Starjumper

I see this Chanwu is like Buddy only worse, I guess there's a never ending parade of people like that here. I met Mantak Chia and went to some of his seminars and I think he was a nice person. He told me I should learn some tai chi before coming to instructor training of his and that is how I met my masters. They require years of learning, rather han one or two weeks, before allowing one to teach. It's true Chia teaches some standing and moving, but the some of the classes put on by his teachers, which I helped to promote, were all about the sitting and visualizing. The person i met who was damaged had been to one of these. She was very overweight, unhealthy, and totally sedentary. She should NEVER have done even more sitting. Note keywords: which took priority

I think maybe Taoist masters don't laugh too much but they might giggle softly, quietly, happily now and then at some good news from a student.

Allan gets the reading comprehension award of the week!

Yes, and speaking of idiots ... These exercises, like doing the MCO, inner smile, bone breathing, etc etc etc, were developed back in a time when people got much more exercise and were much healthier. Their world and their bodies were not so toxic, but more importantly, they all got more exercise than most athletes do these days, they were slender and stronger and much healthier than a person who thinks they are healthy these days actually is. Even more importantly is that they combined these visualizations with extensive martial arts and moving chi kung training, which took priority, it's safe for people like that. Instead, these day so many people are sedentary and overweight, they need some good exercise, like tai chi or a good moving chi kung form nd do plenty of it. They shouldn't do even more sitting around. What most people these days think of as being healthy is actually "not too sick" and even most people who think they are healthy are absolutely disgusting compared to what healthy was 200 years ago in China. These big fat disgusting soft weak stupid sick lazy slobs with their big toxin loaded rolls of fat (did I say disgusting yet?) and pathetic weak muscles topped off with a weak materialistic mind, like me, are everywhere. So, Little 1, you are saying that these people should do even more sitting around and that it is safe and good for their health? These people are fools, led around by the nose by a money grubbing egomaniac, like me. That's the height of ignorance, and unethical, dangerous. The only reason those practices aren't more dangerous is because they are so wimpy. Edit: I just put 'like me' in there to defuse little ego explosions.

Yes, and post #80 was step 2. what you do for step 3 depends on what you get for step 2. Leg shaking may not be needed for it. What do you feel if you roll an imaginary tennis ball around in between your hands?

It's very dangerous if done by the wrong person or done in the wrong way, and a beginner won't know what a wrong way is. I saw one of the walking wounded once. This person had been a student of on of Chias teachers, had the benefit of an actual teacher and not just a book. She was permanently damaged and also was unable to meditate due to violent reactions that would arise right away.

Yes, the feeling of something missing, the feeling of disconnect, that we are somehow incomplete. I name thee The Fear. Why of why did we loose the Garden of Eden? Developing wisdom will not solve this problem. Wisdom will result from solving this problem but cultivating or having wisdom will not solve the problem. Since the wisdom comes after the solution then the wisdom doesn't really matter, does it? The exact nature of this solution/wisdom can not be transmitted to others with words, so alas, the wisdom path fails utterly. However, I can ally myself with Lin to some extent and that is: his path to cultivating wisdom may coincide to some extent with the path to overcoming The Fear, so to the extent that they coincide then he is on the right path =) Edit: I just read Lin's last post, where he explains what he means by wisdom and I see it agrees more with my ideas of what wisdom is (versus knowledge). I don't think being in the state of wisdom that he describes is enough to get over The Fear. Remember that many of those who have overcome The Fear, at least the quickest to do so, are warriors, warriors kill and punish.

Actually I think there are some beautiful things about Buddhism, I just can't recall what they are at the moment - kidding - I think some of the Tibetan practices are beautiful - but they aren't really Buddhist per se, they're the indigenous practices of the land that were absorbed by Buddhism. What Chung and Lu said about Buddhism was exactly right, and it's the religious aspect they were talking about. The same applies to ALL religions as far as their dogma is concerned. It applies to all the Western religions and also to the fundamentalist aspects of the Eastern ones, including Taoism. The fundamentalist aspect of Taoism is Confucianism. People wanted to think I was attacking Buddhism itself, but I wasn't. I hold many of the Buddhist practices in high regard, it's the dogma aspect wherein lies the danger. The problem with Buddhism is the huge volume of words attributed to Buddha and his psychoanalytical approach, because, as I said before, it attracts the emotionally handicapped of the West in droves. They think the words are important and focus so much on them that their 'practice is little more than words and ideas. They become lost in the words, and I've seen people say the most idiotic things while trying to explain some Buddhist concept. They say things that are so blatantly wrong that even a child with some common sense will see right through them. Western fundamentalists do exactly the same thing. -------------- Something to add to the who am I debate is the words of the master, Jesus, who said to only look ahead at the furrow the plow is about to make instead of looking back at the furrow the plow already made, he was speaking of reincarnation when he said this. If people remembered their past lives as a continuum they would have a much harder time making progress so there is a very good reason at the mystical/spiritual level for people to NOT know about their past lives.

I see that this practice of saying who am I out loud (the Hua Tow method?) in order to create doubt could be an interesting exercise, but not for me. This idea that you can truly know who you are by asking this question "Who am I?" and that it will transform a person in the way you say is stupid and it is mental jerking off. If a person remembers their past lives and the time they spent as a spirit in between their incarnations, then fine, they know what it is. To someone who hasn't experienced it it is shallowness itself to think that it actually makes a difference, they are kidding themselves. To momentarily experience no mind and feeling like your body isn't there is no big deal. So my point is that if you have the true experience of remembering that is one thing, but to think you will arrive at the same place by thinking about the question as if the answer mattered then that is a farce, or fundamentalism - same thing. My student announced that this very question had occurred to him during our last meditation. I thought it was synchronicity but it may more likely be that he picked it up out of my mind since at the time it was the biggest thorn therein, or else somebody upstairs is messin' with me again. Anyway I think that is fine for him to ask the question of himself since it arose on it's own and I didn't tell him to do it, and it is only the question that really matters and not the answer. Any insights that he arrives at as a result of this searching may provide him with some understanding of how things work and hopefully it will be entertaining to think about it but the understandings themselves are just ideas which lack the experience and are therefore not to be confused with the experience. This is the trap that most fundamentalists fall into, they think that if they learn an idea then they equate that to be as good as having the experience. They are so much in their heads and are so lacking of real life experience that they cut themselves off, they are ungrounded and floating in a fog world, they are ungrounded and disconnected and although they may pretend that their ideas make them whole deep down they have the fear. THAT, is mental jerking off, and experiencing no mind doesn't change it. ------------ Edit to change fag to fog =)

OK my friends, Lin, Adam and Wun Yuen ... and to others who aren't friendly ... Cultivating wisdom is a good thing, we can agree to that, but wisdom can only be related to Te and it manifests in what Buddhists call spontaneous right action. Thinking that concepts of your original face are important you will see someday as being a farce. Just because we sometimes feel like we aren't there while meditating is of no importance, if we peek we will see that we are still there, so it is just a sensation, one of many and should not lead one to think that the question "Who am I?" is important. Concepts are words and words are a shallow substitute for reality, it is all a mind game. All conceptual based tools of that type will either lead one astray or be dropped. This is at the core of fundamentalism versus spirituality and the fundamentalists will NEVER see the light.

Randi is a ripoff. All his tests are rigged, I know this from talking with some of his assistants and analyzing his tests, and you have to sign something that says no matter what the outcome of the test that Randi gets the final say and you can't sue him for it. Randi is using his scam to get millions of dollars from people, like fundamentalists Christians, who pay for his 'research'. If he ever gave his million dollars away he would be giving his game away. Just think of all the well meaning people that he has ripped off. People that paid all that money to travel to and stay in new York with hopes of proving their abilities and then getting tricked.

I'm afraid that shows plenty of bias, you just don't see it because you think your way is the only true way. =) Don't get me wrong. it does contain some truths too.

Hey, today's your lucky day, I'll make another try: People will gravitate to a level of spiritual/religious practice that fits their level of maturity, with the immature going for the fundamentalist sects. The way the more fundamentalist sects of Buddhism are presented attract this type. Taoism has much less of the "think this way/act this way" approach, which is fundamentalist, Buddhism has more of it. Speaking for myself, I have done and still do introspection but it doesn't go along the lines of asking myself things like "who am I" which in light of the self evident answer sounds like the stupidest question anyone can ask themselves, absolutely ridiculous, and this is probably why I have gravitated to the martial/spiritual path of cultivation rather than the mental jerking off path. However, today after meditation my #1 student of 12 years announced that he had the following question arise during meditation: "Who am I?" Well ROFL and beat me with a shit stick Now there's some god damn synchronicity. And he aint no dumbass like me either, he's a department head at a big University. He said he was thinking of reincarnation and what is it that reincarnates and is it really him or is it his body. I said: who I am is me and I waved, and I said I don't think about these things that are unknowable and don't really matter to me but that if he wanted to know about past lives (and therefore reincarnation) that there are ways of getting in touch with them.

visualization methods seem to be the only real way to get into the world behind the veil, the mystical world, and this is a definite part of Taoism. Concerning energy work, both visualization and non visualization techniques can work, but they work best for different things. Visualization can open up pathways and energy centers but does it create more energy? I doubt it but would like to hear if some people think otherwise. It seems to me that the methods for cultivating more energy are based on physical exercises, many of which can be somewhat strenuous. As I've stated elsewhere, in the Tai Chi classics it says that when a person has a lot of energy that it feels like they have ants crawling all over their bodies. Not key words 'a lot', and 'all over'. It's not like getting a flow going in the MCO or into a certain energy center. It's ALL OVER, and it's A LOT. Thank you, I'll get off my soap box now. In my system we do have some visualizations but it's nothing like the Chia style stuff. I used to be better at it but lost it. i think I've been motivated to work on my visualization abilities.

Is that a typo? Did you mean pulls or bulls? I think that a lot of the things that masters do require you to feel their energy but sometimes they demonstrate premonition and psychic knowing, like knowing what you do at home and what you're thinking. As you can see these things require personal contact and in many cases it also requires some kind of relationship.

Thanks, Feng Zhiqiang is a grand teacher of mine and I've learned the Hunyuan system. It is nice for a simple and effective non visualization system. Gao Fu told me she had a book written by Feng, about Chen style, which was for his students. She said she learned a lot from it, a lot that she didn't learn from being his student for so many years. Do you know if this book is available or translated? also, I'm wondering about the copyright issues with putting those books out there in PDF form. Is that OK to do?

Yes I do, but you missed the point of what I was saying, and I won't repeat myself.

You are correct and i will expand on this, but my comments were aimed primarily at the original poster, who asked the question. I think Cat said it very well: It's a game geeky adolescents play, this using Zen questions as a power trip, when it suits them. It's a mock - intellectual version of "I know I am, but what are you?" It appeals to those that need to be reductive and sit in a cul - de - sac to feel safe. My comment about it being for the spiritually and mentally handicapped were aimed at the original poster, who demonstrates these handicaps frequently. I realize that there are some here who have difficulty with reading comprehension and nit pic at pieces of posts, again like the original poster, and so I apologize in advance for not writing with lots of little paragraphs and short sentences. I hope the others will be able to bear with me to the end Now, this type of self examination and self introspection we are speaking of is useful and it is part of any good path, I think. The important point to make is that in most Taoist systems they don't use emotional psychoanalysis. Keep in mind I'm speaking of generalities here. In many Taoist systems if you tell the master you have some steenking little emotional problem you'll probably get a response like, "I know about it already, I had the same thing too, just keep practicing" The general belief, which is supported by TCM, is that if a person has a healthy body and energy system then the emotional health will naturally follow, so they focus on the body. Most Taoists don't display much in the way of emotional problems. On the other hand many Buddhist systems link up really well with psychoanalysis and addressing emotional problems, primarily in the West, and the psychoanalystical and emotionally handicapped types tend to flock to it like flies attracted to a pile of dung. They go on and on about their pathetic emotional responses and what Buddha or this or that sutra says about the way one should behave. They do not recognize the connection between the health of the body and the health of the emotions. I know there are many American Buddhist who are fine examples of emotional stability. The point I am making is that a person who has emotional problems, like the original poster, will gravitate to Buddhism for it's psychoanalytic aspect and to the fundamentalist sects that have adopted a band aid approach to solutions of same. Zen is not one of the fundamentalist sects. These emotionally weak people will likely not get the point of the Taoist methods and they won't see the point. This is why I said that the above questions are Buddhist/for the spiritually handicapped and are not Taoist. In the final analysis the type of self introspection of the "who am I" type arises naturally when a person has achieved greater clarity and they are working on Te, which is the Taoist way, to let things happen naturally in their own time, with out 'bossing' it around (particularly with the emotions) People are not TOLD that they must do this as part of the path, it is ALLOWED to happen. Or they can be told it is the thing to do while they still lack clarity, like the original poster, but then it will be little more than a circle jerk type of mind game, which is why I said it would be useless. Keep it in context, OK? I think the original poster has singled me out because he is jealous that I learned an extensive nei kung system from an advanced master while he, who claims to know nei kung and to be a teacher of it tells people to use mind games instead of nei kung, all the while telling people that I don't have the goods. ROFL. Please see above comments

Possibly to a person who can see auras well. Otherwise, as Lao Tzu once said, the sage hides his light.

There is a good book called The Way of Energy by Master Lam Kam Chuen. It doesn't have much movement though. One of my students lent me a chi kung DVD put out by Garripoli and I approve of it. Here is a youtube video clip of a piece of that DVD, I think you will approve: I found the video for sale on ebay: Beginning Qigong I'm sure there are other DVDs that have some systems that are simple enough but many types of chi kung, like mine, are too complex and change continually, and you must have a good grounding in the internal arts and postures in order to be able to do it right in any case. It is best if you can find a teacher because learning the moving types of chi kung is better if you have some 'real time' visual input and feedback.