Michael Sternbach

I am tempted to ask you your thoughts on the connection between Egypt and China but time is short and I'd like to stay on point. Another day, i hope!

I recall that Joseph Needham mentions remarkable parallels between alchemy in Hellenistic Egypt and China somewhere in his "Science and Civilisation in Ancient China" series. Alas, I can't look it up at present.

I should not say that I am without a physical teacher. I do have a mentor right now (who is very skilled and which the One Mind led me to) and have had others in the past who have graciously helped me get as far as I was capable of going at the time.

 

It is only recently that the path (beyond personal integration) has become clear for me. You may be right about the One Mind leading the student to the teacher and I am open to that experience, however it is not exactly straightforward. How does one know when they have found a qualified teacher who really knows how to manifest the soul body? And to make this even more difficult, where do we begin to look for such a teacher grounded in the western tradition?

Rare indeed. But surely, the most perfect teacher abides inside you.

A parting thought - in western alchemy, it is said that there are many who were said to have attained the first attainment of the Philosopher's Stone through books, prayer, and study. But to be fair, I have also read that there are none who have gone beyond that stage without a teacher.

Rare that you see steps beyond finding the Philosopher's Stone mentioned at all. With very few exceptions, it's considered to be the highest attainment already.

First off, The Secret of the Golden Flower is a well reputed classical text of Neigong studied by C. G. Jung and other great researchers of consciousness. It is a method for performing the Great Circulation and resembles in some ways Japanese zazen (sitting meditation) which could indeed be seen as a simplified version of the latter.

However, the process of trying to look backwards into the seat of consciousness was incredibly difficult for me! For twenty years, I have noticed how my consciousness seems to emanate from the pineal gland... but never once have I tried to study it (genius!) When I did so, I found myself struggling to find it... my inner vision was looking ahead of the point, then behind it, and then it seemed like I was watching myself watching myself (as if I was overlaid on top of me, if that makes any sense). I don't think I got anywhere with the ears.

Well, that surely doesn't sound like a bad going to me, especially for the first try!

Then with all my might I tried to turn my inner vision backwards and struggled with muscular tension in the head. But then for a few seconds, it seemed like my awareness was kind of like a sphere and I was looking in.

Don't force anything. The sphere vision sounds really interesting, though. If you just let your awareness gently hover in the vicinity of the center, you will get there over time, I think, and without potentially damaging yourself. Impatience is among the greatest obstacles in internal and external alchemy. It spoils the work.

May joy be yours, too!

Michael

Hi 4bsolute,

Like every so often, there are indeed no absolutes in this question. But personally, I find it worth-wile to consider various outlooks.

With this in mind, I can recommend this article which is treating the western tradition of cheiromancy from the astrological/elemental perspective in some depth.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/cheiromancy.html

You may also want to take a look at a conversation I had with a Chinese lady not long ago about how the elements in the western tradition relate to the Chinese model especially regarding astrology. .

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=90736#90736

Best,

Michael

Weight training is a part of traditional Taiji and Xingyi in my school.

Interesting... I never before heard of Yang stylists doing weight training unless they were practising some external style as well. I'm not sure about Xingyi.

Xing yi and Taiji quan training:

1) weight - 12 kg

2) weight - 4 kg

 

1)

 

 

2)

Hi Vitalii, this looks interesting.

Are you holding those kettlebells in statical positions and postures or are you moving with them? No vids?

I've been learning from my Sifu for the past 12 years. When I got Master Liao's book first and read through it, it seemed all fine and dandy, but I couldn't figure out where the relevant sections of meditation and practice were towards developing jin (or jing as is termed in the book).

 

My teacher keeps no secrets. He told us the same things within the first 6 months, as he tells us now. But every time he says it (at various intervals of time), it makes different sense. When I first attempted to do condensing breathing, my mind couldn't even visualize how the qi needs to be condensed, because the meridians were all blocked and as a result the yi couldn't lead the qi.

 

But as practice unfolded over time and I softened up (relaxed/became more sung), things started to fall into place. Things that seemed to operate at a physical level earlier began to make sense from an energetic level.

 

Many beginners attempt to do condensing breathing by using muscular strength (tension and relaxation of the muscles), thinking they can "squeeze" the qi into the bone marrow. But that is a wrong approach. Once one is sensitive (as a corollary being relaxed enough), the qi becomes more tangible as a real energetic flow. Then the condensation becomes a feeling, a real palpable feeling. Then one can condense.

Dwai, thanks for your elaborate reply. Very interesting what you are saying here.

The first and foremost criterion for good tai chi is to let go of strength. As Lao Tzu says in the Tao Te Ching, the soft and pliable will always overcome the strong and inflexible. It is not just about psychology or about the natural world. That is the first and most important pre-requisite for Nei gong (and nei jia as a result), imho (and as I have understood the teachings).

I think the question of physical strength is a pretty complex one. To many people in the internal martial arts, it seems to imply stiffness and inflexibility. Yes, there are bulked up folks like that. As much as there are many artistic gymnastics etc. well trained strenght-wise but as flexible as a rubber. The question generally lies more in the functionality of your muscle mass relative to the desired physical activity and how you are able to apply this functional strength - if you can do so relaxedly and with the proper body coordination. For that matter, I think internal martial arts strongly rely on body mechanics, and this is physical/physics.

Some internal practitioners say that the strength they're using comes not from the muscles but from the sinews. I do think this has a meaning even though it's somewhat unintelligible to me right now, anatomically speaking.

So, I didn't have to clean toilets and wait on my teacher hand on foot. He freely shared with me and my brothers and sisters. Right from the beginning. He only began to make sense once I got out of my own way.

 

Everything has its own way (Dao). And to force a different way onto something that is naturally/inherently different will yield, well, some other result...

I see, learning by doing. I agree that ultimately it's the only way to go. It's a typically Asian approach to teaching, btw; "simply try to follow what I show you", not too many words made. I guess I simply like to know where I'm going so that I can choose my way more consciously.

I missed the question about "practical application of vibrating palm". There is more detail to what happens after condensing is done successfully. That is using the vibrations achieved via condensing to issue what is called short power, long power, cold power etc. The way the energy is vibrated results in a particular type of effect that will be caused in an opponent.

Still wondering though if somebody other than the Montaigue school explains these things in technical detail - while there is no doubt that the ability to perform them properly is a result of years of training.

Cheers,

Michael

I am of the same. My Tai Chi is for flexibility and body/mind coordination. (I do practice Two Sword Tai Chi but this requires strength in only the arms, wrists, and hands for holding the swords properly.

Marblehead,

I agree that you don't have to do physical strength training necessarily if all you want to get out of your Taiji training is flexibility and body/mind coordination. Many practitioners are not even aware of the "martial" in this martial art, or don't care about it. Personally, I would feel that I'm missing out something essential. But all of that is another story, really.

I was doing Aikido for a number of years. As most of you may know, this is a Japanese internal art. It actually has some similarities with Bagua. A lot of the art is based on proper application of physics and yes, Ki but some degree of muscular strength is of advantage, nonetheless.

I practice Temple Style Tai Chi as taught by Master Waysun Liao. I study with his direct student of 30+ years.

The is some material in Master Liao's book titled "T'ai Chi Classics".

Hi Dwai,

In that book there are some interesting explanations of basic principles of the various kinds of power explained as well as some probably useful preparatory exercises. I didn't find anything detailed as for practical techniques, however. Does anybody reading this know a practically useful explanation of the vibrating palm, for instance?

U c, what I like about Erle Montaigue is that he was actually precisely demonstrating a lot of techniques. None of this "we will only teach you our real secrets once you have been washing the toilet and standing in the horse stance three hours a day for ten years and thus shown your loyalty to us" kind of stuff.

Thanks for the feedback. I tend to switch back and forth between kettlebell training and bodyweight. As they seem to develop different systems of strength. My first love was Aikido(Japanese internal martial art) but after several knee surgeries years ago just can't risk the wear and tear/trauma to the knee from that MA anymore.

 

What are your favorite exercises? For myself, kettlebell swings and hindu(bodyweight) squats have yielded the most bang for the buck.

The main problem with Aikido in this regard being the typical posture with the front foot turned out, especially when practising irmi-tenkan, imo.

If you have to go really easy on some of your joints, you may want to use isometrics (no, no, DON'T confuse with plyometrics - jumping squats and stuff like that! Would probably mostly benefit your surgeon).

Earle Montaigue's Fa Jin is not good enough.

in fact it is a kind of external kungfu style (Wai Jia)

Thanks for the Chuo Jiao video - for my taste, too much sloppiness and hopping, though.

Erle Montaigue was doing mostly Old Yang style Taiji with all the components of an internal style or Nei Jia (including Qigong) - it has nothing to do with Wai Jia.

Nice Fa Jin demonstration by his son Eli

in my late teens through early twenties I did hard karate - goju Ryu. We did mainly free hand training - hundreds of push ups, squats, Russian sit-ups, barrel walks, etc. and that was just warm ups. Then we'd do drills - punches, kicks, blocks, chops etc, then free sparring. I didn't find any thing more intense than that. In the prime, my 200+ lb friend would push me full on and bounce back. I weighed a puny 150 lbs...

None of this involved weight training. In fact my sensei would tell us to avoid weights because bulked up muscles slow our reflexes down. With internal arts it's even more critical, IMHO. If you are building up strength you are losing qi sensitivity.

I was undergoing the kind of training you are describing in my Kyokushinkai and Shotokan years. Yes, it contributed to my overall fitness. But it was not before I took doing weight training that my techniques really started to rock.

If scientific weight training would slow one's reflexes down, why would top athletes in virtually all sports do it? Most of all, why would top martial artists like Bruce Lee join them? This kind of training should be augmented with exercises for speed, flexibility, endurance, no doubt. If you experience that it makes you slower then you are doing something wrong, imho. You may be overtraining, or simply neglecting your MA training.

Talking specifically about weight training benefits for internal martial artists, I think that depends on your goals. If you are doing Taiji as a health exercise/meditation/movement art (which most practitioners seem to be satisfied with), then maybe you don't need anything else. If you are interested in the martial aspects as well, training with weights and other exercises would be recommendable.

Probably the most comprehensive book on the topic I have ever seen is Xtreme Training: The Fighter's Ultimate Fitness Manual by Randy Couture. Lots of great flexibility, speed, endurance, and strength exercises (with and without weights) to be found there.

I also recommend Lilly Chou's books The Martial Artist's Book of Yoga, and The Anatomy of Martial Arts.

Dwai, btw, I have just found my copy of the Taiji Classics! I will probably post some comments on the Fa Jin thread shortly.

Michael

I tried doing strength training but found that it affects my energetic sensitivity and softness, which are paramount in Taiji Quan.

 

But I feel the need to do stretching beyond the realm of typical tai chi practice, and the tai chi sword form we do is good with that, being more "physically demanding" than empty hand forms. The Jian is around 8 lbs and so being able to hold it up for a 20 minute practice session is somewhat exerting (which moving it in any which way as is typical of the sword forms). And then to switch sides and do it with other hand (so we do both left and right hand forms). That being said I haven't done the sword form at all this summer and winters in the midwest are a bane for any outdoor activities. Hopefully i'll get a few weeks of continuous sword form practice before it gets too cold this year...

 

Also, I think I'm going to resume the yoga surya namaskar regimen (sun salutation) which involves lots of stretching and isometric strength training) and doing continuous repetitions of it (with less than 1 minute break between each set builds both strength and stamina) will do the trick, imho, without bulking up and impairing chi sensitivity that muscle building does.

Personally, I find reasonable weight training to be a good supplement to my Taiji training. Surely, it's a little heavier on the physical side but I don't think it's detrimental to my Chi. Overall fitness will actually enhance your Chi.

I like to visualize Chi flowing through my limbs and body when lifting weights. According to Jwing Ming Yang, it could be called Hard Qigong. If you like to think of yourself as a powerful martial artist but you have muscles like Mickey Mouse, you are probably fooling yourself.

However, build up slowly when endeavouring to regain (supersede?) your old form. If you are in your 40s and rush back to the same heavy weights you were lifting in your 20s years, it probably won't do you any good.

Body weight exercises are useful, too. They won't increase muscle strength as much as weight training but they are good for your overall fitness in several ways. It might be best to intermix the two. Kettlebells are interesting, too; I haven't worked out with them so far but I am planning to try them out.

Yup, BG was refreshingly addictive, as Homer Simpson would put it. I loved Caprica and can only guess how the males reacted -- the sexiest character ever. Reminded me of "real" stars, European legends of the older movies.

 

As for acting, I was barely tolerating Adama-senior, he's supposed to be strength and courage incarnate and he's such a drama queen, every time things get rough he starts out by throwing a tantrum. One too many for my taste. Or ten.

 

Loved the astrological twist of the plot. The Twelve Colonies! Far out!

Regarding Adama-senior, I don't quite agree. He convinced me as an extremely confident Commander. I think he really climaxed when he defied Admiral Caine and launched his Vipers to get two of his men out who were imprisoned on the Pegasus and sentenced to death because they had killed one of her officers in defence of a Cylon girl. The two fleets squaring off, with totally confused Starbuck bumping into the scene... That was awesome!

Ok, his temper could be a nuisance at times. "I'm so human - it's okay - for me to - feel this way..." (Song by Lady Souvereign)

Loved the astrological touch, too. The "map" of the twelve constellations showing them the way to Earth... A nice spin-off from the twelve colonies idea that was already in the original series.

Where the frak did I leave those DVD boxes?! I think I will look for them now...

I'm not saying anything for certain... I think you're right that the planet being alive is the very reason we are here. Life was destined to form. But just for the sake of it? Again that brings me back to the analogy of our bodies. We're full of processes and vital components that we would die without...but we are not aware of them. That is to say the average person cannot control these processes at will and would never know they were going in at all, if we hadn't carved ourselves open for inspection.

 

Perhaps this destructive yet all giving Yin nature is inherent of Earth consciousness..and as we are under the influence of that consciousness, maybe this explains our seemingly wild existence.

 

Is there a correlation between our behaviour and processes of the Earth? It may appear that we are the cause, perhaps we are just mirroring something much greater.

From my perspective, the Earth is an Alchemical experiment. In fact, the entire Universe is. What will be the result? I don't know exactly. But I know that we are a vital part of that process. In fact, we are Alchemists helping to upgrade it All.

Also, Caprica with Eric Stolz... surprising depth of character and storylines for tv.

In BG, I found the chemistry between Number Six and Gaius Baltar amazing. I particularly liked the part where Baltar helps Number Six (or one of her "clones") to get out of Admiral Caine's torture chamber. I could understand the buddy all too well! Even though by giving her an atom bomb for blowing herself and numerous innocent people on board of one of the ships into stardust, he arguably took things a little far...

The cord phones on board of the Galactica and the jingling toasters are hilarious.

yeah, son of commander, a schmuck? I couldnt imagine

To call him a schmuck is a bit unfair. In the new series, he is more of an idealist thinker than case-hardened daddy but he does stand his ground.

Starbuck became a woman! Attractive but hardly less egocentric than in her previous incarnation. There are loads of hot and devious chicks in this series, btw...

All in all, I strongly agree with Silent Thunder's thoughts on BG. I, too, would highlight the complexity of the characters. The series treats many a real-world problem in thought provoking ways... Just when you think you know who the good guys and who the bad guys are, you find that things aren't nearly as simple as they seemed. Little zebra thinking here! Plus, action that takes your breath away. And yes, the series does have spiritual aspects.

Highly recommended to sci fi aficionados, especially of the New Age or Taoist variety.

Yes, there is an analogy between planets, humans, cells, atoms etc. They are all monads of some sort and share structural similarities - albeit expressed in various ways.

I'm not sure why some people think that we could not destroy our planet? True, we are hardly in a position to blow this massive ball of rock out of the universe, thanks God. But isn't Earth much more than a huge rock? Isn't her biosphere perhaps what Earth is really all about? I maintain: It is the most vital part of her existence! Our planet was destined to develop life right from the beginning... even life in the form of humans! Yes, we do make a big difference for the Earth, and potentially for the Universe at large.

I'm not sure why it should be one or the other? We're not talking about competing soccer teams here. Personally, I like Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica and all the others that have been named here as well as Dr. Who for TV series, and Titan A.E. for movies. And many others more.

 

" You will be able to go into any karate school and train there and maintain your grading and where the belt you have ... but if they come to train with us ... its back to white belt. "

 

" Now .... mwa ha ha har ... back to my evil plan of JKA world domination ! "

It was not before I had trained in a JKA dojo a number of years that I found out that "Traditional Shotokan Karate" is quite far removed from what Gichin Funakoshi and the Okinawans were doing. It's all right, if you want to do it as a sport. There are only a handful of maverick schools trying their best to reintegrate all the knowledge left behind when Okinawan Karate was introduced to the Japanese mainland.

But I observe this movement "back to the roots" in other martial arts as well, including Chinese styles. I think it's an interesting trend.

I think that both paradigms/labels have merit - storage and non-local.

We store fat, muscle, bone, and all of that has energetic potential and existence.

On the other hand, where is the separation between the "me" storing the fat and environment storing the me?

Is it my bag of skin? That is artificial...

And the fat "I" am "storing" changes minute to minute, day to day.

I am more a whirlpool than a swimming pool, no?

We are completely fluid and yet there is a relative stasis that is apparent, yet illusory...

I agree, both perspectives are valid. We are pearls in Indra's net reflecting each other. We are receivers as much as we are transmitters.

I achieved many things, much i cannot discuss. But I Spent years in astral space and it is strange and dangerous to even the most experienced in the arts, I have traveled to Distant worlds met strange creatures, waged wars across realms, shapeshifted into animal forms and used the aid of animal spirits. I have destroyed demons. Traveled through time, lost my mind and found it again. I've had my astral body trapped by strange people in a pit fighting arena. I have since Stopped Astral Projecting and now focus on perfecting my flesh and blood body through chi gong and my advice to you is if you are going to attempt to do these things, Be Extremely Careful what you look into and involve yourself in because often when you look for hidden knowledge something usually looks back and everything has a price.

Truly mysterious it sounds. Your path choose well you must. Yoda

according to the second law...hehehe....according to the second law, our calculations seem to be a bit off....theory does that when it gets too far ahead of experiment!

 

sudden eruptions...its all just angular momentum. they didnt know about frame dragging for quite a while too, so these subtleties of relatively unseen phenomenon wind up being the catalyst for that additional momentum that theory misses.

Setting up a computer simulation with some carefully chosen hypothetical parameters doesn't prove a thing. At best it's good for a working hypothesis. If not in outright opposition to Ockham's razor, sometimes.

heh, while they may both be a vortex of sorts, the phenomena is most certainly not congruent, despite the similarities that can be observed

I didn't say that Black Holes and human energy centres would be congruent, only that they may both be interdimensional gates or nexūs of some kind.

For that matter, they could arguably both be seen as singularities. For a hint, look up "Bindu (symbol)" in Wikipedia.

As magic becomes more scientific, science becomes more magical.

We draw in energy and store energy. The energy storing can very clearly be felt as an accumulation. It does only deplete if we participate in detrimental actions, such as arguing or being negative towards someone in any shape or form. Or, ejaculating as male.

Well, I would agree that arguing can be quite an energy drain - even though it can't always be helped. But I do have a problem seeing male ejaculation in the same category like arguing. Yes, I am aware of the Chinese theory about Chi loss in this regard. Maybe it's an issue for some males?

So in essence, we are not letting the energies freely flow through us and let it sustain the bodily functions as they should be to live healthyl 100years as possibly defined by gods natural program, stored in our DNA (figurative), we alter the course straight to Creation itself. We (re?-) create something in us..

True, we generally don't use our potential to the full as far as longevity (and quite everything else!) is concerned. This has a number of reasons. Mostly, our inappropriate thinking and blocked emotions are hindering us, along with the mental and physical environment that we have to exist in. Unhealthy life habits, environmental toxins, background radiation, all this will be detrimental to your life expectancy more than ejaculating too often. As modern research shows, an active sex life actually helps keeping you in good shape!

What else other than what we know that is a Black Hole can "store" energy? Nothing to my knowledge can ever effectively store energy, ever. Other than a Black Hole. Everything we have manufactured on this planet, does not properly store energy. Every battery loses energy over time, naturally.

Um, actually, Black Holes are losing the energy they have stored too, as they slowly evaporate over an admittedly long period of time - at the end of which they simply *pop*. At least that's the current mainstream theory upheld by physicists like Roger Penrose. But we are talking about a number of years expressed by a one with many zeroes here, so you may want to consider long-term investment in Black Holes. Your energy will be locked away really safely indefinitely, for all intents and purposes!

But frankly, what's the use of storing Chi (or money, or anything else) indefinitely, anyway. These things need to be released sometimes, and yes, they can be regenerated.

Forget everything you know from the media about BH's, since that information is completely misunderstood. BH's are an integral part of the Cosmos.

 

Are BH's birthing stars?

Interesting questions, 4bsolute!

It always struck me as odd that according to certain esoteric teachings there is a Central Sun right in the middle of our galaxy, a veritable Fountain Of Creation, the Origin Of All. Whereas modern science has it quite the opposite view: there is a monstrous Black Hole with four million times the mass of the Sun sitting there, lurking to swallow up the pitiful remainders of what once was shining stars...

However...

It's well known that there are light-years long jets of matter getting ejaculated, um, excuse me, ejected from Black Holes. The explanation being that a lot of the highly accelerated matter that is approaching the BH actually never makes it to the Event Horizon but takes off before (I would!) at mind-boggling velocities at right angles to the accretion disk along magnetic field lines. O.k., so far not much more than physics as usual.

But two very recent observations leave this simple model questionable, IMHO:

• The jets are leaving the BH with about three times the amount of energy that was contained in the accumulated matter to begin with. According to the 2nd law of thermodynamics no energy or matter can be created out of nowhere. So where does all the extra energy come from?
• Some Black Holes have been observed to occasionally spit out not only electrons (as was hitherto believed) but also ionized atomic nuclei of iron and nickel. Hey, that's building blocks for planets! Of course, orthodox scientists think that those atoms must have been already in the matter that accelerated toward the BH before, but again, that doesn't resolve the question where the energy for those sudden eruptions comes from.

Some stuff for you to ponder. References available on demand (study German, folks!).

Are we creating a Black Hole inside us, by cultivating in the Lower Tan Tien?

Well, yes, this could explain the unexplained disappearence of some spiritual seekers!

But seriously, your idea brings to mind another BH theory (currently a little less en vogue) according to which rotating BHs could be interdimensional gateways. And so are, in a way, our energy centres, to be sure. They can absorb, store, transform, and emit all kinds of subtle energies.