Bindi

Some cautionary words by the Indian sage Sri Aurobindo to his disciples, referring to what he called “the Intermediate Zone, a dangerous and misleading transitional spiritual and pseudo-spiritual region between the ordinary consciousness of the outer being and True Realisation”.

Certainly the most popular view Nonetheless, if logic (plus a bit more) takes me to the gate, then I've achieved everything I need to achieve. I don't personally feel the need to pre-empt or emulate nondual perception or purity.

If it's correct to say we are still apparently bound by ego, how are you understanding “You are not bound by anything. What does a pure person like you need to renounce?"

As far as I understand it, the sixth paramita allows one to go beyond dualistic thoughts and ego-clinging, where everything is realised as a transparent display of primordial truth beyond the 'mind'. Maybe we could stick to the sutras that are attributed to the direct sayings of (Shakyamuni) Buddha as you suggested earlier, having a quick look at some of the book Dakini Teachings I found one view can be contradicted by an alternative view sometimes within the one paragraph, and with such a broad perspective anything could be quoted to prove just about anything. I certainly found a lot of material in it that outright disagrees with your quote above.

"This paramita is the enlightened quality of transcendental wisdom, insight, and the perfection of understanding... [which allows us to] go beyond dualistic thoughts and ego-clinging... and transforms the other five paramitas." Isn't this really the path to the transcendental truth, which you disavowed previously when you said:

If “the ego mind still is lodged in the center-stage of our apparent being-ness...” then wouldn’t it be correct to say we are still apparently bound by ego?

Determination: Please, Ananda, strive for the true goal, be committed to the true goal, dwell heedful, ardent, & resolute for the sake of the true goal - Maha-Parinibbana Sutta ​The fourth Paramita: 4. The Perfection of Effort and Enthusiastic Perseverance (Virya Paramita) This paramita is the enlightened quality of energy, vigour, vitality, endurance, diligence, enthusiasm, continuous, persistent effort. In order to practice the first three paramitas of generosity, virtuous conduct, and patience in the face of difficulties, we need this paramita of effort and perseverance. Persistent effort makes the previous paramitas increase and become even more powerful influences in our life. The essence of this paramita of effort is the courage, energy, and endurance to continuously practice the Dharma and pursue the supreme goal of enlightenment for the highest good of all beings. From a feeling of deep compassion for the suffering of all sentient beings, we are urged to unfailing, persistent, and joyous effort. We use our body, speech, and mind to work ceaselessly and untiringly for the benefit of others, with no expectations for personal recognition or reward. We are always ready to serve others to the best of our ability. With right effort, devoted energy, and the power of sustained application, we practice the Dharma without getting sidetracked by anything or failing under the influence of laziness. Without developing Virya Paramita, we can become easily disillusioned and drop our practice when we meet with adverse conditions. The word virya means persistence and perseverance in the face of disillusionment, energetically striving to attain the supreme goal of enlightenment. When we cultivate this type of diligence and perseverance we have a strong and healthy mind. We practice with persistent effort and enthusiasm because we realise the tremendous value and benefit of our Dharma practice. Firmly establishing ourselves in this paramita, we also develop self-reliance, and this becomes one of our most prominent characteristics. With right effort and enthusiastic perseverance, we regard failure as simply another step toward success, danger as an inspiration for courage, and affliction as another opportunity to practice wisdom and compassion. To develop strength of character, self-reliance, and the next paramita of concentration, is not an easy achievement, thus we need enthusiastic perseverance on the path. http://dharmamind.net/teachings/the-6-parimitas/

Yet stories of Buddha’s enlightenment tend to focus more on his determination than going with the flow, and this is more the determination that I had in mind initially. “There he remained, emphasizing a meditation called “space-like concentration on the Dharmakaya” in which he focused single-pointedly on the ultimate nature of all phenomena [for six years.]” “He seated himself beneath the Bodhi Tree in the meditation posture and vowed not to rise from meditation until he had attained perfect enlightenment. With this determination he entered the space-like concentration on the Dharmakaya.” http://www.aboutbuddha.org/english/life-of-buddha-4.htm/

Thanks Dwai, I did read some of the Ashtavakra Gita, and I find various descriptions of it as ‘radical non dualism’ and ‘radical unity of Universal Consciousness’ to be quite apt. At its most radical are verses such as: “You are really unbound and action-less, self-illuminating and spotless already. The cause of your bondage is that you are still resorting to stilling the mind.” “You are not bound by anything. What does a pure person like you need to renounce? Putting the complex organism to rest, you can go to your rest.” I personally tend to look at the other side of the equation, as I focus almost exclusively on the ‘causes of my bondage’ and trying to unravel these causes.

Have to reconcile which two sides? I don't understand how this relates to fear?

I asked “Wouldn’t letting go of desire be the goal of meditation and following the Dharma” ... and following the Dharma... is this also residing, and not a doing with an intended goal?

Interestingly, of the 45 members that responded to the energy work poll, 95.5% said that they did do some sort of energy cultivation. This does suggest that fear might not be quite as prevalent as you are suggesting here. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/41937-energy-work-poll/#entry708419

Wouldn’t letting go of desire be the goal of meditation and following the Dharma according to your quote? “But if you meditate And follow the dharma You will free yourself from desire.” Is ‘freeing oneself from desire’ a transcendental truth to be realised? What about seeing that things are impermanent, and understanding that existence is illusion? These seem pretty transcendental to me.

Sorry Jeff, I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate with this post, could you explain what you mean?

This is popular in my kids primary school

And yet Pilgrim himself posted a negative opinion, when he spoke of someone's guru as “nothing but a fraud on a massive scale” and “decided he was a waste of time.” http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/23453-yogiraj-satgurunath-siddhanath/page-3#entry723665 If opinions are to be discouraged, I think it should be across the board and for all members, not just in the topics that you prefer.

So would you call Buddha deluded, determined as he was to attain enlightenment?

He had deleted his posts by 4.50 am yesterday, after seeker of healing's single comment. Any further discussion regarding fake stages was well after this, so either he is extremelyy sensitive, or he had other reasons to delete his posts.

Well I do admit I am pursuing a defined goal, and I think that goal can be classed as a transcendental truth. In line with Sri Aurobindo's quote, I just recognise that I haven't arrived at my goal yet. Do you not see any transcendental truth or Self or Buddha Self to be realised?

I don't think he was saying he had a rough reception, I think he read a few kundalini topics and decided from that to delete his.

Kundalini (Sanskrit: "a coiled female serpent") from kundala, "coil of a rope" meaning either coiled up or coiling like a snake — is the divine cosmic energy. It is a term in yoga, referring to a reservoir of psychic energy at the base of the spine. Kundalini is curled up in the back part of the root chakra in three and one-half turns. This force or energy is symbolized as a coiled and sleeping serpent lying dormant in the lowest nerve centre at the base of the spinal column, the Muladhara-chakra. This latent energy has to be aroused and made to ascend the main spinal channel, the Susumna piercing the chakras right up to the Sahasrara, the thousand-petalled lotus in the head. Then the Yogi is in union with the Brahman (Supreme Universal Soul). http://veda.wikidot.com/kundalini

Those who have great realization of delusion are buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings. --Dogen

I would see it as a fake stage unless it can be raised in the most central channel, and 1000 things have been pre-prepared. But I am a kundalini nazi Really it's a new age mess in the West as far as I can see, and many of the Indian type guru's are just as bad anyway.

Yes, I have found exactly the same in the heart area, for me it's been a place to become aware of and address ego issues.

No I don't think neidan and kundalini are two different systems, It's a shame you feel you can't expand on your understanding of the association between them here, I would have been interested.