ilumairen

Once upon a time, I would have preferred this forum not be a recruitment ground for another group (for my own reasons). It is, however, covered in the terms of service and rules area, and people can and will make their own decisions..

I have a suggestion. Would it be possible to stop dealing in hypothetical discussions which haven't occurred or past discussions which happened with different players, and focus on the present discussion? I'm not about to hold my breath on this, but I do believe it would be beneficial.

I would love to see the reference literature you have in mind, for my own curiosities sake. And if I may be so bold as to suggest it seems the esoteric brotherhood, as you describe it, could be considered patriarchal in nature. (Yeah, I just went there..)

Recently read this article: https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/rigpa-abuse/

Try this:

I don't think it's meant to be elitist, but honest (even if a bit protectionist) acknowledgement of what's available to them and the reason they still find it to be of value - even if it isn't the entirety of the system. To me it seems a habitual type response (and one certain practitioners are satisfied with) to habitual type negation (which certain non-practioners of this system are satisfied with). It seems an aspect of the merry go round we ride in this forum regarding this topic, and painting idealism (either Eastern or Western) into the picture is an attempt to understand the queasiness some experience as we keep spinning in circles - even if it may just keep the ride a spinnin'...

Was looking through the thread in an attempt to better understand the who's, how's, and why's of the presented eastern/western dichotomy, and became curious about the shared goals mentioned in this post. Would you be willing to share a bit of what these goals are?

To be fair, I believe he only points this out to the same extent the Eastern/Western Mo Pai argument is set forth against his practice by others. And he did repeatedly say there is no Eastern/Western Mo Pai - only Mo Pai, while others set forth the differentiation...

Perhaps they would like some small modicum of respect before they're willing to "set their pearls before swine" - instead of what they likely perceive as their pearls being trampled in the mud? He's willing to talk - where he senses some openness.. and to me, this says something. And before anyone gets grumpy about the swine comment, it's just a figure of speech which simply and easily conveys the general idea.

This isn't plausible (for a number of reasons) imo.

Presently, I'm thinking it's burning anyway, and if we create a big enough conflagration perhaps some of the karmic seeds would burn off - clearing the way for a new dynamic to unfold..

Somehow I don't think this is how "they" view the dynamic.. and I'm wondering what it would take for the dynamic to shift for all involved.

I have seen these two here. This one I have not seen, although I believe you. What are your thoughts on the dynamic here, and how and why it plays out?

Would this be in keeping with the pillar of egalitarianism of this site (as it seems a certain education and understanding is required to fit with your ideal)? Curiosity, not churlishness, as I've often been curious (and oddly cautious) about the egalitarian policy... Shared for reference:

As a mildly humorous aside, as a relocated Wisconsonite living in the Charleston South Carolina area, I made the mistake of wishing people fitting the description you made above a Happy Halloween. A kindly gentlemen pulled me aside and suggested I probably didn't want to repeat what I'd just said, but it was to late, and word of my celebration of "Satan's Holiday" spread quickly... Has someone from your group actually openly talked about their life and practice here? I don't recall seeing it. Edit to add: I started looking through old mo pai threads. This was the first I found/read through; it seems respectful and informative, although well before my arrival here. I'm presently wondering what changed? When did the change occur, and why?

Ah, then @Zork did have your number regarding what he referred to as recruitment.. Apologies for my misunderstanding, and thinking the like minded individuals you referred to were those you felt your system needed defense from. Edit to add, with your most recent post I've realized this is convoluted beyond what I enjoy looking into and unraveling. Best wishes to you on your path.

Love this bit.. thanks @Encephalon.

Oops.. here, enjoy some kitties..

This seems likely to create a "hall of mirrors" effect where people who have nothing at all to say about your system are seen as "like minded individuals" for sharing their thoughts on whatever unrelated subject, and those who are keeping an eye out create a self fulfilling prophecy by interjecting where they feel a system not being attacked must be defended. Messy stuff imo.

Can you explain a bit more of what you mean with the above? Particularly the bit about your mind being totally empty?

Yes you have, and because it's such a big part of your life and is important to you it still colors your interactions - whether deliberately or not. If something is presented which could be, or has been, used as an argument against what you hold to be of great value you automatically (and perhaps naturally) wish to argue against it - whether what is shared actually has anything to do with what's precious to you or not. There have been a great many karmic seeds planted here related to your system, and many habitual responses which muddy any potential connection and conversation.. Thank you for this, and thank you for renaming the thread, if you were the one inspired to do so. ***** Regarding the subject manner of learning through text and video, yes it's possible, and with the physical arts a bit more difficult imo. The martial arts instructor I practiced under has a book available, and flipping through the pages and studying the forms and moves found there in is nothing like being in class. And further would be quite difficult to get a feel for without the previous personal training and corrections of the "class" setting. Anyway, take care, and best wishes.

I don't see why not, and if you're considering simply moving such threads to the "proper" forum, I don't see how it would be much different than previous experience - aside from such topics being more "hidden."

Some years back I had a friend who visited this forum, but did not join. His assessment was taoists, in practice, seem primarily concerned with semen retention. As it was later explained to me, one reason for the seperate yet open areas was so people could easily avoid wading through thread after thread about semen retention, and people like my friend mentioned above would be less likely to gain the (mistaken) impression he did. Guess mine was a rotten tomato..

I miss the anonymous setting and pretending I was a stealthy ninja.

If one is proposing a Christian/Jewish view of Satanism, then there is already confusion and conflation of understanding imo.