alchemist

The translated passage in the original post is not just a random selection amongst the vast corpus of Daoist writings. It is a well-known text containing a discussion between Lu Dongbin, generally recognized as the originator of extant alchemy schools all over China, and his master. The same admonitions seen there resurface in later writings and in oral teachings.

 

Its contents are considered very important amongst people whose affinity for internal alchemy teachings is great enough for them to have started to realize that qigong, martial arts neigong, and so forth are not the same thing as inner alchemy.

 

I do not know the original poster's reasons for posting. Whatever the reasons may be, the information is worthy of contemplation for all of us on this board. It reflects some of what you might hear in the rare chance that you get a chance to talk to an adept in China or even a person who's simply well-versed in neidan literature.

 

Also, Daoists have much respect for Zhuangzi's teachings, but the teachings are not invoked a la "whatever you do is right for you and nobody else can tell you what would work or doesn't," when it comes to practice instructions transmitted master to disciple.

Thank you for the comment, that's exactly what I am trying to tell.

BR

 

That's just silly.

Well, you can blame the Patriarchs of Daoism. Maybe they were not as smart as you are.

BR

 

You're avoiding the answer.

I am not. The true methods are never described openly. Zhongli Quan doesn't describe them. That is the answer to your question.

BR

Admitted that's an historic text your chap has translated but there are acres of those about.

'Historic text'? So you don’t know who Lu Dongbin and Zhongli Quan are, dear teacher of teachers? Well, I am not surprised.

As a Grandmaster ( a teacher of teachers by profession and persuasion) I've come to intuit that all paths tend towards success if followed diligently and with discipline.

That depends on what 'success' is in your understanding. Definitely, any path leads to some result, and you are free to call it a success. But these results may differ.

BR

Such a saying only shows how little the author's understanding of Taoist schools and their ways... :- )

Wuliupai is a known and respected school in the Daoist circles of China. So I wonder how much do you know about the Daoist schools and their ways.

BR

Would you please enlighten us on the "true methods" that you believe are effective?

In general, neidan (internal alchemy) is. In particular, the true methods are never described openly.

BR

I hate to say... " I told you so....." But ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are wrong, my dear British chum.

I don't know who damdao is, but he is definitely not from Wuliupai. Also, it looks like he is from Argentina, and I really doubt that Argentinians have 'Slavic mindset' (and I also doubt that the disciples of Lu Dongbin and Zhongli Quan had one). But definitely you can go on posting your thoughtful interpretations of the words of the famous Patriarchs of Daoism.

BR

It possibly suffers in translation but the overall tone of it tends towards triumphalism.

The translation (Russian-to-English) is not perfect, I do understand. But hope everyone understands what's written there.

Regarding triumphalism, my dear British chum. It's kind of funny to hear that from a guy who calls himself a grandmaster

But if only you read the text carefully, you might have noticed that this is a translation of the words of Lu Dongbin and Zhongli Quan. If you consider their words 'triumphalism' - well, good luck finding greater authorities in Daoism.

Finally, I don’t really think that discussing the personality of a topic starter instead of the text (which is a translation of the Daoist classics) is a good idea to start a conversation. At least, it is not an evidence of good manners.

BR

The Mo Pai school's method is not false and it is efficient.

These methods (and the others described in the text) can give some results, but not immortality. That is the difference.

BR

What methods does Zhongli Quan advise?

The true methods are never described in the texts, unlike the false ones.

BR

(Translated from Russian, original Chinese-to-Russian translation by D.A. Artemiev.)

 

Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan: "Why is Great Dao difficult to understand and realize?"

 

Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods of minor schools are considered efficient and widely spread among the laity; they are passed from one to another and until death the true awareness does not come; they subsequently become customary and discredit the Great Dao.

 

These are such methods as:

1. Fasting.

2. Starvation.

3. Gathering of qi.

4. Saliva swallowing.

5. Sexual abstinence.

6. Forgoing tastes.

7. Chan meditation.

8. Silence.

9. Awareness.

10. The Art of the inner chambers.

11. Inhaling much, exhaling little.

12. Maintaining purity.

13. Quieting (thoughts stopping).

14. Avoiding fatigue.

15. Opening of the heads crown.

16. Puckering genitals into ones body.

17. Symptoms disappearance.

18. Canons reading and recitation.

19. Outer alchemy.

20. Breathe restraining.

21. Dao Yin practices.

22. Tu Na gymnastics.

23. Gathering and replenishing.

24. Charity and donations.

25. Sacrifices.

26. Giving help.

27. Retreating into mountains.

28. Innate wisdom (analytical mind).

29. Immobility.

30. Formal maintaining of the teaching lineage.

 

Its not possible to fully recite all the minor schools and inconsistent methods. To the extent that (they):

 

Gather essence of sun and moon and accumulate Qi of Heaven and Earth.

Think endlessly, hoping to produce cinnabar.

Bend the body, exhausting it, trying to break free.

Inhale a lot, but exhale a little, in attempt to cure diseases, considering it a true embryonic breathing.

Halt thinking and forget the words, that correspond to nurturing the nature of xing, but this just points to cultivation of the true of qi contained in the Great Fundamental.

Practice the art of inner chambers, but this is just a lower cultivation method of the fate - ming.

Immobilize the body like a withered tree, and make the mind calm like cold ash - and this is a small art of spirit concentration.

What to do if in antiquity and today the men cultivating the Dao were trying hard and constantly care (only about it), but since the saliva was believed to be the cure, how was it possible to carry out the creation?

Thickening qi as the elixir is it possible to achieve its conservation? Considering liver to be a dragon, lungs to be a tiger how is it possible to unite them? Assuming Kan to be lead, and Li to be mercury is it possible to prolong the life? Based on the year seasons sought to cultivate yellow sprout.

Not letting intention to dissipate, coveted to find a Great cure.

Comparing years and matching months wasted days and got confused over time.

Without understanding Wu Xing basics how could they perceive the creation of three principles?

Acquired only a superficial and fooled the descendants. This led for the Great Dao to become disregarded over the time; (they) rose and become a custom of heresy and false teaching. In this way the original meaning of the ancient Masters was lost.

 

Exactly because of Dao were listening empty jabber and superficial teachings; pointed followers, who understood nothing, to them as secret methods of practice; passed each other forms of instruction and interpretations, but in due time decent into the netherworld, causing the hearts of men to numb with fear!

 

Under no circumstances wanted to cultivate and fulfill the Great Dao, outshone their contemporaries, only cared about the happiness and avoidance of failures, did not believe in innermost secrets and only multiplied the wealth and neglected their fate, thus heading to turn into devils (ghost)!

An anecdotal question (and in order to keep going the dialogue while waiting the texts), in reading the Huimingjing 慧命經 we found always references to Buddha (and Eva Wong point out to the Huayen School).

Is there some connection between the Wuliupai School today and Buddhism (be it in curricular texts or any other way)?

Hi damdao,

One of the founders of the School, Liu Huayang, was a Buddhist before becoming a Daoist. Also, there are a lot of references to the Buddhist concepts in the Wuliupai texts.

So there is a connection between Wuliupai and Buddhism.

BR

Thank you very much for your willingness to share translations from an orthodox lineage.

The English page, although not official is very interesting (quite instructive are the translations of dialogues between the Patriarch and some disciples); the Russian pages and forum too but more difficult to read.

We hope to read soon some texts soon.

Hi damdao,

Thank you for your interest. I will publish the first translation this week.

BR

hi Alchemist,

just curious, but are there any videos of this master?

Or new articles?

 

Does this school have retreats in China? If so when is the next one.

There are no videos, the School is not that open. That also applies to all kind of public retreats.

Regarding the articles: I will publish some in a few days.

BR

 

 

On another note,

 

 

 

I'm interested in the current Wuliupai "master", he must be very interesting! Anything to add?

 

Thanks. and your English is quite good.

Hi MooNiNite,

Thank you.

The current Patriarch of the School in China is the Teacher of the United Yang (Daoist name). I will publish the translations of some of his texts later.

The Master of the Russian branch of Wuliupai (the one I belong to) is Dmitry Alexandrovich Artemyev, my teacher and a disciple of the Teacher of the United Yang. He translated a lot of Chinese texts into Russian, and I will publish some of these texts translated into English.

BR

I would disagree!

I mean it is not a method in Wuliupai. There are practices that give quieting the mind as a result.

BR

i think the quote makes it clear they use quieting the mind as the method of cultivation. it's the only way to achieve "automatic" progress.

 

however i guess there is a possibility of me being wrong, not being a student...

 

 

the website info makes it look like dragon gate, minus the confucius aspects of DG

 

..nvm..this is exactly like dragon gate

Quieting the mind is a condition of cultivation, but not a method itself. It is a result of other methods.

Wuliupai is a descendant of Dragon gate, but its methods differ. That's because the Patriarchs of Wuliupai also belong to other (non-DG) lineages.

Also, it is worth noting that Wuliupai has no official website in English. The one you can find is semi-official, made by volunteers, and some part of the information there may be incorrect.

BR

I would also like to answer the post from another thread here:

Hi (fellow) Alchemist!

 

That surely sounds interesting what the Wikipedia article has to say about your system. I found the following quote particularly intriguing:

 

"A distinctive trait of the school is its postulated identity of Taoist principles with those of early Chan Buddhism."

 

This is reminiscent of certain writings by Alan Watts - even though he tended to look at early Eastern philosophies from the Zen perspective of spontaneous awakening and was not so interested in the more Taoist/Alchemical/Qigong approach that your school seems to follow. That said, I think that such distinctions are somewhat artificial and that the different outlooks are in truth rather complementing than contradicting each other. Hey, doesn't this sound quite Taoist?

 

Be that as it may, I am looking forward to further exchange.

 

Cheers,

Michael

In our school, it is considered that the principles of Daoism and early Chan are identical, but that does not apply to the latter period of Chan/Zen. There was a lot of traditions in the past that are based on the principles similar to the ones of Daoist alchemy, but there are much less of them today.

BR

I look forward to the translations!

Sure, just wait a bit.

BR

 

I have a couple of questions for you...

 

1) Are English speaking representatives from your school ever thinking about traveling to teach a little bit in the USA or Canada? I would love to learn the beginning practices (which I've read about on the website), and I'm sure many others here feel the same way.

 

2) Are the requirements for students of your school very strict? For instance, I've heard that students are expected to travel to China each year...and for many people that ends up being too expensive and time consuming to continue. Does the school accept people who are in college?

 

Thanks.

Hi Aethorous,

Thank you for the questions,

1) In fact, that is not in our nearest plans. I want to be understood correctly: my goal here is not to advertise the School, but only to give some information about the authentic tradition of Daoist alchemy, since there is a lot of pseudo-Daoist schools and teachers.

Anyway, besides that, I think that visiting USA or Canada can be discussed, but only if there is a lot of interested persons.

2) The requirements are very strict, but visiting China is not one of them at the moment. Learning is not that expensive, and we do accept people who are in college.

BR

Thank you for being here.

 

From the wuliupai website:

 

 

 

I think this is an indication that the method of the school is an high level one, and I imagine that it probably involves some secret posture and the ch'an way of dealing with the mind.

Am I correct?

Hi DAO rain TAO,

Thank you for the question.

This is a basic method of our school, but it is a high level one in comparison to the post-heaven practices like qigong.

It doesn't use postures and mind, that's the difference between pre-heaven and post-heaven methods.

BR

Hi all,

I am a disciple of a Daoist school Wuliupai, and I would like to introduce the TTB members to the main principles of the School.

Here is a short quote from a Wikipedia article:

 

> The school's doctrine is related in the works of the school's founders: "Common Teachings of Immortals and Buddhas" and "True Principles of Heavenly Immortality" by Wu Chongxu; and also in "Book of Understanding Life" and "Confirmatory Teachings of Golden Immortals" by Liu Huayang. The school puts its main emphasis on the practice of internal alchemy, in order to realise Tao, thus achieving a status of "an immortal and a buddha". A distinctive trait of the school is its postulated identity of Taoist principles with those of early Chan Buddhism. As E. A. Torchinov noted in the foreword to his translation of Zhang Bo-duan's "Chapters of Understanding Life", "With time the immortals came to be regarded as taoist counterparts of Buddhas, which have led to creation of syncretical schools (albeit dominated by Taoism) of Immortals and Buddhas (xianfo) in 16th-17th centuries; in these schools tenets of Buddhist doctrine were only perceived through the lens of taoist tradition."

 

The whole article can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuliupai

In this topic, I will be glad to answer any questions about the School you may have.

Later I am planning to give some translations of the classics of the School and some notable Daoist texts.

BR

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your interest. I will answer you in detail a bit later, in a separate topic.

BR

Hello,

I am from Russia, and I am a disciple of a Daoist school Wuliupai (here you can read a bit more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuliupai).

Here I am planning to give some info about the School, its main principles, and also publish some translations of the classics that are either written by the Patriarchs of the School, or other famous Patriarchs of Daoism and inner alchemy (neidan).

Also, I am always glad to answer any questions.