Pilgrim

Perhaps you should realize your bubble and stop projecting it as well? If you did not want to participate in the conversation you would not have posted. Your reply to Aetheros revealed to me how much Aetheros really was correct. Aetheros I apologize as it turns out you were right. So here I am entering the conversation after all. The pain and suffering abortion causes the infant has nothing to do with belief systems. The pain and suffering are real just as real as you being here on earth breathing right now is, as real as your feelings for what Aetheros wrote which you felt the need to react to and these words as well. It is all relative to where one finds ones self. Pray you do not find yourself in a womb having after reincarnated to discover the pain of being aborted. You can neither prove nor disprove reincarnation. In fact I challenge you to do so right here and right now. Until it can be proven then it is nothing more than a projection of your belief system. Granted I do believe in reincarnation but am staunchly opposed to fetus and infant murder and abortions where suffering will take place with the infant for any reason of convenience or inconvenience. I also believe in abortions but only when they are under the following conditions which to me are fair and reasonable. 1. If it is by choice of the mother to abort her pregnancy that is fine with me no matter what her reason it is, her body, her life her choice, during the early part of the first trimester after that then it is no longer just her body, or just her life nor just her choice. After this period of time grave pain and suffering can be experienced by the infant. The procedures to remove a fetus from the womb are brutal by anyone's definition. There is no proof that during the early part of the first trimester the fetus can experience pain. To me in this case let the soul depart and take birth in a receptive womb, probably better off anyway. 2. If there is clear and present danger to the mothers health then the Mother has precedence in the relationship and abortion should be performed. 3. If there is clear and present evidence the child will not live outside the womb on it's own (excepting premature births which life support can assist for a short period of time) then abortion should be performed. 4. If the Mother is a victim of rape I can see where the horror of carrying the perpetrators child may indeed warrant abortion after the first trimester. This after all can be equally damaging to the mother mentally and emotionally even as a physical health risk and should be permitted after adequate counseling has been received. After all their are also Mental and Emotional damages one has to deal with from aborting an infants life. #4. Is as far as I can go with permitting abortions after the first trimester the rest of the reasons I have heard people make are not justifiable. I do not count a child being born with Down Syndrome, Autism or Deformities or to parents who can not afford them to be justifiable reasons for abortion. Once a child is in the birth canal exiting the mother to extinguish it's life is unjustifiable homicide, Once a child is outside of the mother to extinguish it's life is unjustifiable homicide. Adoption and Governmental intervention needs to be the alternative to Abortion. In the case of those with severe deformities and other conditions which will make them perhaps too difficult for the parent or parents to raise or impossible to care for then this is a case where the States and Federal Government should step in and help by providing a life for these people so they can live. I would not mind seeing my tax money going to projects like this and would consider it a worthy cause. As it stands now politics are shaping peoples opinion and that is disgusting. Being a leftest or a conservative or any other sickening politically deranged identification should be beneath a persons dignity and conscience when voting for life and death. If not then people should really not vote if all they are doing is voting their corrupt polarized party. Problem is the most polarized can't even see they are. Any and all Political party affiliation when it has taken up a residence in a persons identity are not only corrupt as the politicians they back but have corrupted the individuals judgment and perceptions making them pawns. Then there is also the abortion industry and the money it receives for performing abortions, this I do not approve of as it is way out of hand with far too much freedom to essentially commit unjustified murder. Murder of gestating humans in the womb must have a justifiable legitimate reason not just convenience or inconvenience whatever the case may be. The parameters I outlined above are in my opinion fair and balanced. What parameters would others choose as valid reasons for abortion and why?

Audible is owned by Amazon so I would be surprised if there was not a path to Audio Book recording. I always love it when a good voice is used like Peter Coyote, he has done many audio books like zen mind beginners mind by Suzuki Roshi. Watch this video of him on a phone it is crazy how it moves with the phone but mostly listen to the voice. You will need to open in YouTube to get the effect.

Ah thanks. And Ahem No Thanks Get thai'd, you're talking to a tourist Whose every move's among the purest I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine

What is that?

I agree with you. I should have phrased that a little differently instead of saying " all the talking about it here did nothing to change the ways of the world and it is a pointless exercise" I should have specified that for me it is a pointless exercise. My Thoughts and feelings on the topic have already been well explored in the past with you and others and my conclusions will not change. Unless something changed and these laws have been changed then I stand by my statement and I seriously doubt there will be a significant domino effect of any kind from discussions held here as most people from the previous discussion showed they are unwilling to take a different stance and that also includes me. I am all for a Domino effect in favor of my correct point of view on this topic.

I have no idea what Tonglen is but am willing to learn.

Quite a few of us went through this topic a month or so ago, I for one do not care to revisit it as all the talking about it here did nothing to change the ways of the world and it is a pointless exercise. If the OP wants to read others views then they can get an eyeful starting around this page linked below.

I have begun practicing The Yoga of Dream and sleep which works out well as I have a split sleep schedule due to the difference in hours I work versus those of my lady. If I get a few hours sleep after work I can be awake and spend time with her at night till around midnight or 1 at the latest then fall asleep and get up at 6 and go to work. This way I can do my BON practices as listed above and to make it all better they are a part of the Yoga of Sleep and Dreams. In the last few weeks I have been experiencing a great deal of pain from the death of my Mentor a friend I have known for 32 years since I was 17 years old. We were very close he was like my father. When the emotions and pain ride high Kriya practice becomes impossible. Kriya is primarily about Cleansing the Nadis, Chakras and central channel and using the triple divine qualities to take the mind into deep absorption but there is a problem here. The heart chakra is the place for pain where pain of the mind collects this is where it is held. Having a heightened awareness of the subtle body from and by the practice of Kriya without the tools to heal from loss and pain makes things much, much worse. The heart center is very important but is also a center that takes a long time to clear and fully mature. So Energizing the heart center and cleansing it with Kriya practice is not so good during difficult times. Cleansing has it's place but not with raw, recent, new trauma all it does is magnify it and cause it to multiply. With the multiplication of pain the multiplication of thoughts. Even when the thoughts are not verbal but felt thoughts. I have made a few posts on the bums here recently and was seeking advice on how to deal with this. Last night I was looking for a different video by TWR and instead came immediately to his talk on turning pain into the path. Once again I am astounded by the wisdom of this Lama and would like to share this video with you all, watching this is very liable to change your life. It is changing mine. Something very important he said was : One can not clean blood off of ones hand with a blooded hand. If you try to clean blood off of your hands by using blood you will never be clean of blood. If it is your goal to replace the first blood with the second blood then you will succeed. In this case you are replacing a thought with a thought and this is not the way through pain. I think I will continue to share insights of this video and other teachings of his so I can continue to work things out and maybe we can understand better together?

@Starjumper will soon be reading your book. Recomendation add audible however that works. I often buy both, listening while driving is a treasure. Thank you very much.

Always figured those Kentucky woods were full of critters.

Where would this be?

You might enjoy a show called the Order on Netflix.

The Tibetan Yogas of dream and sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, a lama in the Bön tradition of Tibet This book gives detailed instruction for dream yoga, including foundational practices done during the day. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OHK2QK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll bet the work out helped. You might want to look into what I describe below. Recently I decided to do something about all my lucid dreaming and started learning about The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep from TWR https://www.amazon.com/Tibetan-Yogas-Dream-Sleep-ebook/dp/B006OHK2QK/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=yoga+sleep+bon&qid=1552494091&s=gateway&sr=8-1 I purchased the Kindle version and the audiobook for when I am driving. They are perfect companion pieces as we already have the paperback book. Since I began learning sleep is much improved and I have learned allot about the nature of sleep and how it directly correlates to death as I always thought it did. This book is a magnificent masterpiece of instruction and actual techniques.

I see so you do understand what I have written in the past about if the heart does not beat the lungs do not breathe. Glad to hear you have it under control. I also hope id did not cause you too much distress. On the opposite side of here where we need the heart to beat to be present it is very, very peaceful.

Thanks Stosh I should probably put this stuff in my PPD If you feel comfortable sharing may I ask how you came to your experience of heart not beating?

One more thing though the rings are beautiful it is entering the "Cosmic Womb the Black Orb" through the 5 pointed thin white star the Cosmic Orifice of the Cosmic Cervix that is important. When you enter the womb you experience what is growing there and it is being inside of a entirely different dimension and Universe and there is a God growing in there or I suppose what could be called a Buddha. In my case the God was a male figure in his mid to late 30's That Buddha is you. Your true self and when you realize this you are astounded because you realize the part of you that is in this world this earth realm typing is a fragment of your own totality returning home and you are not only non duel in this awareness but duel at the same time and both the returning fragment and the whole are of one mind so there is no duality. What is thought by one also plays in the mind of the other as a mirror. You are pleased and comfortable to be here and you are being welcomed to remain or return but if you remain the body life is over, your body will asphyxiate because this is a deep form of Samadhi where the breathing is not happening. Trying to explain this by necessity creates a paradox of words. This is not the same as Mahasamadhi where there is no heart beat. That is different and on the way back from absolute absorption one experiences Rigpa. I have been trying to describe this for years. Yesterday I heard Rigpa explained by Marcy Vaughn in TWR'S audio book of The Tibetan Yogas Of Dream And Sleep https://www.amazon.com/Tibetan-Yogas-Dream-Sleep/dp/1559391014 As she was describing Rigpa I was shocked and said Oh yes I know exactly what she is talking about. Sorry OP this has drifted a bit more....

Indeed and just to be perfectly clear this is not a contrived visualization or fiction nor is it a make believe anything but what is directly experienced. Most Kriyabans I have worked with do not see the rings at first, some never do, most get there. It takes a stillness and spaciousness of mind and correct practice. In allot of ways it is like getting the feel of it like riding a bike. I have yet to meet anyone who has seen the black orb or penetrated the white star besides myself. This illustration is static and does not compare. The experience is repeatable but once you've got it and understand it deep inside the reason to repeat it leaves you. Kriya is so much more than most even know. Bon however takes up the reigns where Kriya ends. Together they are powerful complimentary lineages.

Living in America a King sized bed with my woman. It is a bed made of Tempurpedic foam. We sleep very well rarely disturbing one another. My biggest problem is it is very difficult to want to get up and go to work when I would rather be with her.

Can you see the corollary of the experience and why it is called Yoni Mudra? They de-feminzed it in the 1920's calling it Jyoti or light mudra which as I have explained is the incorrect was to practice. In my understanding the tunnel is the Cosmic Vaginal wall The birth canal and the rings the layers of penetration from the outer world to the inner world and the dark orb is the cosmic womb and the 5 pointed star the cosmic cervix. As above so below, never ever sell yourself short ladies. _/|\_

@rene Here it is large and the picture does not do the actual experience justice, The ring should be more golden and well the colors are far more real and vibrant than I can produce with my skills.

Thanks Zoom in on it you will see the black orb with the white star. On phone now will use computer and upload large version. I may animate this so people can better understand what True Yoni or Jyoti looks like. It is like driving through a tunnel and there are rings of light, and the more you focus on the center in favor of the rings the faster you pass through them. The trick is not to stare at the rings with your minds eye but the darkness dead center yet allow yourself to enjoy the rings and allow them to glow in the periphery of your mental vision. As soon as you pass one and it passes over you like the orifice of a cosmic Yoni you see yet another in the distance. Keeping attention mainly in the center like when driving a car keeps you on track going down the tunnel. This is the reverse of birth through the Brahma Yoni. I suspect we do this while dying. The trick is not to to pay attention to the beautiful yellow rings, if you do you go to the wall of the tunnel all becomes yellow beautiful light but you never reach the 5 pointed thin white star let alone penetrate it too experience what is inside the black orb. Instead you return to normal awareness. I have gone inside and it is amazing and beautiful.

I know. It is what one experiences in a form of Samadhi by the practice of Yoni Mudra in Kriya Prior to that there are rings that look like Supernova. As one closes in they see a Black orb with a thin 5 pointed white star after going through the star one is in a Liquid Plasma field of light and sees their own soul. Here is the larger image I created attempting to depict this process but once fully inside I would need the talents of Lucas Arts and the resources of Disney to really show things as they truly are.

By the way this is not the first time it has happened with the Avatars. I will be changing mine in a little while as no one can make out what it is anyway.

Yep do it all the time, that by the way was meant as a friendly dummy.