Taoist Texts

they paid all the money they had and got nowhere. thats ironic. probably.

thats all must be true but the insubstantiated claim was that the book is deficient regardless of any school.

so this must be a personal unsubstantiated opinion because the author says in the preface 今将所得于师及自己所曾经验者，尽情宣布。 Now， what I received from teachers and experienced myself, I publish sincerely and widely. http://www.xiulian.com/XMZHF/FJMZH/000qfxy.htm

Yes I totally agree that ZZ provides the backdrop for LZ, but not for a real LZ but rather for already mythologised LZ. The real LZ is explicated in Wen-zi http://thetaobums.com/topic/37307-5-daode-the-virtue-of-the-way/?p=602039 with the last line of this chapter being a military-political paradigm What is the will of Heaven or dao of Heaven? Well remember the bunch of commonsense folksy proverbs in part 1? they are there to demonstrate how the things work in this world, which is the dao of Heaven. The logic is 'all things are good in moderation so is aggressing and plundering'. Thats the dao. Of heaven.

What about the long protruding tongue.? there must be long protruding tongue there somewhere Wooden Guardian Figure Southern China Eastern Zhou Period (c.4th Century BC) Height: c.43.7 cm Figures like this were placed in tombs as guardians in the Chu state in Hanan and the Hubei province. The people who set these up venerated and feared a number of spirits. They used shamans to intercede and communicate with them. Wearing antlers seems to have been significant in shamanistic rituals. Carved figures with antlers probably represented the shamans or their powers. The antlers on this figure are made from dry lacquer and the figure has a long protruding tongue.

It is unless you support it with logical reasoning.

Morning a boy scout is a perfect analogy. Thank you. But you still make unsupported claims without answering the question 'why'. Now you know the question 'why' normally predicates one of 2 answers. 1. Argument from authority (Latin: argumentum ab auctoritate), also authoritative argument and appeal to authority, is a common form of argument which leads to a logical fallacy when misused.[1] E.g 'Lao-zi came to me in person and told me so" or 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning 'A taoist has to do good deeds because the moon is made from green cheese' Mingbai le ma?

That ione is for sure I have no clue;) But can i with all due respect ask one more time if thats not too much trouble... Why?

Chi Dragon i do hear you but the questions remain is it not what an ordinary person is doing? i work 9 to 5 and go home. whoo-hoo i am a taoist! why ? why would a taoist care one wit about the others and their feelings?

道德經9 《道德經》: 持而盈之，不如其已；揣而銳之，不可長保。金玉滿堂，莫之能守；富貴而驕，自遺其咎。功遂身退天之道。 《老子河上公章句·運夷》: 持而盈之，不如其已。揣而梲之，不可長保。金玉滿堂，莫之能守。富貴而驕，自遺其咎。功成、名遂、身退，天之道。 《郭店·老子甲》: 持而浧之，不不若已。揣而銳之，不可長保也。金玉浧室，莫能守也。貴福驕，自遺咎也。功遂身退，天之道也。 《馬王堆·老子甲道經》: 植而盈之，不□□□□□□之□之，□可長葆之。金玉盈室，莫之守也；貴富而驕，自遺咎也。功遂身芮天□□□。 《馬王堆·老子乙道經》: 植而盈之，不若其已；鍛而允之，不可長葆也。金玉盈室，莫之能守也；貴富而驕，自遺咎也。功遂身退，天之道也。 This is a two part essay 1. 持而盈之，不如其已；揣而銳之，不可長保。金玉滿堂，莫之能守；富貴而驕，自遺其咎。 2. 功遂身退天之道。 (1) is a collection of common sense proverbs on the benefits of moderation (2) is not quite clear 功遂身退天之道。 Or 功成、名遂、身退，天之道。 It is normally translated as “When the work is done, and one's name is becoming distinguished, to withdraw into obscurity is the way of Heaven.” Why would a nonchalant Taoist need to do any work, let alone have his name distinguished? What it is to withdraw? Why all of the above is the way of Heaven?

《下德》 老子曰：身處江海之上，心在魏闕之下，即重生，重生即輕利矣。猶不能自勝即從之，神無所害也，不能自勝而強不從，是謂重傷，重傷之人無壽類矣。故曰：{知和曰常，知常曰明，益生曰祥，心使氣曰強，}是謂玄同，用其光，復歸其明。 {Parallel to TTC 55} Lao-zi said: “the body is by the rivers and the sea, the heart is at the court of Wei” means to lead a double life, and to lead a double life means to neglect your own profit. If you can not overcome your desire to go (to the court) – then go so your spirit is not harmed; but if you can not overcome your desire to go and yet would not go – that would be called a double injury, those who have double injury are not longevous. Therefore it is said: {capability of harmony is constancy, benefiting life is a good omen, command the qi with heart is strength} all of it is called the Dark Unity, its usable brightness comes from returning to the bright spirits.

thats all good. i just feel that people curiously miss the point of this story and i was always interested where the blind spot is cognitively speaking.

hmm...cutting the entire carcass into small bits is not interfering? i donno about that.

you gonna enjoy this;) http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/nfile/2726

it is wise if you have the fountain. if you dont - that would be double injury. most people have no fountain. so being wise is first of all being realistic as to how unique you are.

孟子告齊宣王曰：「君之視臣如手足，則臣視君如腹心；君之視臣如犬馬，則臣視君如國人；君之視臣如土芥，則臣視君如寇讎。」 Mencius said to the king Xuan of Qi, 'When the prince regards his ministers as his hands and feet, his ministers regard their prince as their belly and heart; when he regards them as his dogs and horses, they regard him as another man; when he regards them as the ground or as grass, they regard him as a robber and an enemy. 《孟子 - Mengzi》 [Warring States (475 BC - 221 BC)] English translation: James Legge

《下德》 1 下德: 老子曰：治身，太上養神，其次養形，神清意平，百節皆寧，養生之本也，肥肌膚，充腹腸，供嗜欲，養生之末也。治國，太上養化，其次正法，民交讓爭處卑，財利爭受少，事力爭就勞，日化上而遷善，不知其所以然，治之本也，利賞而勸善，畏刑而不敢為非，法令正於上，百姓服於下，治之末也，上世養本，而下世事末。 Lao-zi said: to govern his body, the emperor nourishes his spirit first, then nourishes his body, if the spirit is pure and the intent calm – then the 100 joints will all be at peace, such is the root of nourishing life. But to fatten the flesh, to fill the belly and guts, to fulfill the desires – that is shallow nourishment of life. To govern his state, the emperor nourishes converting the people first, then nourishes the righteous laws, if the people yield to each other and compete for the lowest place, then there will little strife for money and profit, the subjects will compete in service, and will convert to the better day by day, without even knowing that it is so, such is the root of the governing. But to use profit and motivate to be good with it, to scare with punishment so nobody dares to do evil, to produce the decrees from above to make obedient the 100 families below, that is shallow governing. The ancients nourished the root, the descendants are busy with the shallow.

no problemo A. The chain of command is a pyramid king on top - masses below no day-light in between. B. De - De is a magical force that binds the nation together I believe i addressed that in the previous post

Your's is a correct approach - analysing this statement as a three part essay, yet you start with a wrong assumption reading an actor into the first part. There is no 'one should' there. 1. 不尚賢，使民不爭；不貴難得之貨，使民不為盜；不見可欲，使心不亂。 2. 是以聖人之治，虛其心，實其腹，弱其志，強其骨。 3. 常使民無知無欲。使夫1知者不敢為也。為無為，則無不治。 (1) is a statement of a fact of human nature: no cunning - no strife; no valuables - no thieving; no desirbles - no trouble. (2) is how to make it so (3) is the result 常使 'if constantly so' Remember the constant Dao in chpt 1? 為無為 act without action, lead by example. Or as Kongzi- said to the king above 季康子問政於孔子曰：「如殺無道，以就有道，何如？」孔子對曰：「子為政，焉用殺？子欲善，而民善矣. Ji Kang asked Confucius about government, saying, "What do you say to killing the unprincipled for the good of the principled?" Confucius replied, "Sir, in carrying on your government, why should you use killing at all? Let your evinced desires be for what is good, and the people will be good.

Excellent Dawei, excellent indeed. Yes it does. or as Kong-zi, the ever true taoist says: 季康子問政於孔子曰：「如殺無道，以就有道，何如？」孔子對曰：「子為政，焉用殺？子欲善，而民善矣。君子之德風，小人之德草。草上之風，必偃。 You want to be good, and the people will be good. King's De is wind and the peoples De is grass. Wind on the grass - the grass will bend with it. 《顏淵 - Yan Yuan》

'feeding people' is non-action? doesnt sound non-active to me classical interpreters dont know what they r talking about

well at this point i will just repeat that you got it exactly backwards and leave at that without argumentation since that would be OT here. We can reprise it in any chapter topic if you wish.

I dont think so, for that would be doing.

whose hearts and bellies? if his subjects - then how do the wise do it?

What is Shen Dao?