blue eyed snake

i think there's a nice piece in the golden flower too, but for today I am finished sleepytime

i think it came along in a dutch newspaper or something, but this looks like somthing https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-eight-genders-in-the-talmud/

now that i call interesting

that was after you transitioned? or before?

it's a mess and all kinds of people have jumped on the bandwagon, to the detriment of us all. some years ago i was contemplating to come out of the closet, but now I won't. I do not like the term trans-people either. For myself it feels like two spirit people fits me, in modern terms I guess that would be nonbinary You've your own set of troubles and we all have. We also all like to have some recognition, especially friends who sort understand how we feel. There's totally no need to compare, loneliness and alienations seem to be part of the human condition. you're doing very well not being an asshole mister meerkat, you being the opposite of that. when saying that earns you moral scorn there's something wrong, not with you i mean. No, of course not. I know someone who sees himself as a misfit, self esteem so low you have to stoop to see it. Lovely guy, not much wrong with him that I can see, smart, lots of booklearning, Someone I can strike of real conversations with. It would feel very bad to see him as he sees him self and i would not do him justice. Or that person with a size 10 ego walking in a pair size 6 shoes, I will not see them as they see themselves, au contraire. ---- morals... once after I had struggled with something as a kid, that something being morals and no god or bible as a guideline I told my mom how I had solved it and she said: the important thing is that when you go to bed at night you can look into the mirror and not feel shame about your behavior. Even when a lot of people were angry at you today, you made a perfectly thought out decision from the kindness of your heart. They just did not understand you. That line still serves me

it's not, it's also not a personal choice for people to be lefthanded, or colorblind. when you still think being trans is a personal choice maybe take some lessons in reading comprehension, or on empathy, or being less judgmental.

interesting questions when you super oversimplify Neigong you could say that getting the lower dantien up and running is hard for guys as they tend to run after their dicks. For women it's a lot easier to get the LDT in working order. But for women it's hard to get the middle dantien "working' ( for want of a better word) as they tend to run after their feelings. So when you're cultivating in a group you'll see the ladies outperforming the men at first and then when the guys have picked up they see the ladies struggling with something that's easy for them, more or less. I've always suspected that these things are strongly correlated to hormones

I seem to remember that the Torah or adjacent scripture mentions 6 or maybe 8 genders 🤔

yeah well, it is like that, sometimes. but listen: I have a brother that identifies as lefthanded, do we accept that he identifies that way? or did he choose to be different. I get fed up with people who feel the need to identify different then the rest of us. ( I still hear him saying, after he got his first lefthanded pair of scissors: oh wow... cutting is not hard at all, being left handed used to come with a lot of pain and low selfesteem.) Trans people have a deep feeling of not being home in their body, I am one of them but I do have a problem. Not with trans people as I perceive them as kin. Whether they want or do surgery is up to them, once they are grownup, just like Brazilian butt lifts, mommy-makeovers and nosejobs and abdominal etching for the guys. It's not my thing but when people are allowed to get extra big tits surgically, why not allow them to have them removed. ( and I am happy that in my time surgery and such was impossible, glad the temptation was not there when I was young) What worries me is that nowadays they teach in schools that you can become whatever gender you like. That is wrong, I never chose my gender, it chose me and it was no party, it was a goddam struggle. Always to be the weird one, not to fit in, for teens that is the important thing. Not knowing why you feel that way, never even knowing that you're not alone, that there are more people out there like you. I was happy when the current generation changed that ----- Teaching like that will inevitably lead to youngsters " choosing" to be trans and getting hurt in the process. It's not "you can choose whatever you like", its: people are male or female, a very small proportion of people are born a little different, something went awry during pregnancy, those we call intersex people and there are also people who are sure that their body does not correspond with how they feel, that's called trans. On average there's one of those in every school. that's enough for education, just mentioning it exists is enough, those who recognize themselves will pick it up, for the rest it's just a detail easily forgotten. I do not know how the current line of teaching happened to land in the curriculum, but it's wrong, factually wrong and morally wrong and in the long run its bad for the well being of people like Maddie and me too, as people are right to not want that and they will take it out on transpeople.

I remember that in the seventies my mom talked about being female/femininity being for a large part a social construct. so that's sometime ago but I am sorry to say names or background elude me. my memory is failing me lately. but that the roles of men and women are for a large part constructed form the outside/by society is easily seen, So much has changed since that time.

I am a woman, born a woman, all of society regards me as woman but Maddie is more woman then I will ever be. Woman is mostly a societal construct whether you like that or not. I would like a good quality source for that, meaning some research. I know several trans people and as far as I am aware they're doing fine, a lot better then before transitioning.

you're a dear, I am at that stage of life were one says no to lifesaving surgery because the quality of life is more important then the quantity.

earlier in the thread there were mentions of indigenous people who accepted people with not normative gender and sexuality in their tribes. regarding the spiritual part of it, although I hate that word. It's the outer layer of the bubble, usually called the causal body that holds information about karma and former incarnations, a long line of male incarnations followed by a female incarnation could cause feeling male although the gross body is female.( and vice versa) So nothing has to be denied least of all the fact that some people are born like that and have to deal with it, that's not being helped by centuries of denial of our existence, man and woman he created them, and in the name of that god everybody that is different is still doomed. It's a deep groove in society.

hmm... it's also said in spiritual texts that we should try to find the balance between female and male. That males should look for their feminity and vice versa. i don't know about the energy body deciding anything, but energies do tend to behave different in male versus female bodies. And not every male body behaves like any other male body, neither does the chi. It's a continuum, where people like Maddie and me are on the outer sides. It's the society that prevents us from acting like the gender that we feel is right, that fits with the way our chi runs through and around the body. I mean, the body i currently live in looks like a fat old woman with big boobs, would I behave like a guy i would be laughingstock everywhere. for years I've wanted to have a beard and my voice a bit lower, would make life a lot nicer. Humans need to be part of a group, two spirit people have long been denied their place in society, I would like to see an end to that.

hmm for you and me it is so obvious, we both have been feeling that weird and unpleasant feeling of living in a body that just does not feel right But for most people there is a inheritance of many centuries were " man and woman" he created them, ruled supreme. That has shaped deep grooves in the thinking of the average Joe. I remember being so lonely, not knowing anybody who was like me or who even understood the idea of being born in wrong body. there were just those 2 choices, boy or girl, so of course I chose boy. had I been aware that i did not need to choose...but the dichotomy was an absolute given. I guess the younger generation would say I am nonbinary, I do not mind you can use any pronoun on me you like, I've heard them all I think most of the troubles of trans-people come of not being accepted by society, whether we hide ourselves, mask ourselves. We do not fit and that gives society at large a free hand in bullying. Even the existence of intersex people was kept hidden, parents of these children were admonished to keep it secret for the sake of there child. So most people had no idea there is something else then cispeople. it's gonna take a lot of time to change that groove and there are opposing forces. At least were I live, trans-people are seen and portrayed as a weird bunch of full-grown men wearing tutu's, cross-dressers, drag queens, men who dress up as women to be able to win at women sports, or to get entry into ladies toilets and sport-facilities. All of those people do exist but they are not what trans-people are, interestingly you only very rarely hear about trans-men. Those I know just want to be accepted in the role they feel they belong in, like you. No extravagance, you just live your life, do your job and experiment with ways to do your hair. and on social media I see trolls who say that trans-people are grooming the kids, portraying us as a danger. That's what tom, dick and harry and their girls hear and believe. We do not fit in the accepted groove, so we're bad. And I think were also scapegoated, it's due to the "trans-ideology" that all kinds of bad things happen, that sort of rubbish Last but not least there are worries about pubertyblockers and surgery, I understand that full well as it worries me too. I regard puberty-blockers as dangerous, it will stunt development that should take place, some important development takes place during puberty and the first research confirms my worries. For people born female a lack of estrogen will have severe repercussions on the body, we see that with women after menopause and the effects are not nice, to put it mildly. Think here connective tissue loosing strength and connectivity, organs prolapsing, teeth loose, joints hurting, plus of course osteoporosis. For myself, i am glad the choice was not there when I was young. Also a lot of children will grow out of wanting it because it was not that deep or there were other reasons not to be happy with the body. I've seen the clear positive developments in grownups after hormone-therapy and mastectomy but I have no idea how to make a decision-scheme for it. developmentally wise i would like an agecap of 23 before anything medical can happen, for 2 reasons 1 is that until that age the brain is still developing, new neural pathways are developed and the ability to plan and organize and make good decisions is still expanding. That should not be stunted. secondly Because of the developmental weakness to look into the future due to those functions not yet being finished, I do not think it wise to trust a child or a teenager with such a decision.

oh, well, lets call that a Freudian slip of the keyboard.

Waiting-lists for registration and after that waiting-list for treatment. Plus when you have several "disorders" together they can simply decide you were on the wrong waitinglist for registration after all and put you on another waitinglist for registration. https://www.vzinfo.nl/wachttijden/geestelijke-gezondheidszorg Cases of autistic people who are traumatized and depressed, are deemed "too complicated" and chucked around because nobody wants them. Some of those will suicide during that waitinglist period, I deem that a societal disorder. there's a lot more profit in simple singular disorders, see there's the easy buck again.

well that starts with the concept of disorder- what is a disorder I've had many conversations about that with youngsters who were deemed ' disordered' and rightly did not like that one bit I always told them that to me it means that you do not manage to live live independently once you're grownup and that there were still years to see whether that outcome would be reached. Same with homophilia, no, that's not a disorder, its a variation then onto this topic, I do not regard "living in the body of the other sex" as a disorder. I do however, see a girl that wants to be a boy quite suddenly after she has been abused and raped as ' temporarily disordered', here menaning, needing loving care and speaking out and whatevers. In need of recognition and help. are intersex children disordered, is there something wrong with them? do those babies need to have cut there genitalia and stamped male or female ( mostly female, cutting off is easier) The are not average but as long as the biological functions are okay, meaning they can pee and poop, to me there is no reason whatsoever to cut in these kids. the reason sits with a society that does not tolerate people diverging from the mean. story I heard last year, a lady had one of her boobs removed due to cancer, already before surgery she had told the surgeon she did not want a reconstruction tit but please make it a nice flat chest. So after surgery, radiation and chemo the cancer was gone. What happens at the next consult with the doctor, he wanted to make an appointment for reconstruction surgery, well no she said, we've covered that topic. pressure was added, she should really consent to reconstruction it would make her happier et cetera, well no she repeated, I am mighty glad you all managed to remove the cancer from my body and now I've planned a holiday, this episode is now hopefully behind me More pressure. No well, I send you to a psychologist to talk this over as you're making a decision that is not in your interest. this lady had thought it over, was intelligent, well spoken and chose something that did not fit in with the societal norms. She was treated like she was not able to make up her own mind. so she had to fight to prevent getting a silicon tit, were it's seemingly not a problem to do double mastectomies on teenagers. who said something about making an easy dollar

I do think reincarnation is a fact, but at the same time everybody that comes blabbing to me about suffering and how to deal with it i invite to walk a mile in my moccasins and after that we 'll pick up the conversation. (tip of my thoughts, when you break your leg will you not have it set but just meditate on it that hurt is a passing thing? that it does not matter that from now on you will not be able to walk as the body after all is just a vehicle et cetera)) and regarding reincarnation, I once read theory that transgender people have changed sex after a long row of incarnations with the other sex. For me that would mean that after a long row of male incarnations I now walk this earth in a female body. Still many "hooks" in those former incarnations I will feel like a man. I think it's plausible.

yes, and that is the experience of people I know too. That's not data, it's only three persons, but seeing how they transformed from sad, struggling people, shoulders hanging, to vibrant personalities was a joy to look at. But somehow we need to take care that we are sure that youngsters presenting with a wish to change their body are truly trans people. the other thing that worries me in that regard is the young age, as yet it is not known what pubertyblocker do with your body in the long run but there are some red flags waving at me.

thats naive, there's a scarcity of therapists, waitinglists of a year are not unusual, they can do whatevers. Their patients often are desperate for help, i know parents...ah well the whole setup is unbalanced, the therapists always holds power. I will not go further into it, it's deranging the thread

of course I know that, i formerly was a child psychologist. But they do not sell it as conversiontherapy, but as prayersesssion or something like that. besides the parents send the kids so nobody is going to comply yes, in the ideal world it would be, but the world is not ideal and I regularly hear the side of patients and their crying mothers,. Not nice, but not much can be done as it is the word of the patient against that of the therapist, the powerinbalance is enormous and most people are not able to endure the added stressor of a formal complaint. yes, and even there it's getting worse, they now want to put everybody with a psychological problem and an IQ lower then 85 under that rule. thats deemed cheaper ( for they you can read thepeole who hold the money)

thats one way of putting it maybe they had a problem with it, I don't I prefer dressing in jeans with a shirt or jeans with a pulllover and anybody that tells me I should be more feminine to be happy can get some words from me

yes, but my experience has taught me that the therapists I met had their own ideas. Reason for coming was depression and some ingrained behavioral patterns from my childhood. Next they pushed feminine clothing and lipstick and whatever nonsense on me because they thought it would make me feel better. When i patiently explained it was totally beside the point i was labelled an unwilling difficult patient that did not understand the real problems, their problem was nicely solved. the client was unwilling and not able to understand her problems at the moment were fighting to get ABA out of our institutions, ABA is making autistic children behave as the children of the neighbors. One in three kids gets traumatized by it. and still it i sold as preferred treatment. How nice it must be to live in such a fairyparadise, the reality from the side of the patients often is very different we have some christian therapist doing conversion therapy for trans-kids, oh, they do not call it such, but thats what they do. they do not seem to be much bothered by ethical codes other then their christian beliefsystem. when you live in whatever institution every fucking therapy can be made mandatory on the whim of the psychologist and other personnel working there. sorry to disabuse you of some naive thoughts.

I grew up in a time were the whole thing was unheard of, i remember once I saw a person on a train that i was not able to figure out whether (s)he was man or woman. I probably stared, 11 years old at a guess, we had a nice conversation. I still remember because it was the first and only person i had that reminded me of myself, someone like me, it was glorious moment But I never had a choice whether to change body (or mind), it was just like: this is what you are, figure out a way to live your life and without thinking I chose boy, that was good for me, the woman I did choose later ( under societal pressure i may add) has made me unhappy, was far more playing a role then being a man was. And about surgery, our whole society is like that, don't like you big nose - cut. want bigger tits, fill up, bigger butt, Lift and fill. "nicer" female parts labiaplasty. Saggy from bearing kids, mommy makeover. It makes me nauseous tbh we are taught that the body is for us to change as we want it, in everything, as long as we have money to pay for it of course. Then when we get old and those scars play up and hurt, or the labiaplasty rips open during childbirth, then those nice doctors are not very nice anymore. Little intersex babies get surgery too- cut and you get stamped, this one is male, that one is female. humanity is literally cut in 2 parts, man and woman he made them, and the small minded people will take care everybody gets pushed into that mould. we do not learn to accept, to find out what we are. I do not think i needed to have counseling to become a woman, i am okay as I am, i do not want any psych or counselor to try to change that. It's very different from the backlash of an abusive childhood in that aspect. also I think there is a more spiritual part underlying what modern doctors call " genderdysphoria" as it is who I am (at least temporary, in this life, but that is an aspect that no counselor that I know of weighs) I am glad the time were i lived forced me to just muddle through best i could. during my life i played both roles.I ended up thinking/living that its totally irrelevant whether I am woman or man. That feels as a satisfactory outcome. oops, i got carried away