities, and this continues down into the microscopic and beyond. 

These bodies have there own mind.

Without the dweller within though these bodies decompose as the animating principle is not sufficiently developed without the dweller within symbiotic participation.

In this manner the younger and the older serve one another in lifetimes and mutually advance. Your human body mind is young, the dweller within is older.

At some point the dweller within recognizes this or wakes up from the blending and the blending of so many fellow symbiotic minds or sub-minds holds sway less and less.

Different yogic practices can accelerate this. I am certain non yogic traditions have this component as well.

They also lead to personality changes. In time one realizes personality which changes is also impermanent and so the question who am I arises and with it the condition of limitless emptiness. The dissolution of the "I" This has been reported to happen all at once but mostly it happens in stages and degrees.

Like Jeff said a piece in the puzzle of different traditions. It is universal.

What he is describing has no choice but to be dualistic.

Being of dualistic nature of still being within human form while the dweller within develops into nothingness, emptiness of  limitlessness which the I has to dissolve to a certain extent before this can happen makes one a type of tuning fork for this and others tune in by his continuing presence and even remote presence as I am certain many feel the personality he chooses to fabricate is the scent of the flower.

In this case he is a fisherman of souls tugging the line. The question is why? What is the motivation? Perhaps this is just the way it works by design, one pays it forwards to continue on.

 

Sadhguru: As a person, I am quite terrible.

Perfect, Blunt, Stark, truthful, to the point.

 

As a Guru, I am absolutely empty.

 

I am a Guru because my ignorance is totally limitless, and that is all that matters. If something within you becomes limitless – whatever it is – it will work.

Cool lets chew together.

A person or a personality is a collection of fictions.

He is a guru because he releases the fictions.

The Guru is nothing to be guru is to be nothing, personalities can not be guru. Guru is everyone but not so long as they demand and insist on having a presence as a person or a personality.

Nothing is limitless.

Something always has limits it is defined. It has name, it has back story etc...

By defining one becomes something, that something is terrible. Personalities and persons are terrible, personality and persons can not stand this. Persons always have needs, and persons will always do what they have to to fulfill them. The most noble vegan is still a murderer.

When coming from nothingness to interact with those in something a simulacrum is produced and imbued with qualities for others to interact with. In this case he is telling do not hold onto it because it will change on purpose there is nothing here to hold onto.

This is not him because he does not exist.

This is true from the point of view of  limitless emptiness which is a state of abiding.

Limitless emptiness has no likes, dislikes, no preferences etc... it has existence but is existence for its own sake.

He has realized this but there is something left that desires to interact with others and help them realize this also.

If a person like so many who have realized these states coming from these perspectives flirts around with misbehavior then there realization is adolescent, this is how we receive the stories of the ugly gurus. There have been so many instances and stories they do not need repeated but in every case they are coming from this perspective and that is a common thread.

As far as I know this guys track record is clean.

"I am crafting a personality that creates enough of both so that their seeking never dies."

 

​The need to create or to craft a personality or a way of being is conflicting; if we are truly empty with no attachments there is no need or desire to craft anything, we just are who an what we are, be it a doorway, a guru, or just an average Joe or Jane.

It does not sound like you are chewing on anything more like you already made up your mind.

part coyote method, whatever turns your crank.

Lol

Pretty simple really.

What are you chewing on Kar3n?

By the way love the username.

I have known the old time cape engineers, have even seen blue prints of the lunar lander. They were all convinced it actually took place.

Did anyone see where Clintons Lawyers were asking Obama to pardon her? That is either a fake news story or one heck of an admission of guilt. Pretty sure she needs convicted first.

If they pull some stunt of convicting her then pardoning here before Trump gets sworn in tomorrow it will mark the end of Presidential Pardons which after what the outgoing president has pulled, proves the presidential pardon should not be permitted to be used by an outgoing president.

Yes a friend and I brought Sri Mukherjee over from India last year, he taught around 70 people the Original Kriya of the Pranabananda lineage while he was here and from him I was taught to initiate and teach others.

I have never initiated anyone and doubt I ever will I take the commitment far too seriously more so than many do including Sri Mukherjee.

Sri Mukherjee is a wonderful teacher.

In trying to more deeply understand peoples interpretations of love, I'd like to ask in a forum where most people have an interest in cultivating love some hard questions and check out variance in the answers....

 

I wonder if you think it's ok to kill rats when they are in plague proportions (knee deep in your back garden)?

Would you ever put down poison if your house was infested with ants.

Would you fumigate (or get somebody else to) if termites were eating your house and making it unsafe to live in? Or would you just try to sell it to somebody else?

 

What would us spiritual people do in these situations   How loving would we be to these pests, or even.... enemies?  If a dog was run over and whimpering while really messed up, would you shoot it to put it out of it's misery or leave it in pain, perhaps for hours, until it's last breath?

 

Would you be cruel to be kind? Would you be kind while inflicting cruelty? Or do you see it differently?

 

Would you try to avoid the truth and not answer?

 

Thanks for your time

I would like to invoke the Obi Wan Kenobi clause:

The answer depends greatly upon ones point of view.

I have read romantic stories of Zen Masters who when robbed were thankful that the thief also took their cloths.

My Thoughts: it must have been summer time, when winter has fallen with a blanket of snow then show me your acceptance.

Rather than a monarchy, I'd say the intent is global establishment of oligarchical collectivism.

 

The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism

Oh my.... I had never heard of this before but you know what... you are right.

Yeah...

 

When you get to the point that sedition is a JOB a country really has a problem.

 

RC

I was wondering if anyone else knew this is what is going on. Sedition: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/894

You may also add fomenting insurrection as well. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

Both are prosecutable crimes the last I looked, it would please me to see certain individuals prosecuted after they have left office, it would be justice.

So long as the elected officials and former elected officials are permitted to live under a different set of laws than the populace then what we have is a monarchy not a Representative Republic.

One more day and we'll be through !!!!  I'll be glad and so will you !!!!!

Wrong ;-)

Riiight

 

The movie "Idiocracy" is the left's idea of a grim future.

Wrong, it has been comparable to the direction this country has been sliding into and has become under the current administration not the future but what has been the past for the last 8 years and hopefully a reversal will take place starting this Friday.

The movie was viewed as a comedy in 2006 when it came out. Not a very good one either.

No. Thank goodness only two more days! 

Hope Trump does a much better job.

Still hard to believe Donald Trump is the President.

Obama was the start of the Office of President of the United States becoming demeaned into a position for oddball controversial characters to play out others agendas on the world stage.

The way it is going the next president after Trump will be a Professional Wrestler and a porn star we will start irrigating the crops with Gatorade cause it's got Electrolytes it's what plants crave.

http://reuben.typepad.com/reuben_steigers_weblog/2011/10/visualizing-the-future-5-idiocracy-is-for-idiots.html

I have been saying since the 1980's this country needs a business man as a president, to run this country like a business. A business that has the sake of it own populaces best interest at heart.

I never thought the personality would be Donald Trump! Never! To me he is still in the catagory of an anomaly like the great Mike Tyson was to the boxing world.

Well President Trump,does not need anything financially in this world having achieved it all. If that scoundrel Obama were 1/256th as good as you, he would not accept any payment from the American people after the disaster he is leaving behind. He does not deserve any paycheck after leaving office, protection yes, an income no!

I respect the Office of the President of the United States of America not the outgoing person who has made a mockery of it at every turn and done everything in his power to set race relationships back to Pre-Martin Luther King Junior days as a vindictive racist. This outgoing President Obama has wrecked the dream of the great Martin Luther King Junior.

I was not alive in a time before the Great Martin Luther King Junior, I came up in a time of White Shame where we greatly regretted the evils of the past, even though I had never known those days nor had the fellow Black Children, I grew up with, went to school with.

Believe it or not I was raised singing slave songs in grade school, like , jump down turn around pick a bail of cotton, there was no choice sing it or fail. My first black predjuice teacher was in second grade her name was Mrs. Benjamin she was evil and hated white children.

My first love was my third grade teacher a black woman named Mrs. Harris. From her I learned not all black women hated what they thought were White Children.

I am Native American, Hindu, German, English, Irish, Russian by lineage and American by birth this time. Whose shall I hate?

I chose to love Mrs. Harris daughter Denise for her spirit in her eyes. Oh she was pissed at me but she was the first girl I ever got a kiss from. Mrs. Harris said to me afterwards "young man what are your intentions towards my daughter?''

Scared the hell out of me, thought I would have to get married after kissing her to avoid upsetting Mrs Harris who I cherished so much for her loving heart and great compassion she showed an undeserving me.

I would have married Denise on the spot you know.

I replied Mrs. Harris I was raised to never hit a girl no matter what! So after saying mean things, Denise got mad and tried to slap me, we wound up wrestling but I did not want to hurt her, I wanted to kiss her because she was so beautiful to me, so I did. That was the end of it. She did not like my kiss and ran away.

Mrs. Harris with a chuckle said young man the ones who act like they like you the least are often the ones who like you the most, just be respectful from here on out okay? You know what that means right?

I replied yes mam. To me that meant do not upset the tearchers daughter.

Later I learned my Family which is a historical Civil War Family actually divided over the issue of slavery my Forefathers choosing freedom for all men regardless of cast creed or religious belief.

This Obama occupying the Whitehouse these past 8 years has been a hate monger and is on par with the KKK only in reverse. The horrible race riots and police killings are part of his true legacy.

Trump is not a likable person, I personally detest him, but atleast we are not paying him, he unlike the outgoing elected official refuses a paycheck, says allot!

Yes he will likely gain that which the wealthy cherish more than wealth, which is power, but he should be very careful. Some of the people may be fooled all of the time but very seldom are all of the people fooled all of the time.

I want America to do well, not at the expense of other Nations but in conjunction with. There is no good reason for Detroit and Chicago in this day and age, we do have the ability to extinguish the madness, the want and the suffering.

I am an American, I love my Country, it has given me a place to incarnate and live without undo pains and do my chosen spiritual practices. This is precious, thus the love for America.

I do not like nor love anyone, nor anything that impunes my religious freedom nor that which my forefathers fought so hard to achieve. Truth, Justice & the American Way.