Xuanming

Did you see emptiness in my opinion or just want to deny the realities in you someone pointed out? I am so delighted to hear that you know my Qigong practice. I thought that you practice Neidan only not practice Qigong. I love to hear your critics and want to hear more about what is wrong in my Qigong practice. Which scripture contradicts my Qigong experience? I am also a Neidan practitioner. What is wrong in my Neidan practice? I would greatly appreciate your advice and suggestions. Please let me know. Thank you!

Is it yourself evaluation or pointing your finger to Xuanming? I have not lost track and I do see the reality clearly. I am a guy and straight and happily married. Can you tell the difference between a guy and a girl? Thank you for your sweet post, but don’t call me “Darling” again. Why? Because you cannot answer my questions? Do you understand the definition of clone? Who are my clones? Taoist Texts is smart and intelligent. He is logical and reasonable in conversations if you talk about very specific topics with him. He certainly has more understanding than me on his field. I truly admire his talents. He understands my points, but you don’t. If you would review your own posts, you may find a lot of projections and assumptions without evidence and references. For example: Where did your strange conclusions came from? It looks like projections and assumptions without evidence and reference. This is discussion, but like curse. Who are the 5 lying ladies? I have no idea who you are talking about. Can you give any examples? If you cannot provide evidence, again it sounds like just your projection or assumption and shows that you do not respect women. Calling names appears to be your way of denying reality and avoiding answering questions. I wanted to check with you about quantumdragon’s observations from your energy field if she was correct. You have never answered my simple questions, but you had a huge reaction to my questions. If it is not true, you should be not triggered by the information quantumdragon shared with us. From my experiential understanding on energetic and spiritual communications, quantumdragon is an advanced and gifted practitioner. What happened to her, it was not her fantasy or lie but her observation and energetic and spiritual communications with your own consciousness projection onto her. It might happen at subconscious or unconscious levels so you were not aware of it. Have you recalled your mind back to your body since you published the post that day? Are you aware of your sub-conscious activities that day? If you do not know how to recall your mind back to your body, or if you were not aware of how your sub-consciousness went to quantumdragon, it is easy for you totally to deny you did visit her and then point your finger at her and say “she is lying or making up some fantasy stories.” To test if her information is correct or not, one simple thing is to check with you. That’s why I wanted to ask some questions regarding whether her observation on your energy field is correct or not, so that we can have a conclusion. Instead of working together and collaborating on this situation, you had an huge emotional explode. Your emotional explode reflects the level of your internal cultivation clearly--you have not begun your internal cultivation at the internal organ level yet. Thus, quantumdragon's observation on your energy field sounds correct. I thought that Opendao has deep experience and understanding on this area as a pre-heaven practitioner. It seems that I totally overvalued your internal cultivation. You might not have experienced such phenomena yet—perhaps you may experience such phenomena later when your pre-heaven practice is at more advanced level (s). Why you think the field of qi is De? You said that “people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains.” You mean people do it constantly in the real life consciously or unconsciously? Are you scanning people constantly in real life without their permission?

Opendao, are you aware of this Forum is for discussing about Riding the Phoenix to Penglai? You have not read the book yet. It appears that you do not understand Ms. Gonet’s commentary and do not understand Sun Bu-Er’s teaching and you do not know Ma Dan-Yang’s teaching. Why you are here to disturb others’ discussion and conversations in this Forum? What is your motivation at this Forum? Is it just for selling yourself as a Neidan master with your advertising? This Forum is for discussing about Riding the Phoenix to Penglai and for talking about female internal cultivation. Do you know that your attitude and behavior are so arrogant, rude, disrespectful, forceful, abusive, and invasive to women? Do these kinds of attitude and behavior of yours come from your Neidan training? Or are these kinds of attitude and behavior the unique De expressions of your Yu Xian Pain school? Sometimes, Opendao appears smart and intelligent and a great Neidan master. If you want to sell yourself as a Neidan master and expert, it would be great if you can prove it first. You have not answered my questions yet. I might have asked you too many questions last time. Let’s make it simple and easy for you. This time I only ask you the following three questions: Have you experienced the spiritual Pivot within? If yes, please give an example and be specific. Have you seen the flight of golden sparks? If yes, please give an example and be specific. Which level of Neidan cultivation you have completed? Any certificate or evidence? You said that the ladies in this Forum are lying. Can you give more specific examples? For example, Quantumdragon, on 16 Aug 2015 - 07:50 AM, said: Opendao has not begun the beginning steps of firing, purifying or bathing. And he has not activated any of his organ systems at all. Is this true or not true? If this is not true, please give evidence to prove it. Daeluin, thank you so much for providing such helpful information. I agree. The authors of Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji are Zhongli Quan and Lü Dongbin. Lü Dongbin is Wang Chongyang’s teacher; and Wang Chongyang is Ma Danyang’s teacher. Ma Danyang is the founder of Yu Xian Pai. Above masters all know how to use the five phases operation of the organ qi to transform the postnatal into the prenatal. My internal elixir cultivation teacher knows it. In Qigong practice, there is a method called “五炁朝元法” which also can be used to transform the postnatal into the prenatal. My Qigong teacher knows how to do it. However, Opendao does not know how to use the five phases operation of the organ qi to transform the postnatal into the prenatal, which indicates that Opendao does not know Ma Danyang , the founder’s teaching and there is no direct transmission to Opendao. Quantumdragon said that she cannot verify the authenticity of the Linage that instructs him (Opendao) or better his relationship with and his understanding of the Great Patriarch's Teachings. Is this true or not true? If this is not true, please give evidence to prove it.

Thank you for offering your energetic assessment of Opendao and for providing some of his pre-heaven information. I am impressed with your assessment and observations. They are very insightful and helpful. I observed Opendao’s energetic system last night, and I agree with you that Opendao has not begun the beginning steps of firing, purifying or bathing. And he has not activated any of his organ systems at all. So there are big gaps between your internal cultivation and his Neidan/pre-heaven cultivation. I don’t think that he can understand your experience and energetic assessment on his energy and pre-heaven information. He is not happy to see that you can not only read his energy system but also you can read his pre-heaven information. Opendao appears smart and intelligent and a great Neidan master. Opendao claims that he works with Neidan, works with Yuan QI / Preheaven / Primordial / Authentic / Original NOT postnatal existence. But the reality is that he knows how to find postnatal knowledge and information, copy and paste, but he has not realized himself yet, he cannot speak from his own internal experience with his own realization, and he even does not know where his mind is and he is not aware of his subconscious and internal organ conscious conditioning. Quantumdragon is right that at this point, only post heaven is ruling Opendao’s body. Opendao appears a great Neidan master. He claims to know Yuan Jing, Yuan QI / Preheaven / Primordial / Authentic / Original, but he does not know the relationships between post-heaven and pre-heaven and does not know how to transform post-heaven energy to serve the pre-heaven’s needs. Quantumdragon has already experienced and demonstrated the process of postnatal energy transformation to prenatal energy and then to work on the internal elixir cultivation as the follows: This is an excellent example of postnatal energy transformation. In the traditional way, this process was described as Dragon and Tiger Mating. This is another example of prenatal energy interactions during your internal cultivation and Qigong practice. Your expression of this internal alchemical cultivation is authentic, original and elegant! You don’t need to use other people’s words, your authentic expression is great. Be confident! Quantumdragon practices Qigong with pre-heaven / Primordial / Authentic Qi experience and Opendao works with Yuan QI / Preheaven / Primordial / Authentic / Original but trapped in post-heaven. This is very amusing.

It sounds that Opendao is great Neidan master. And your above statement is fascinating. It would be great to hear your philosophy and methods regarding how did you make such conclusion. Is it from your pre-heaven expression or post-heaven studies? Do you have any evidence and references about your statement? What kind of Neidan classics and scriptures have you studied so far? Which level of Neidan cultivation you have completed? Can you share some of your Neidan cultivation experience? Have you experienced the spiritual Pivot within? Have you seen the flight of golden sparks? Do you know that some individuals have experiential understanding and realization about Yuan QI / Preheaven / Primordial / Authentic / Original through Qigong practice?

Thank you so much for your advice, Opendao. Following your suggestion, I focused on myself and ask myself why I don’t understand basic things you are talking about. I just figured out that Opendao is extremely smart! So it takes more efforts for Xuanming to understand your basic things. I would greatly appreciate it if you would let me know if I understand your basic things, as follows: You believe that internal elixir used yuan Jing (original Jing) not sexual Jing. You agree that the yuan Jing (original Jing) can be declined or drained out by excess sexual activity and sexual energy flow outward and leak out. Am I right about this? You do not believe the path can be reversed or you do not believe that the sexual energy or the energy of reproductive organ can be transformed to authentic Qi. Is this your understanding? You believe that the internal elixir cultivation has no any relationship with the principles of internal cultivation and stated: “That's all Qigong that has no relation to Neidan of any traditional school.” My teacher is the 13th generation lineage holder of the internal elixir school. And my teacher told me that it is important to understand the meaning and steps of the principles of internal cultivation. It seems that my teacher is not in your neidan school list. It seems that you think that neidan is not Qigong and not related to authentic Qi cultivation. Is this your understanding? Xuanming, on 15 Aug 2015 - 11:53, said: When you arrived on earth after your birth, you started your postnatal life. Everything you do including what you eat, what you say, what you think, and what you do all can affect the condition and status of your primal spirit. Opendao said: “no, it doesn't, such things affect xin-mind only.” For example, if you have sexual addiction, or project angers to others or hate others and cause harm to others, you think these kind of behavior affect your mind only but do not affect the status of your primal spirit. Is this your belief and understanding? Xuanming, on 15 Aug 2015 - 11:53, said: The postnatal transformation serves the growth and development of the primal spirit--this is the core practice of Taoist spirituality and immortality. Opendao said: “no, such way nor spirituality, nor immortality cannot be achieved, or all people would become immortals through the natural "postnatal transformation". What’s wrong if all people would become immortals with great health and no sufferings? Do you think that only yourself can become an immortal but not any others? Have you read Innersoundqigong’s post? How do you think about the postnatal sexual energy transformation?

Thank you for sharing your understanding on internal elixir cultivation and for introducing the teaching from Yu Xian Pai practice. The founder of Yu Xian Pai school is Ma Dan-Yang who directly received transmission and blessing from his teacher, Wang Chong-Yang. He was also the Dragon Gate founder, Qiu Chu-Ji’s mentor. Transforming the Jing essence to primordial Qi for nourishing the shen, is the unique practice of the complete reality school. If you do not know how to transform the Jing essence to primordial Qi, your pre-heaven Jing can easily become postnatal Jing and leak out. Lao Zi, Lü Chun-Yang, Wang Chong-Yang, Ma Dan-Yang, Sun Bu-Er, all know how to transform the Jing essence to primordial Qi for nourishing the shen. In my view, the complete reality school teaches the main following training: Cultivate the body--with authentic Qi cultivation to increase the awareness level of the internal body for internal healing and transformation, including reversing the internal energy flow from outward to inward, stop leaking original Jing and primordial Qi; heal health conditions, and transform unhealthy behavior such as sexual addition, or substance addiction, etc. This involves the first two steps of internal cultivation a)炼精化炁 (transforming the postnatal jing essence to prenatal or primordial qi), 炼炁养神 (refining prenatal qi to nourish the mind); Cultivating the mind--with peaceful mind meditation and quiet sitting to transform the conscious mind and ego to serve the growth and development of the primal spirit; this is the third step c) 炼神化虚 (refining the mind to the primal spirit--shen); The primal spirit-authentic self returns to oneness with the Tao, obtains spiritual freedom, returns to the true home of heaven and achieves spiritual immortality. This is the fourth step d) 炼虚合道 (refining the primal spirit to accordance with the Tao). When you arrived on earth after your birth, you started your postnatal life. Everything you do including what you eat, what you say, what you think, and what you do all can affect the condition and status of your primal spirit. The postnatal transformation serves the growth and development of the primal spirit--this is the core practice of Taoist spirituality and immortality. Your statement “postnatal cannot be converted to anything primordial” raised my concerns about the teaching of Yu Xian Pai today, because your statement suggests that the current Yu Xian Pai does not know how to transform postnatal energy to serve the growth and development of the primal spirit. Where is the spirit of Ma Dan-Yang in the Yu Xian Pai today?

I am so delighted to hear that you teach Daogong (Neigong) and Yu Xian Pai. I agree with you that the Neidan (Internal Elixir) formation is related to cultivation of the original Jing, primordial qi and the primal spirit-Shen. There are many schools in Taoist internal elixir cultivation practice. Majority of the Taoist schools all agree that the principles of internal cultivation are 炼精化炁 (transforming the postnatal jing essence to prenatal or primordial qi), 炼炁养神 (refining prenatal qi to nourish the mind), 炼神化虚 (refining the mind to the primal spirit-shen), and 炼虚合道 (refining the primal spirit to accordance with the Tao). It seems that you read some of the excerpt of Riding the Phoenix to Penglai, but you have not read the book. When I read Riding the Phoenix to Penglai, particularly the section of Taming the dragon, I did not see where Ms. Gonet says that the postnatal Jing is used in Neinan. I did see how Ms. Gonet emphasizes that the appropriate management of postnatal Jing-“sexual energy” is an important part of process in transforming the postnatal jing essence to prenatal or primordial qi. I do believe that you have deep experiential understanding on male Neigong and Yu Xian Pai practice. I would like to visit your class and learn from you about Yu Xian Pai practice. But it is interesting to hear Guys say: “we received the complete method of female elixir cultivation.” Regarding female internal alchemy, it would be great to hear advice and instructions from experienced and successful practitioners from the Purity and Tranquility school but not Guy’s assumptions and projections.

The founder of Yu Xian Pai school is Ma Danyang who was Sun Bu-Er’s husband. Both of them were students of Wang Chong-Yang, the founder of complete reality school. I am so delighted to hear that you have been studying internal elixir cultivation from the complete reality school. Are you teaching Taoist practices in Vancouver, BC?

One of my live teachers is Wudao Zhenzi, internal elixir school 13 generation lineage holder. At this point, I do not have permission from my other teachers to publish their names on the internet. I am also curious about your experience in Taoist training. Who are your teachers?

I hope that your conversation about Riding the Phoenix to Penglai will be on your topic and on the subject without disruptions or without conversation hijacker from now on.

I don’t consider myself a great master, but I do think that I am a truehearted student of the Dao and a sincere internal cultivator. I am so fortunate to have live teachers and companionship in my journey of Dao cultivation. So I can discuss and confirm my experiences and realizations with my teachers and experienced and self-realized practitioners. I am grateful to my teachers and companionship. It is important to be safe and able to prevent delusions and misunderstanding on internal experiences on the path of Daoist cultivation. So Daoist cultivators can successfully realize the authentic self, achieve internal freedom like Lü Dongbin (as he stated in his poem—the Secret of Freedom) or like Sun Bu-Er who found her true home--Penglai.

Wow! Great awareness, deep realization, and wise advice! Thank you.

Taoist Texts, I am so happy to hear that you found a true live teacher so quickly and found yourself. It sounds like you had a significant realization or sudden enlightenment (明心见性). So, now do you believe in live teachers? Can you trust yourself?

It is so exciting to see that Taoist Texts began to have self-awareness about himself and found a nice quote to express his self-evaluation. It is also good to hear that Taoist Texts wants to break through the gate of speculation and guesswork, reject commonplace boastful talents and machinations, and seek and visit a true teacher who will clearly explain the secrets to him. It is very significant for Taoist Texts to be aware of how he uses his own false cleverness, and enters into wild arguments and guesswork, to fool himself. For example: This post shows a) Taoist Texts has an inflated big fat ego with disrespect—Have not read this exact book yet, don’t know the book content yet, but assume knows better than the book author; and read the original, but does not understand the meaning of the original, so provided false cleverness, entered into wild arguments and guesswork, and used false information to criticize the book author’s exceptional work. Above Taoist Texts’ translation and commentary of the Poem “Bathing” demonstrated his language talent and skills and showed his experience and understanding of Dao cultivation—no experience and does not understand the meaning of the poem at all. Even though he has no internal cultivation experience and does not understand the meaning of the poem, he pretends that he knows better than people who have rich experience of internal cultivation with internal realization. Opendao had a simple and brilliant question about the second line of Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem “The Secret of Freedom,” as shown in the above. Taoist Texts’ response to Opendao’s question showed that Taoist Texts did not know the meaning of the second line of the poem at all. He was not able to answer Opendao’s question, but still pretends that he knows better than Opendao who has actual Daoist practice experience. Above posts have shown that Taoist Texts is not a truehearted student of the Dao and not a Taoist practitioner. Now he expresses his desire to seek a true teacher who will clearly explain the secrets to him. So far, it seems that no enlightened teacher or skilled teacher wants to teach Taoist Texts, due to his false cleverness, disrespectful character and arrogant nature without De-virtues. This leads him to believe that no live teachers will teach the secrets to him. Taoist Texts might be right about this—his experience has shown that Taoist Texts has no Yuanfen with the Dao. Now Taoist Texts expresses his desire to seek a true teacher who will clearly explain the secrets to him. I hope that it is not too late for him to find a true live teacher who may explain the secrets to him.

Hi Taoist Texts, Thank you for translating Walker’s post and my response to Walker’s post. Hi Quantumdragon I thought that Walker’s post is excellent, because it shows the understanding on the Dao cultivation and respectful to teachers. It strongly emphasizes the importance to have an enlightened teacher for pointing out the Gate of Xuan. I agree. (the Gate of Xuan may not be dark, can be bright and colorful). In my response to Walker's post, I wanted to share that 1) an enlightened teacher is important for Dao cultivators; 2) the achievements of Dao cultivators depends on her or his own efforts including a) diligent practice; in addition to hard work and practice, the key for making significant progress on the Dao cultivation is profound self-realization; and c) be careful and don’t get confused and sidetracked.

I have the same question. I hope that Ms. Gonet would join our conversation. Regarding the character Xuan (玄), certainly you can translate as darkness, or mystery, or secret; literally, however, in Master Lü Dongbin’s poem, he is talking about the advanced internal cultivation. Hi Taoist Texts, have you practiced Taoist quiet sitting before? If yes, have you experienced the state of emptiness, or the empty space between thoughts or between images or between thought and image? During the quiet sitting practice, if you observe the thoughts or images in your mind screen carefully, you may experience an interesting phenomenon: a time frame of past-present-future changes to future-present-past. In the beginning, a thought stays in the mind for while, then goes away, and becomes the past. Then a new thought comes; before this present thought goes away, another future thought is waiting to come into the mind. You may find there is an empty space between thoughts or between images, or between thought and image. Master Lü Dongbin’s玄中玄 (Xuan in the xuan), echoes Lao Zi’s Dao De Jing beautifully as chapter one states: 道 可 道 ， 非 常 道 。 名 可 名 ， 非 常 名 。 无 名 天 地 之 始 ﹔ 有 名 万 物 之 母 。 故 常 无 ， 欲 以 观 其 妙 ﹔ 常 有 ， 欲 以 观 其 徼 。 此 两 者 ， 同 出 而 异 名 ， 同 谓 之 玄 。玄 之 又 玄 ， 众 妙 之 门 。 Here Lao Zi gave the Xuan a new meaning: state of mind between emptiness and new thought or image appearance, or between the Wu and You, in other words, Xuan means the Gate of Dao, the First Entrance of the Dao of Internal Cultivation. This Gate of Xuan is not easy to enter for people who have very strong intellectual drive or big fat ego, particularly inflated big fat ego. Master Lü Dongbin’s玄中玄 (Xuan in the xuan), echoes Lao Zi’s玄 之 又 玄 (Entering further into deep state of Xuan after the Gate of Xuan).

Thank you for pointing out the essence of the time of Mao and You. This expression of the image of Kan is brilliant, beautiful and inspiring! Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for your efforts and your excellent translation and for sharing the version of translation from the Secret of Golden Flower. They all are very helpful. The title of this poem is the Secret of Freedom Here, the freedom Master Lü Dongbin refers to the freedom of the spirit. 玉清留下逍遥诀， The first line was talking about the source of the secret. Master Lü shared that the secret method was told by the Jade Purity. Regarding the second line: 四字凝神入气穴 Oendao made a good point regarding the second line. The secret practice is to congeal the mind into the true aperture (or lair) at midnight 1-3 am (or at living baby time (活子时). 四(four)字(character) at here refers to time (1-3am or living baby time). As quantumdragon pointed out: you may find Sun Bu-Er’s first peom-Recalling the mind is very helpful to understand this second line. Riding the Phoenix to Penglai (page 14, 28) 六月俄看白雪飞， 三更又见日轮赫； 水中吹起籍巽风， The third, four and fifth lings are expressions of internal experience from internal cultivation. 天上游歸食坤德； Sixth line is advice for people who are living on the earth to establish virtues in accordance with the Dao. Because the virtues are the essence and nutrients for spiritual growth and development. 更有一句玄中玄， 无何有乡是真宅。 The last two lines in this poem are expressions of the outcomes from the internal cultivation and living in accordance with the Dao: realized the authentic self and found the true spiritual home. You may find that the Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a brilliant expression of Sun Bu-Er, who found her true home, Penglai. Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.” Both translations sound great literally. But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately. Are there any comments, input and suggestions?

明師苦心领进门 弟子修行在个人 道在苦修与妙悟 莫入迷津走弯路

Have you read Master Lü Dongbin‘s The Secret of Freedom? The Secret of Freedom (Translation by Thomas Cleary) Jadelike purity has left a secret of freedom In the lower world: Congeal the spirit in the lair of energy, And you'll suddenly see White snow flying in midsummer, The sun blazing in the water at midnight. Going along harmoniously, You roam in the heavens, Then return to absorb The virtues of the receptive. ??? ??? Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem is the following: 逍遥诀 玉清留下逍遥诀， 四字凝神入气穴； 六月俄看白雪飞， 三更又见日轮赫； 水中吹起籍巽风， 天上游歸食坤德； 更有一句玄中玄， 无何有乡是真宅。 Hi Taoist Texts, What do you think about the translation of this poem by Thomas Cleary? I respect Thomas Cleary and appreciate his work. But I am surprised this translation was not completed- the last two lines were not translated. It seems that he does not understand the meaning of the two lines. Actually the last two lines in this poem are very important. Is it possible for you to translate this poem with your own version or at least to translate the last two lines and explain the meanings of the last two lines? Quantumdragon has experienced the pure freedom and ecstasy during the internal cultivation practice, and wants to offer assistance to you. I am thinking perhaps you and Quantumdragon would work together for a perfect and complete translation of Master Lü Dongbin‘s poem of Xiao Yao Jue.

Acupuncture meridians were second part of The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine, called “Ling Shu” and is translated as “The Spiritual Pivot.” It would be helpful for your internal cultivation and qigong practice if you understand the internal energy pathways and key acupuncture points. (You may find Acupuncture Handbook - 'Point Locations' Kindle Edition $4.90 helpful for you). On the other hand, the acupuncture meridians described in The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine were ancient, about 4, 000 years old. Today these meridians have not verified and updated yet. For example, there are no meridians of reproductive system, no meridians of lymphatic system, no meridians of endocrine system, no meridians of nerve system, no meridians of pancreas, in Ling Shu or traditional Chinese medicine (TCM). How TCM treat health conditions effectively without deep understanding of above meridians? Your internal authentic Qi experiences are impressive. It would be helpful and beneficial if you would discuss about your experience with your mentor for deepening your internal cultivation. With your authentic Qi cultivation, I hope that you will be able to verify the internal energy pathways and discover new relationships between internal energy pathways and pancreas, or endocrine system, or reproductive system, or nerve system or lymphatic system, etc.

Human body is an amazing vehicle for experiencing not only the physical reality but also emotional, energetic, mental and spiritual realities. Four thousand years ago, ancient internal authentic Qi cultivators discovered internal energy pathways or acupuncture meridians and the relationships between emotions and internal organs as described in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM). These discoveries all were based on internal experiences and realizations. Thus, experiences can be described. Energy interactions also can be described as examples of hexagrams in the Yi Jing (I Ching) system. Your conversation with Taoist Texts is a great start and interesting. I look forward to reading your conversations.

Regarding the “slaying dragon model” and alternative nüdan (female elixir) model from an energetic-physiological point of view, I don’t think that I am the right person to answer your question, because I am not a female practitioner. As a Daoist practitioner, I think that internal cultivators and Qigong practitioners should understand that “Slaying the Red Dragon” – uses a technique of breast massage and internal visualization to eliminate the physical menses, which is not equal to formation of nüdan successfully. For example, in the view of physiology, elimination of the physical menses is defined as Menopause, due to the natural depletion of ovarian oocytes from aging. In the view of neidan (internal elixir) cultivation, the alternative nüdan model should follow the process of transforming the Jing to Qi, and then transforming the Qi to nourish the Shen (spirit). In other words, the nüdan model should transform the internal energy flow from postnatal state to prenatal state. You may find Sun Bu-Er’s poem thirteen, Companion, Ms. Gonet’s translation and commentary (Riding the Phoenix to Penglai, page 81-84) are helpful for understanding the process of nüdan cultivation. Regarding my interpretation of Lü Dongpin's poem, it is a personal one based on my internal experience and realization and personal conversations with other experienced Daoist internal cultivators. It is not based on the information from other Daoist schools or the knowledge on the internet.

Beautiful poem!