alchemist

 

One more pointless post. You better finally admit your fault about not knowing basic Patriarch's words about necessity of a True Teacher 

 

Yes, he made lot of faults: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42734-checking-the-checkers

Again a funny attempt to hide from answering..

It is an easy question.

 

...

 

Give up the feeling of hostility, so the communitarian start.

 

This is a very very basic concept.

 

Everyone should know that, even a child.

 

....

 

Is that so difficult for you?

Why it is so difficult to answer "an easy question" and "give up the feeling of hostility" first?

In another topic my message was deleted by "Taoist Texts", so any "communitarian" cannot be possible... You're speaking about manners, however Astral Monk was obviously honest and open.

All these just looks rude and like the only goal is to escape answering easy questions.

Do you teach your students the same way? Instead of telling them what is houtian bagua, you lecture them on manners? This way it's hard to keep any students.

It is impossible to turn Post-chi into pre-heaven chi.

 

Post-chi clean our body from outside to inside.

 

And then the middle Mai will open by itself.

 

After middle Mai is opened, we can get into emptiness.

 

In the emptiness, pre-heaven chi comes by itself.

 

The pre-heaven chi will change by itself.

 

We do not need to do anything.

 

If we "want" to do anything, the ego-Shen will wake up.

 

Then we will leave the emptiness.

 

Because ego-Shen belongs to Ying.

 

If ego-Shen wake up, Ying chi appears by itself.

 

If Ying chi show up, middle mail close by itself.

 

Some people see many kinds of light by using methods.

 

They think these lights belongs to pre-heaven chi.

 

But it is not.

 

I have seen all these two different lights.

 

They are different very much.

 

But it is very difficult to tell the one who has never seen both before.

 

They will misunderstand badly.

 

So the only way I can do is teach them how to open the emptiness by themselves.

 

And they can see both by themselves.

 

If they see both by themselves, they will know what is the difference between pre-heaven chi and post-heaven chi.

That's completely irrelevant to the current discussion. Have you even read it?

I know what you mean now.

 

But it is still not because of cultivating.

 

It is because of 悟 wu-Wei.

 

But I do not know how to translate 悟

 

You have to 悟 the way of wu-Wei.

 

And then you cultivate in wu-Wei, you live in wu-Wei life style.

 

All your things include politics run in wu-Wei.

 

The methods of breathe will not make you have the result of de.

 

 

You misunderstand dao de Jin so much.

 

You have to live in dao de Jin for many years.

 

All your decisions related to the choice of your life must be in dao de Jin.

 

Then you just can claim that you understand dao de Jin.

 

Or you just a reader.

 

You read a book and share your thoughts, but you do not let the concepts go into your real daily life.

 

What I told you is a teacher's teaching.

 

But you do not have a attitude of a good student.

 

大道廢，有仁義

 

故失道而後德，失德而後仁，失仁而後義，失義而後禮。

 

The way people ask questions here lose everything, just a little bit of manners left.

Too many claims and no single answer. If you are a teacher, could you please answer a question about houtian bagua?

And it will open the most important entrance - 玄關一竅

So if you opened it, could you please tell us where is it located?

So take your wlp elsewhere, start your own forums.

So you are speaking for the whole forum having written 49 posts here?   And you tell us that we have a superiority complex 

Text I cited is the beginning of Daozang evidence to necessity of having a Teacher (#1 of so far 7 items).

Should be quite obvious for anyone interested in neidan. All Patriarchs state that one needs a Teacher.

Though I fear the punishment is not severe enough.

Ooo you guys seem like opendao's classmates. Make sure to give him a good whipping! Haha

Nah unfortunately not, so not familiar with how students are disciplined. Like number of lashes etc.

And it would also be an opportunity for me to personally discipline your student.

Mr A.A Khokhlov, your student has been very naughty. He needs a stern lecturing *cracks whip*

really weird to see such posts on a Daoist forum. It shows very clear who is behind them.

Sorry, I didn't mean to harm anybody by word or anything. Peanut is just word for beginner, if somebody feel touched or anything I agree to take consequences. My English is not native so sometimes it can sound or feel like I'm getting "buzzy" or "angry" or something but it's not about it. I will just change my words to beginner. 

Okay. I've carefully read the moderators log about what is treated as insults for opendao case, so let's keep the same rules anywhere and for anyone.

That's why pointed him out that he is just a peanut in Wu Liu Pai, there is big gap between those high level Wu Liu Pai people and peanuts who got hyped up with results of their shengong. Like you got results it's fine but the moment some people got results start bashing other people burning their bridge to true cultivation. 

 

Anybody who says Xiao Yao Pai is fake school means he is just fake and attached to small things, letting go small things open space to big things. Anybody who even cultivate qigong can sense what going on effilang video. 

I reported about your insults here. OpenDao will reply, if he finds it necessary, when he will be able to do it. So far you can think who his words were addressed to. But they understood him already, so I see no point to continue.

What you wrote about Wu-Liu Pai we are going to comment later as well.

And your attitude really contrasts with the attitude of Effilang, I hope he doesn't like such bold advertising too.

So basically you are saying that 'your' founder is lying. Ok, no probs.

Does "Taoist Texts" also consider all Daoist Patriarchs, who wrote in Daozang about the necessity of a Teacher, to be liars?

I feel very bad energy

 

A blind mind

 

Very badly blind

 

How poor

Ah, I wonder how can anyone take seriously someone who mumbles this kind of delirious mumbo jumbo.

I only tell the true.

The truth is, you know nothing about neidan and Wuliupai methods in particular, and even can't understand what's actually written in Wuliupai texts.

How do you think what is written here about 意?

Alchemist, thanks.

 

The reincarnation cycle sounds very long and chaotic that way... Many lifetimes, most lived not as a human, and even in the lives as a human, the chances are very low to be an adept, and even then how many of the adepts would actually reach immortality?

 

There must be a sort of order to it, no? Maybe in the building of virtue over time so that a person can have a better and better life with better environmental conditions/good destiny etc to lead to high attainment?

 

opendao said this:

 

 

So would it not be held that ALL people who don't practice complete methods for xing and ming to fruition are in a more or less not going anywhere, and will probably just die and become ghosts?

I understand that this question is important for you (and everyone else), but as I said, neidan systems don't give a clear answer.

In theory, yes, you can improve your fate from one incarnation to another. But neidan systems don't give any recommendations on how to achieve this. You probably can try following Buddhist recommendations, since Buddhism has much better developed system of improving your incarnation conditions.

BR

Hi Bluemind,

Basically, neidan systems only say that an ordinary man becomes a ‘gui’ (ghost). Everything else (i.e. what happens with guis, etc) is beyond the sphere of interest of neidan, since its ultimate goal is to prevent this scenario.

But Daoism in the wide sense shares more or less the same views as Buddhism on this question. I.e. the soul is caught into the death/rebirth cycle, having in mind that chances to reborn in the lower spheres are much higher than to become a human again.

BR

 

Does this soft explanation of yuan qi sound acceptable to WLP people? I'm not sure what the body dissolving means though. Transition to light body maybe.

Hi Bluemind,

I wouldn't like to discuss the opinion that was not originally posted in this topic. So I can only say that in the quote above, there are things that correspond to WLP theory, and things that do not.

BR

Thank you, it's used as a stage of achievement?

 

Which chapter can I find it?

You can read the text here: http://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=en&chapter=60761

BR,

alchemist

A baidu page, OK.

 

Can you tell me where I can see it in Daoist Alchemical scriptures? Or who used the term?

 

Zhongliquan definitely didn't use it in chapter 1 on Xians.

For example, it is used in Huimingjing.

BR,

alchemist

Not all correct, 金仙 is from fairytale, there is no achievement of Golden Xian in Daoist scriptures.

This term does exist in Daoism:

http://baike.baidu.com/subview/643591/15406166.htm

It is not as widespread as guixian, renxian, etc, and Its meaning may be ambigous, but still it exists.

BR,

alchemist

(The original article by Dmitry Artemiev, translated from Russian.)

First of all, we need to understand that Chinese culture has its own ideas, sometimes fundamentally different from the concepts of the other cultures. Daoism, and especially alchemy of immortality in Chinese tradition, although is well-known nowadays, I dare say have not been studied at all. It is especially true for the most ancient period of Daoism and the so-called Shenxian teaching. This is not surprising, the same is almost universally true for China. In fact, immortality is not really the desire to leave memory for the descendants, and not the desire to live forever on earth (a physical immortality and longevity although considered possible, never were the supreme goal of Daoism), but it is a realization of the supreme freedom that exists in every human being, although men usually do not know about it. This is well described in Wuzhenpian. Thus, Daoism is not a philosophy, not a religion, but the way of freedom. Of course finding the true essence of Daoism is extremely difficult because of all the later developments and distortions, but even today there are people in China who preserve the tradition of Daoism in its most ancient form.

Daoist alchemy is the TEACHING of attaining UNITY. And not the physical one or the one of the mind (as nowadays the spirit is labeled), but attaining a particular state, THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE ACHIEVEMENT OF A HUMAN IN THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT. Immortality in Daoist alchemy is rather aimed at immortality of the spirit than physical immortality. In Daoist practice, there are certain stages that are characterized not by qigong phenomena, but rather by physiological changes and transformations (e.g. 人仙, 地仙, 神仙, 天仙, 金仙 and some others).

Not all schools of Daoism called the same levels by the same names. We especially need to emphasize that the Chinese spirit has nothing to do with the concept of the consciousness, and that is what the character 神 tells us about. Daoist alchemy, as we know, was formerly referred to as Neidan and Waidan (usually translated as inner and outer alchemy). The very character DAN represents a pot in which melting occurs. However, few people know (and the Daoists insist on that), that this teaching existed since the most ancient times, and it is known in China at least since Huangdi. This teaching is called HuangLaoXue i.e. the teaching Huangdi and Laozi. It also has other names. The precise terms Neidan and Waidan appeared much later, in the beginning of Current Era. In fact, only Waidan could be called alchemy as the methods of the external elixir melting. Inner alchemy (which in scientific circles is considered derived from the outer one), held in the tradition a much higher and ancient status. It is called alchemy more because of the custom than meaning.

Let's examine the classification in more details:

1. Ghostly immortal or ghost immortal - Guǐxiān (鬼仙).

Gui Xian. Literally - the immortal of devils, devil immortal. This achievement was considered to be typical for the shamanic practices, the late Chan Buddhism, pseudo-Daoism, various meditative practices. Yin spirit leaves the body while its non-breathing and without heartbeat. Practitioner remains an ordinary mortal, despite the practice of soul leaving and possible acquiring of some abilities. Moreover, it is possible that after the death the practitioner would never be reborn, remaining a ghost forever. This practice is not a Daoist one and it was forbidden (serious practicing, not just jingzuo).

2. Human immortal or immortal among people Rénxiān (人仙)

Actually not really an immortal. Moreover, each person passes this period in his or her life. It is an age of majority, peak of physiological prosperity. This is the very period when people are in their most exalted state (full and active). If one starts to practice alchemy in this period, it is possible to complete the second stage of Earth immortal very quickly. If time has passed and the energy is wasted, old age and infirmity came, then it would be necessary to bring the body back to this physiological level. Otherwise, it is impossible to proceed. Thus we can see that it is still not true immortality, but only attaining of the state of the highest primordial energy, i.e. Ming.

3. Earth Immortal - Dìxiān (地仙):

This is what is commonly called immortality: immortality of the physical body on the Earth. But such a body, although may dwell forever on the Earth, can be destroyed by external damage. Therefore, such an achievement is not considered as a high one, and all practitioners sought to advance further, consider it as only an intermediate step. It should be noted that this achievement is the goal and the ultimate attainment of outer alchemy. Both at the previous and at this stage it is possible to develop various abilities of the level, but it is not the main path, but rather a side road. At this stage, Ming unites with Xing, and thus immortality becomes possible. Thats like a perpetual thermonuclear engine in ones own body on the Earth emerges. Thats where the abilities come from. Starting from this stage, the achievements are irreversible in terms of the inverse transformation (with the exception of Rénxiān who could easily become an ordinary person again, having spent Ming). But if, because of external conditions the practice is not completed or if the body is destroyed, one may have to go back to the previous level.

4. Spirit Immortal - Shénxiān (神仙)

Spiritual embryo or Yangshen goes out of the head (born in the spiritual world), and it still needs to be nurtured and developed. This is similar to a mother (body) taking care of a child (spirit). When it becomes strong and this stage is completed the spirit can move anywhere in the Universe first to learn its structure and subsequently to perform spiritual work. It is no longer possible to kill him, he is immortal. But there is still body that requires attention. At a certain stage of development yang spirit Yangshen acquires the ability to multiply, reproducing itself. It can gradually grow to a huge number. They can perform a variety of spiritual work in different worlds. This is the very moment when complete understanding of the Universe and its laws comes as well as the meaning of further development. If the practitioner wishes, this phase can be prolonged for a very long time. For example, one can dwell in a cave for thousands of years and practice in spiritual bodies.

5. Celestial Immortal - Tiānxiān (天仙)

The previous stage can already be prolonged to last forever. But the immortal spirit has still non-transformed body. Therefore, there is still an opportunity to continue to the highest stage, which, according to alchemy is possible on Earth - the transformation of the body into the body of light. This is the most difficult task, as it requires 9 to 10 years of immobility. It should be safeguarded by faithful disciples and followers, the Teacher, or by concealment, immured in a cave in accordance with certain rules.

After its completion the body and the spirit merge together in the "body" of light and when the person who attained this level leaves the world nothing is left (except for remaining possessions as with Boddhidharmas shoe). If for some reason, the practitioner does not reach the highest stage, it may either willingly or been forced by circumstances "get rid of the corpse." Depending on the level attained, his remained body may not be susceptible to decay but self-mummify or even burn because of the inner fire.

This scheme is based on the studies of the classics on the one hand and the Teachers guidance on the other. However, we must remember that the purpose of such conciseness is to provide a general understanding of the process, while in practical terms, each stage has its own pitfalls, secrets and downfalls.

Ah yes ok, as I am not speaking Russian, can you tell me the equivalent in Daoist terms?

That may differ depending on the context. That's why I don't recommend to use this term.

BR

Hi Alchemist,

 

Can you explain what and when is stage of Святой архат?

 

Regards

This is a Buddhist term, so I do not recommend to use it when describing the stages of immortality in neidan. I know it is used sometimes, but still it is better to use well-known Daoist stages.

BR

Does anybody understand what is meant by a spiritual immortal doing spiritual work?

 

"spiritual body is then able to perform the execution of spiritual work"

Generally, yangshen travels across the universe on this stage.

BR

 

Ah OK this makes sense. My terminology is different, by combining Xing and MIng you are only referring to earth immortal. .

Yes, that is dixian (earth immortal) stage.

"It should be provided either by faithful pupils and adherents, The Teacher, or by concealment by having immured in a cave according to certain rules."

 

Do you understand this part, How can pupils and adherents help this stage? Maybe i misunderstand, but it almost sounds like the pupils are meditating for the master.

No, they are creating the right conditions for the Teacher's practice.

BR

Hello BR,

 

Can you explain how is it possible for someone to regrow teeth and hair, in general? The basic theory behind it.

 

Is it a result of long term practice, or something that can be achieved within a year?

 

Sincerely,

Demetrios

Hi Demetrios,

Ah, BR is for "best regards" It's not my initials.

The basic theory is as follows. A man/woman has a limited amount of yuan qi/yuan jing (also ming), which he/she constantly spends on the vital functions. Once the ming is over, he/she dies. Teeth and hair are related to ming, so when ming is filled up again, teeth and hair regrows.

BR