Bindi

WOW!

I considered my issues to have everything to do with you and Light practices, and was repeatedly told by you and the Light folk that my issues were all to do with my own fear, and nothing to do with Light energy. From my perspective, I had a vision of a hand trying to prise open a cap that should be carefully unscrewed over time at my base chakra. I didn't see it as a fear response, but as an exact description of what your energy was doing to my energy body, trying to prise an energy source open, using force, very unsubtle. I also had unwanted sexual attention from an unidentified astral body which had never happened before and has never happened since my brief energy work with you. All you did was deny it had anything to do with you.

You do recall that you suggested I join LU a couple of years ago don't you? And when I did I then told you that it seemed kind of weird, and at the time you agreed. I haven't used that account for a long time, anyone can say any sort of nonsense there as far as I'm concerned and good luck to them. I looked at LU's member list recently to see what 80% crossover membership looked like, and I saw some names that I recognised first from here. Anyway this is making it about me, my first post on this thread was voicing my opinion that Daobum members were being funnelled into LU. But now that it's come up, as far as me persisting with the issue, if I think something is negative, at what point do I reasonably stop voicing that opinion, if the issue itself persists - in this case daobum members being drawn into Light practices?

People are remarkably quiet when it comes to their negative attitude to Light practices after either brief exposure or longer ones, you'll just have to trust me that this negativity exists, and that people have come forward and shared their issues with me privately. There are two potentially negative issues I am thinking of, one is being opened up to entities in an uncontrolled way, ie. when you can't control when an entity visits anymore, and the second is having kundalini energy initiated - and there are all sorts of issues related to this. I just see Light practices as a very dangerous path to take, it's not personal angst at this stage. Okay, I won't refer to just newbies, more Daobum members in general being heavily exposed to Light practices through this site. But it is also true that just about every newbie with any issue is given the Jeff treatment. Levels of consciousness might be interesting, but Light folk consider themselves so extremely advanced in this regard, there's not really any common ground with us normal folk. In fact, spiritual super stardom and ego fulfillment seems to be one of the key achievements of Light work.

Jeff referred (in Daobums general chat) to 80% of the LU members also being members here, it seemed like a very high crossover membership, certainly far beyond coincidence, and suggests that Jeff is the one actually counting. Personally I notice both new and old Daobum members suddenly talking about Light practices here on the Daobums and I make what I consider to be a reasonable assumption that they are Daobum members who have become involved in Light practices, and the 80% figure set off alarm bells for me. How does this affect me? I was of course a newbie who got involved with Jeff when I first joined Daobums, and consider that week or so to have been a very dangerous time for me spiritually, so it pains me to see the newbies who come here being checked out by Jeff and invited to do Light practices. This is of course my own personal perspective on Light practices, I know there are others who have been exposed to Light stuff and feel similarly to me, as well as those who think it is the best thing that ever happened to them. In that sense anyone is free to make independent choices and leave Light practices whenever they like, but aren't there some potentially negative aspects of Light practice that can never be left behind once they are begun?

But this is nonetheless 3 people who have responded all who were on Daobums first. My time frames might be a bit out, but I did see a trend of Daobum names suddenly talking about Light practices. Maybe I should reword it as Daobums seems like a fertile place to bring in new Light members, regardless of where the practices are then done.

Okay, so maybe it's not all newbies. Certainly some older Daobum members are heading that way.

It does seem to me that members are funnelled from here to LU, whether that's intentional or not. New Daobum members, especially those asking for help with an issue, are very often 'checked out' here and then invited to experience energy directly at this forum, the next step is then LU because any move to set up open organised group energy work at Daobums has failed. How else can an 80% membership crossover between the two sites be explained?

I feel that just as there is a lower and higher mind and lower and higher senses, there is also a lower and higher ego. I believe the lower ego does need to be pulled apart and examined and 'dissolved', but after that process or even more perhaps during that process somewhere, ego is reassembled but this time deliberately and maturely, not as knee jerk reactions to the world around us from a very young age.

I thought Sean's approach was to allow all opinions, as long as they were on topic, but if you say only shallow opinion is allowed, then that's that. GoT it.

How is a reference to motion and rest not on topic exactly?

We can talk about pissing in rivers without getting mod team notices, just can't refer to Greek philosophical perspectives that might be extremely relevant and on topic, right?

I thought examining what might be meant by motion and rest in Greek philosophy might shed light on its meaning in GoT, did you get complaints about my post?

Agreed. I gather much of this early gnostic thought came from Greek philosophy as well, maybe even more than from Eastern thought. For example google "motion and rest Greek philosophy" to trace this one idea.

Just regarding the horses, the related verse from Matthew 6:24 states the two masters are God and mammon which sounds pretty sensible to me: "No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

On the Brink of the Apocalypse

Being is the Dharmakaya but Being is not a being. The ordinary being-ness of all the beings is the being-ness of Being, which is the manifestation of the singular being-ness of Being which is no thingness from which everything and anything arises. ~ Rudolph Bauer

I came across this today of the woman who was held captive and had her arm broken, talking about her experience with Bomjon (Buddha boy) and his sangha.

I just tried to change my avatar photo but there doesn't seem to be an option to do this yet?

Reading this article Suicide attacks and Islamic law by an Islamic Professor of Law from an Islamic university it does seem that Islamic terrorism is unlawful according to the koran and sharia law. If the conclusions that this article comes to are correct, it is reasonable to distinguish between Islamic terrorism and Islam, and to imagine that better Islamic education for all young muslims might be part of the solution to the problem.

The Jing and Qi are like water in a fishbowl (the body), the spirit is like the fish. The better the quality of the water, the healthier the fish. – Master Chen

It seems highly likely to me that the goal of Satsang philosophy is actually an intermediate spiritual state, similar to the states Sri Aurobindo refers to in his essay "The Intermediate Zone" (below) - a dangerous and misleading transitional spiritual state between the ordinary consciousness and true spiritual realisation. Some of the nondualist/neo-advaitan self-professed awakened teachers are starting to say as much themselves, that the Satsang awakening is just the start: "All these experiences are of the same nature and what applies to one applies to another. Apart from some experiences of a personal character, the rest are either idea-truths, such as pour down into the consciousness from above when one gets into touch with certain planes of being, or strong formations from the larger mental and vital worlds which, when one is directly open to these worlds, rush in and want to use the sadhak for their fulfilment. These things, when they pour down or come in, present themselves with a great force, a vivid sense of inspiration or illumination, much sensation of light and joy, an impression of widening and power. The sadhak feels himself freed from the normal limits, projected into a wonderful new world of experience, filled and enlarged and exalted;what comes associates itself, besides, with his aspirations, ambitions, notions of spiritual fulfilment and yogic siddhi; it is represented even as itself that realisation and fulfilment. Very easily he is carried away by the splendour and the rush, and thinks that he has realised more than he has truly done, something final or at least something sovereignly true. At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether. It is only when he is able to draw back (whether at once or after a time) from his experiences, stand above them with the dispassionate witness consciousness, observe their real nature, limitations, composition, mixture that he can proceed on his way towards a real freedom and a higher, larger and truer siddhi. At each step this has to be done. For whatever comes in this way to the sadhak of this yoga, whether it be from overmind or Intuition or Illumined Mind or some exalted Life Plane or from all these together, it is not definitive and final; it is not the supreme Truth in which he can rest, but only a stage. And yet these stages have to be passed through, for the supramental or the Supreme Truth cannot be reached in one bound or even in many bounds; one has to pursue a calm patient steady progress through many intervening stages without getting bound or attached to their lesser Truth or Light or Power or Ananda. This is in fact an intermediary state, a zone of transition between the ordinary consciousness in mind and the true yoga knowledge. One may cross without hurt through it, perceiving at once or at an early stage its real nature and refusing to be detained by its half-lights and tempting but imperfect and often mixed and misleading experiences; one may go astray in it, follow false voices and mendacious guidance, and that ends in a spiritual disaster; or one may take up one’s abode in this intermediate zone, care to go no farther and build there some half-truth which one takes for the whole truth or become the instrument of the powers of these transitional planes, - that is what happens to many sadhaks and yogis. ...For this intermediate zone is a region of half-truths - and that by itself would not matter, for there is no complete truth below the supermind; but the half-truth here is often so partial or else ambiguous in its application that it leaves a wide field for confusion, delusion and error. The sadhak thinks that he is no longer in the old small consciousness at all, because he feels in contact with something larger or more powerful, and yet the old consciousness is still there, not really abolished. He feels the control or influence of some Power, Being or Force greater than himself, aspires to be its instrument and thinks he has got rid of ego; but this delusion of egolessness often covers an exaggerated ego. Ideas seize upon him and drive his mind which are only partially true and by over-confident misapplication are turned into falsehoods; this vitiates the movements of the consciousness and opens the door to delusion. Suggestions are made, sometimes of a romantic character, which flatter the importance of the sadhak or are agreeable to his wishes and he accepts them without examination or discriminating control. Even what is true, is so exalted or extended beyond its true pitch and limit and measure that it becomes the parent of error. This is a zone which many sadhaks have to cross, in which many wander for a long time and out of which a great many never emerge. Especially if their sadhana is mainly in the mental and vital, they have to meet here many difficulties and much danger; only those who follow scrupulously a strict guidance or have the psychic being prominent in their nature pass easily as if on a sure and clearly marked road across this intermediate region. A central sincerity, a fundamental humility also save from much danger and trouble. One can then pass quickly beyond into a clearer Light where if there is still much mixture, incertitude and struggle, yet the orientation is towards the cosmic Truth and not to a half-illumined prolongation of Maya and ignorance." http://kheper.net/topics/Aurobindo/intermediate_zone.htm

More from Tony Parsons: In the meetings, one of the questions I keep getting is: “So what you’re saying is that I can’t do anything, and that I have no responsibility?”. And I keep on repeating: no, I’m not saying you can’t do anything, because that would imply that there’s someone who can’t do anything. But the reality is: there is no one. That is something totally different. Lots of so-called Advaita people just hate this message. They keep coming back to the argument that what I’m saying promotes laziness, that it’s a terrible, awful thing to say. They don’t comprehend what’s basically, fundamentally being said, and that is that there is no choice, there is no free will. There is no one. They totally and utterly still believe in the reality of individual choice. For them to hear that there is no one….it’s impossible for them to hear that. So they’ll go on arguing in duality. On the other hand: I know of people who have come once and seen it totally. Others come to the meetings a few times, and then the whole idea of individuality simply disappears. It falls apart. Awakenings are happening all over the place at this time. And what people say is that when it happens, they realize that it’s absolutely natural and ordinary. No big deal, in a sense. In another way, it’s absolutely wonderful.

Many people have had temporary glimpses of the Self. Sometimes it happens spontaneously, and it is not uncommon for it to happen in the presence of a realised Master. After these temporary glimpses, the experience goes away because there are still thoughts and latent desires which have not been extinguished. The Self will only accept, consume and totally destroy a mind that is totally free from vasanas. (Papaji in Nothing Ever Happened, vol. 3, p. 405) http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43425-effort-vs-no-effort/#entry737903

Essays from both camps on the differences between and the value of traditional Advaita versus Neo-Advaita/the Western Satsang movement: http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/trad_neo/trad_neo.htm