Earl Grey

You must not spend a lot of time living outside of your own country or the city if this is your conclusion about the whole world. Or met some of the great teachers in the west. Some of the greatest teachers out there do live in cities from Beijing to Pittsburgh to NYC and Manila. Some aren’t even known outside of the rural area. But it all comes down to what effort you will put into it and that’s not just money, but the desire to be “comfortable” with who you are rather than going above and beyond.

And slow up, slow up! Slow up, I’m in a hurry! Wisdom comes with time!

“I’m in a hurry!” “Then take your time—don’t waste mine! And slow up, slow up!”

No need to rush it Haste makes waste, you fool! Slow up I’m in a hurry

Through revolving doors we cycle many brief lives some wiser, some worse

Depending on where OP is from I am trying to find the closest seminar, affordable resources, or generous teacher, hence my questions.

Memories faded We depart this incarnation like guests from an inn

Free doesn’t always mean money. Sincerity, effort, and character can help you. What country are you in and what do you hope to accomplish with your prospective internal practices?

Not only that but there are several good teachers who do teach online, such as Terry Dunn and John Dolic. The problem is, even with that option, people don’t feel that they should pay to learn these skills for health or neigong and yet think the best techniques for good health or martial power should be free. Cry me a river. Edit: not directed at thelerner or OP. Just in general for users here trying to find free stuff that some of us sacrifice a lot to get.

My stepdad is the Jew in the family and he’s not a kosher eater, ha! As for no commercial flights, you can go by boat or if you really want, you can swim.

Okay, let's talk via PM so that we don't distract from the thread.

For healing or for martial purposes? It all depends on your goal too, and your location or if you don't mind learning online for the short term, but will still need to eventually learn in person for advanced techniques.

I suppose. At the moment I've said all I prefer to publicly about him knowing that people are fans of him on this forum and some are his students. The rest I only discuss privately with trusted individuals as to the specifics of why we don't go to him for healing qigong or for martial power or skill. Given the level of martial and healing skills my four IMA teachers have, and their interaction with him, they have no reason to recommend him. And yes, I've tried his Dragon and Tiger qigong and was not impressed.

Into warm silence summer now becomes autumn Leaves dance in the wind

I shall quote the wisdom of the Greeks then in response to what you believe I represent: μην κρίνεις εξ ιδίων τα αλλότρια, or, translated in English: "don't judge what others do (or believe) based on your own convictions (or opinions/experiences)."

Earl Gray seems like a nice fellow, but I'm Earl Grey. I shall quote the Roman Lays about Horatius: "To every man who lives upon this earth, death cometh sooner or later, and how can a man die better than to face fearful odds for the ashes of his fathers and the altars of his gods?"

Sounds perfect. Come out to this region whether in Philippines, Indonesia, Timor, or Cambodia and I'll show you some fine people you'd enjoy. This is a serious invite, by the way. Got it from the Sunday farmer's market. All of $3.30 USD.

Must be means it's an educated guess. And by your own responses, it doesn't seem like you have a lot of depth (keyword seems, big boy). It's wordplay and in my signature, a reference to the great Robert Anton Wilson--a little humorous rib at you, not a personal attack. As for projecting being the natural state of human psychology--not a view that I subscribe to, because I'm just saying what I know and seeing that you're looking for hostility that isn't here. If you even think that this is critique, well, you run in some funny circles, my boy. You remind me of the people who thought Hunter S. Thompson before the 1980s was a mean and terrible human being. An asshole, yes, but a Southern Gentleman and a lot of heart, wisdom, and insight. Those people who aren't fond of him tend to be Millennials and Edgers. "I know this might be hard for someone like you who think the externals is more or less all there is" - Here you go again making assumptions and not actually trying to comprehend or consider that I'm saying something completely different from what you're interpreting. You're also presuming to understand what I think or believe, which is nothing like this at all. "It could of course be a mask to goad me on, try to hit a nerve again, with supposed test upon test, to test my level of enlightenment." - Why would I waste time testing someone who thinks he's keeping it classy but has demonstrated through his own fatuous comments that he has no class? "But to me, it seems more likely to be you just trying to fire arrows at me that you hope will kill me, because you fear me now." - You must be very good at reading people's actual feelings and emotions huh? Okay, Bro. Keep telling yourself that. Make sure that you build a bridge out of wood rather than plastic. As for not paying attention, it was fairly obvious you didn't. Seems like a Millennial or Edger kind of thing for someone like you to think I'm taunting or trying to "trigger" you. In my upbringing, challenging someone didn't mean that you were trying to piss them off, it meant you were getting them to think. So far, you haven't been thinking. And if you are "triggered", to me, being "triggered" is your own issue, not mine, because that isn't even my intent, but I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears because once again, what you perceive is far different from what is actually being said, whether by me or Nungali. "You will forever feel you are superior and correct" - I haven't said anywhere that I am superior or correct as I already stated that this subject is not my passion (Crowley). I only stated that the OP sounds silly, which was what developed later on in this discussion. "as you will not admit that there are other points of view that hold merit than your own." - I've actually been quite amicable, but your non-arguments from strawman tactics and ad hominem attacks while supporting someone because he's "interesting" rather than the merit of his fallacies and interpretations is the same as people I knew who voted for George W. Bush, Barack Obama, or Donald Trump because they liked their character and personality, but couldn't identify their policies at all. "I do see you point of view quite clearly, but I will not take your side, as your pov isn't the same as mine." - This hasn't been demonstrated because everything you are responding to doesn't sound like anything I've written. "Not only that, but since you fail to accepts others subjective stance, any olive branch will be perceived by you as a submission" - Again: being unable to disagree is a norm of the 21st century that people feel it is better to seem agreeable than to have actual dialogue. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis: people think an antithesis is a bad thing, but without it, there is no synthesis. So many theses posited by others wanting to sound relevant but nobody is actually checking out the other views. "You will slap on a chain and proclaim a wonderful period of peace, while everyone else is slaving for you in the fields." - Pretty amusing since I work in global development and eradication of poverty, as well as identifying as a Leftist, but unless you've been participating in other threads, or you actually know who I am, your attempts at character assassination are bemusing. He did have his facts wrong. But the "people who contribute to systemic problems beyond their control" parallel is a false comparison. As for the line you're drawing, you sound like one of those proud university kid vegans who used to shout at me while I enjoyed a cheeseburger, thinking they were changing the world. I wasn't arguing with them as I bit into it and they assumed I was arguing with every non-response I gave, I wasn't even thinking about them, I was just enjoying my burger. And you, lad, are not stopping me from enjoying a burger, just as your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. "Well if this long post you just made had not been mocking/superior/etc, I might have had to rethink my stance." - Rethinking your stance should be something you do regardless of what I say or think, and anyone and everyone should be doing this, lest they become static and stubborn with absolute certainty about things that just aren't true, especially as new facts arise. "But you just keep on going." - Y'all asked me to dance, so I'm dancing with y'all, pardner. Yee-haw! Grab yer partner, dosey-do! "You lack the subtle twists that Nungali has, I guess that is why you look up to him" Nungali has seen one thread where I was indeed pissed off and he put me in my place unsubtly, by the way. It isn't a matter of "looking up" so much as it is that I respect him and others on this forum for their own merits, including you. Be glad this isn't a discussion on Zhan Zhuang or IMA because then you're in my world and you have no chance of making any substantive statements worth considering, and no, I won't toot my own horn as that's not the topic here, but you're welcome to see in other posts in other threads. "What does that have to do with the Boar association I made?" - comprehension and correlation skills: -2. It was one of Hercules labors, nothing more. "Oh wait, this is just another subtle stab at me, because that is the whole gist of your narrative" - I wonder how people in the 21st century live thinking that everything is a personal attack, directly or indirectly, even if the person saying those things isn't doing that at all (in this case me not attacking at all). "This other person need to be taught their place, everything they say is an indication that they don't know enough." - Is this what you wrote for your dating profile self-description? "I toned down my stance as a little test you know." - Self-testing? I hope you passed your own test. "In fact I thought you had run off in pure terror hiding behind Nungali," - Terror? I'm the scariest thing in the dark. A tiny terror, but still a terror, as people in the west and the east have both made similar comments about my silence until actually talking with me and my stoic face. "I actually ignorelisted you as irrelevant noise, so I had to unignore you to check what this was about." - How flattering. Tell someone who cares what you think about me, because I don't think about what you think about me, I think about what I think. "Maybe you thought Nungali had tamed me or something haha." - You do have a habit of assuming what others think and mean without actually asking them. "Am I to feel that if I respond on this perfect sunday, that you have snubbed me or something?" - Actually, I was responding as a courtesy, not to demonstrate anything at all. If you see this as a flamewar, you really need to get your head out of your asshole. "Hahaha I still don't give a shit" - You sure seem to spend a lot of time trying to show that you don't give a shit. "As for your attempt at getting me to spill the beans by pretending you already know all the secrets to the labors. Well I could care less if you do, and if you do, then you are probably faking your superior attitude as a test, because that seem to be the goto failsafe argument at least, and even that is subtly alluded to" - I didn't pretend to know, I said I had them in my notes somewhere but wasn't interested in looking for them to share right now and deviate from this engagement. "Whether you are actually enjoying yourself and not feeling any disturbance to match the attitude you have, or if you are sitting angry in front of your computer doesn't matter to me" - And it shouldn't matter to you, but again, you're spending a lot of time trying to prove that you don't care about what I think. "I tried to relate by talking topic, and you decided to be an ass back. (as I predicted would happen) Not that I wasn't expecting it, but it seems from your words that I was too lenient in my first reply to you. Because I told you that you should look at that splinter in your eye, but it looks more and more like a beam" - I only responded to what you threw at me, as you've been talking at me and over me, not with me. If you thought you were too lenient, it appears you admit you're creating conflict--you remind me of the little kids who think they can fight and walk up to my friends and me while training, and we humor them by mock fainting when they air jab at us. And if you keep worrying about the splinter in my eye, again: why are you concerned with what's in my eye and what you don't think that I see that you do? "That is about all, enjoy your perfect life, your perfect knowledge and your perfect peace of mind. If that is really what you have, good for you! " - Never said what I had was perfect or that I am, I just shared sincerely because that's what I do. I also don't need to explain myself for your own edification.

That line belongs in “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance 2” written by Liminal Luke and illustrated by his partner. Make it happen.

"but we both know it won't happen" - A little too certain of ourselves now, are we? You must be new either to the forum or new to the Art* *The Art is the Tao, or whatever esoteric path you follow, not necessarily for spiritual sagacity but for making sense of the cosmos. "Chiefly because I've met too many like him, and don't really feel like being more respectful than I have to. Which means that I don't have to show much respect at all, since this forum is pretty lax on moderation" - Reciprocity and the Golden Rule are not mutually exclusive, but I've found that they go hand in hand often if you work on your own ability to communicate, more on listening and understanding, as well as considering views outside of your own Belief System (your own BS for short) more than projecting. "I mean if there was a real bridge over this chasm, I'd be one of the first ones lining up to cross" - Then by all means, build that bridge, but don't accuse me or be crediting me for the wall that you yourself put up by reacting before thinking. Your posts earlier didn't seem to indicate you read the whole thread or how my shift in tone and style were to match what you said rather than what I had earlier written. By the way, you seem to indicate that playing in the mud is a bad thing. Nungali lives in the countryside in a commune and I worked in global development, so I've had a lot of hands-on work in agriculture and rural kids. Get your hands dirty for a change and you will discover that tendency to act precious quickly disappears--this is something my Southern friends love to say to city slickers and coastal urbanites. Nungers, I think you and I would have a lovely weekend trading musical interests. I love Glass and Tool and Mike Oldfield. My other musical interests are way to many to list here, but I think I'll post another conflict-free thread in the PPJ for favorite artists and songs. No Disco Duck, I promise. "Of course there is . You seem knowledgeable on a range of subjects that interest me and others here . If you are reasonable, can support what you say with reference to text, experience, good observation, etc . If you can answer a question, if you dont engage in silly tactics regarding the way the discussion or debate goes (like the ones pointed out here by me and Earl ( eg) . Try it . you might be surprised . But if anyone starts acting like a real dick ... well ......" Yep, ace wisdom from our favorite trickster teacher on the forum. I don't know about others, but me personally, and from what I saw in your responses to the OP, there was no malice or pride whatsoever, just honest questions about the odd interpretations presented as facts and absolutes that didn't seem to be aware of the inherent contradictions made by him often in the same post. I'm going to repeat an old story here before about people missing the point and not understanding the sources they claim to cite: a guy argued with my friend and me about Buddha and things he said and taught and how he was a terrible individual. We're nodding our heads and he goes on and on about how Buddha was in China. Our eyebrows raise as he rants...and then we ask him why he appears to be talking about Confucius. He then states, "Well, they're the same person, d'uh!" and at that point we didn't even bother listening to what he said. He then accused us of being narrow-minded and ignorant and mean for arguing with him. Apparently, fact checking makes you an asshole. And this was before the Internet. "At the end of the day though, we all are unleashing our own problematic tendencies on each other. One of the big reason I see no hope for a permanent bridge, this little break in things really don't change the meta-analysis" - Quite the optimist, aren't we? "Which remind me of the Erymanthian Boar from Hercules fourth labor. I wonder if the Boar on the top of the forum has any connection to that, if so, that would be interesting. If not, it seems to fit what I observe in this forum anyway, an outlet for repressed tendencies. It felt kinda good to be able to be assholeish over this whole thing, without having mods stepping in." - Assholeish? I wouldn't have characterized you as that. Overblown sense of misguided righteousness and unnecessary sanctimony, probably, but not an asshole. Hercules also ended up with 12 labors because he was a bit too clever for wording given to him for his original 10, but in doing so he screwed himself over by not actually developing the skills he needed to build his character that the tests were designed for him to learn. There's also arguably an energetic alchemical growth parallel to this, but I have it in my notes somewhere and don't feel like digging into them on a beautiful Sunday morning when I get to enjoy a smoothie and a roast beef and cheese sandwich here before I go do some training, enjoy the newspaper and a book (Solzhenitsyn's One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich), and marathon gaming on the Nintendo Switch.

The link is the common agreement across practices for disliking BKF.

Teachers and peers and lineages.

Good god, another sanctimonious turd belittling others for not fitting into their criteria for what is a Taoist. Sounds more like a Sunday school fundamentalist than an impartial Taoist, let alone a non-judging Christian, for fuck’s sake.

Ticks all the same boxes as I love those too. It also sounds like something out of an old RPG I played called Kindred of The East.

Strength exercises are not just lifting weights. And yes, they are quite necessary for BALANCE.