Yascra

C'mon, so what is he supposed to say?

Something that improves awareness and body-consciousness, instead of helping people to get more body-dead than they might have been before?

But well, I might be influenced too much by internal instead of outer MA.

Our MA teacher had a saying...

" Pain is just weakness leaving the body."

The general response from us students to that being...

" OUCH!".

 

Hm, not every teacher is a good person, right?

Hope you left that guy?

 

May my long-winded, twisting, winding words teach you patience Padawan!

Hey, you asked me to help you understand, not to answer your questions

 

So, I think I'd start with sort it another way:

I am hurting.

Oh, well, that's bad, change that if you did already reflect sufficiently to recognize it.

I am lost and confused, with no clear dream or purpose.

That's a good reason to be hurting, for if you lack a perspective anyway, you don't need to care about how to improve anything .. for there is no positive or negative future/perspective.. and that means that you don't need to care about the fact that actions result in consequences, and bad actions, aka hurting, in bad consequences.

I am lonely. In a physical sense I have nobody to share my life with, no friends, nowhere I fit.

Who would like to be friends with someone who harms others and still keeps going that way???

4. Tired of having to figure crap out on my own.

Well, that's one of those results you get if you don't behave in a beneficial way. People don't want to be friends with you, so you have to do things on your own. Cause and effect

1. I am offended that a guru would throw seekers out. I think it likely that I would suffer the same fate, were I to find a guru.

Actually, a guru is not only just a friend, but a friend who is hopefully willing and able to do a LOT more for you than anybody else, namely help you to reach liberation and end your suffering.

Let me put it this way: Why should a guru not throw a person out who can name the essential parts of the problem, but still not apply the wisdom on them to see that they might be connected?

5. I am asking for help to understand. Some way to be at peace with all I am feeling and going through.

Yes, and if someone offers you to help understand instead of just feeding the point I quoted first you call them a Padawan

 

Finally:

Being around this beautiful young woman, feeling electrified, yet having this inner knowing that she is not for me.

I really don't get what your sexual urges have to do with this whole thing, but maybe it's really not about finding a guru and spiritual liberation, but just having your desires fulfilled? Who knows ...

 

Btw... Still more than five sentences for every single point, and sometimes three different points mentioned, although just one number.

 

I propose you start that exercise again.

 

So, beginning with the cause, might you please name the essential points in five sentences

 

(No, are not forced to, don't worry And maybe better post them here after you've done that exercise in your private diary for a week or so. Btw, you are allowed to draw consequences from accidentally occuring conclusions ).

 

 

Good luck

We had business schedule during the first half, so I got just that 4 : 0 ... And most streets were empty in Germany, lol.

You are violating the copyright by posting this.

 

Actually that holds true for the quotes as well.

What parts?

 

Chapter VIII makes a cool start

May you put your core issue in five sentences, pleeease, if you can?

 

Hahaha, so it never was about discussing a question, but just about you thinking you're higher than that particular master and knowing better than anybody else?

 

The Zen master is deceptively trying to convince the student that pratyahara is realization of no self, which quite frankly is a pile of bullshit.

If you'd read his explanation carefully, this is what he does NOT claim. Actually I don't need to care about that guy too much, as he's not my teacher, but I'd say he's not doing a bad job there. The main point anyway is the message that the student has to go further.

 

But from both of your answers I'd conclude that reading carefully is not one of your major talents.

 

I think you have to define the specific meditation you are talking about

no. Any state of concentration affects your chi.

Any chi that flows is a wind, and all winds kick up dust.

no, real chi is not wind, and if somewhere there's no dust, there's nothing to be kicked up.

 

The effect of melting the body does not last long at all, it goes away as soon as the sense consciousnesses are

wow, you must have had it dozens if times to be able to tell.

 

The pain during full lotus is due to the accumulation of carbon dioxide in the blood. Not only is it toxic, but it expands and stretches the veins and arteries, which is very painful. It damages the body.

actually my claim was that it does NOT necessarily hurt.

 

But to answer that question, just because you overcome the pain once does not mean you have overcome the pain permanently.

It is no form of accomplishment. It does not liberate. It is a temporary state somewhat like deep sleep.

maybe read less Milarepa and practice more?

And I really didn't ask you to lecture me, I thought you were interested in other's opinions, not in pushing through yours. I'm not willing to argue with you.

Well, I do like and appreciate the concept of adressing some unknown facts ofbreal Mo Pai, but wouldn't it have been sufficient to provide links in this case...?

Have a good time dear!

 

And yes, most sure it will end up in chaos, but camping IS important

 

See you then in two weeks

"I worked at the posture. It hurt. But it was worthwhile. I'm glad I put in the effort and I'm glad I had a teacher who pushed me to do so, who saw that I could do the posture if I tried."

.....

Hope that helps.

Hm, I don't know... As mentioned in the meditation-posture-thread, I'm using that position as good as I do/can because I feel it's comfortable. That might be the case because I accidetally started to do some minutes of stretching my legs every evening before going to sleep.. Came across that years ago when I was training some simple dancing, and got used to that as otherwise I felt my leg-muscles felt like "clumped". I don't like going to sleep without bringing my muscles at ease any more. As that have been years of extremely slight exercise that might have improved my start with it (began with that first stretching exercises when I was a teenager). Otherwise I'd hardly do that now, I suppose. I mean, it's about relaxation of the mind, and I for my part tend to find that more easy without too much pain.

 

And another aspect, though it might be another topic, but I for my part really feel that 20 minutes EVERY day are more wirthwhile than 1hour of practice every three days. Can't tell about anybody's practice of course, so I'm not specifically adressing anyone, but if it's such a torture for you.. Hm, maybe find a softer way than what you're doing? And most important about meditation is really that you do it, and regulary at best. Improvement of chi-flows will come very natural then. At least that's my experience.

 

I can't help but feel that the basic premise here, that overcoming the pain is some form of spiritual breakthrough, is false.

hm, I think you simply got that wrong.

If you're doing meditation correctly, that should change your chi flows.

What that guy experienced basically had not much to do with whether he was enduring pain first, it was an effect of meditation, and might well be lasting for quite some time afterwards. Could have happened in other postures as well

 

Your dentist story is a different thing. A human body just reacts with giving you partial self-anaesthesia if you're exposed to overwhelming pain after some time. That might give you a feeling of being high, actually it's a means to help you survive, so you wouldn't feel some great injury first and might be able to have your body brought to a safe place for recovery. That's just a short-termed biological reaction.

Opening of energy channels during meditation and resultant relief is a different thing, and yes, one effect might be that legs or other parts of one's body don't hurt any more due to the good chi-flow.

 

Btw, I do like core zen teachings, but I don't like those masochistic tendencies that seem to have become part of the religious expression of that system. I think a wise person wouldn't need to torture themselves to achieve accomplishments. You can't force wisdom to grow anyway.

 

 

Whilst not being someone of authority I can but hope that these points will give you pause for thought.

lol, if thought aka active use of brain capacity would be involved to some degree here we would hardly need to read that stuff the fifth or so time now.

Obviously it's not more than some mechanical automatism that lacks control by anything like reflective thinking, and as this I don't see why it shouldn't be treated as such.

It is completely wrong especially in a forum like this.

I'd suggest you leave then and start your own forum.

And maybe start to think about what is right on your own one.

@mod team, can you not please switch over to just silently banning those idiots until we're through that phase. They beg for it, so why care about who they are.

It's annoying.

 

Btw, good idea to limit posting numbers for newbies.

 

C'mon, don't overexaggerate, it's not like the finer points of Svatantrika vs. Prasangika are being delineated; we're talking "Heart Sutra", basic Mahayana stuff, here.

hm, if you should with this try to express that the former is higher stuff than the latter, in my opinion you're just victim to a serious misunderstanding what buddhism is about.

But of course, as I'm not your teacher, that's really not my problem

Glad you referred to it as Stillness-Movement. Often people will shorten it to S-M practice and i wonder if people think we're hard core sadomasochists .

Lol, thanks for the note, I tend to find some instruments missing, but indeed my first interpretation of SM is not Stllness Movement

Sounds contradictory, btw.

This thread is in danger of succumbing to DharmaWheel- itis.

 

Hm, to me that would actually mean that

1. Some particular monk would suddenly stop participating because on some occasion I revealed I'm female, and he can't bear writing or talking on one level with a female being;

2. Some Ex-mod would show up and misinterpret every single word I write;

3. Some particular mod will close the thread for "obvious reasons", namely the fact that he has seen my nickname under participants ^^

 

Did I ever mention I like TTB?

 

Btw, I don't feel there are more than half a dozen or so persons on TTBs who argue on DW-level. The problem might be more like number and length of posts

I really liked what Dr. Johnson said in interview question #2:

 

"I believe that in any tradition, if a disciple sincerely applies himself, eventually his teacher will appear to continue with his training."

Well, not intending to disturb you, but after having fallen into the trap of thinking like that some times I pity that being should s/he show up being a "real one".

But I don't think that will happen anyway. I think if you want a tradition to have good teachers you need to become one yourself. And just accept that this tasks includes that you have to pick up the pieces of "real stuff" from the dust you get from others, purify it, realize it, and maybe finally make it usable.

At least we're not the first generation working on that.

 

On a side note, if you have trained with a few good ones, you wouldn't fit into my only book learned category either, in whatever you trained in .

Well, that will hardly hold true for any humans, though with some humans there has been communication.

Training in a direct sense only with non-human entities if you want to restrict it to good ones. And actually I'd refer to myself as autodidact. Unfortunately accepting a bad person as a teacher, and if only for limited time, will create more hindrances to clear up afterwards than it has benefits. Therefore - beware of human beings as teachers

 

But don't worry, I'll hardly sell myself as a teacher or accept students, nor do anything but have exchange from student to student with others who may have less experiences. I know I'm far from being qualified for such a responsibility.

Doesn't hinder me from criticizing "authorities" who obviously lack personal qualification either, hehe.

Hey, every male Tibetan will become a Rinpoche if he's born into the right family ^^ Very few are good guys, some undergo possession by compassionate masters of their lineage during teachings, but quite a lot are just materialists who were born into spirituality as their job and duty.

 

And even concerning the powerful guys I'd be cautious actually.

 

Well, I've been that burnt by bad persons that the thought of trusting someone on the spiritual road has really become an unrealistic idea, and which person would be humble enough to be tested for more than a year by some western lay-practicioner? That last exclusion even eradicates the two dozen or so persons that are qualified as real teachers, not just as teachers of magic or shamanism.

 

Good luck with that guy you're gonna meet anyway.

Though I feel this way about anything strong enough to actually work .

Hm, if it's about shamanism and magic you're probably right.

If it's about spirituality, well, if you just work on yourself and invest some time to study and realize some essential texts, you can for sure still become better than most of today's Rinpoches

Aaah, great, works!

 

Thank you!

Once again another issue ... obviously my PPF moderation rights got lost somewhere. Might I please get them back?

Would rather not post there if I can't lock topics and hide posts I wouldn't like to show up there :/

 

Here's an article that can help us fill in the gaps and make our lives easier and better, if followed:

 

Somehow I found parts of the Surangama Sutra more useful for that purpose. Can hardly tell why.