Starjumper

Also, there were many martial techniques buried within the system, so much so that I had a student who was advanced in kung fu tell me he was shocked I was offering this stuff to the public. At the time I didn't even know what he was talking about even though I was teaching it. This shows another aspect of how effective a traditional way of teaching is. By 'technique' I mean techniques of cultivating martial power, not applications.

These last posts are great! Here's another way to look at it. Some aspects of chi kung are so holistic that one technique or set of techniques does many many things on many different levels. For example in my system one movement will frequently work on physical stretching and strengthening, opening the meridians, posture work (due to slowness of movement) and using the hands as energy tools (sometimes called massaging the aura) ... and of course it's all meditation all the time. Now if someone tried to cover all the bases of the one technique they could write a book about it, but they don't, do they? They'll normally tell you about one piece of it, maybe two. This creates expectations in the student and the student then focuses on only this one aspect. It closes them to more discovery and effectively shuts the door on broader development. It creates a student who expects to be spoon fed instead of making it a path of wonderous self discovery. There is so much to discover and there is so much depth. You don't create masters by spoon feeding students, you create puppets. So the verbose 'modern' teachers are robbing their students of most of the benefits. On the other hand some teachers can describe some details of posture of a movement and they aren't breaking that rule ... too much. It can shut the door to discovery of variations, which is part of the path to formless. My teacher didn't do that either. There was NO talking during exercise, EVER. If the student wasn't observant they simply missed the boat and the boat then sailed away without them. My teacher only had a few students, and he was a true grand master. And what does a master do? He creates masterpieces. Sometimes though he would get in a student's face and exagerate part of a posture which the student was oblivious to but he hardly ever did that, the boat simply sailed away. After class though, we would sometimes sit around for hours and talk about all kinds of things. Energy discussions, experiments with energy, healing techniques, ghost stories, and he would answer any and all questions - no secrets. We normally knew better than to ask questions like "what does this movement do?"

Glad you liked it. By 'tackle that' did you mean the pack up to Easy pass or the climbing we did later =) I'm guessing you mean the climbing part. Well, I don't usually get myself into that kind of trouble when i go into the mountains. It's the captain, he cwazy. I found it's a good idea a lot of times to, if he says "lets go up there" to just say NO. Sometimes I stay in camp and do tai chi and chi kung and sword practice while he goes peak bagging but more and more I feel like going into the mountains alone. ... like the time I went for four days before while juice fasting on a small amount of diluted fruit juice. I missed you too Cat and am looking forward to reading more of your posts. It's interesting that you were thinking about me too. It seems some of us establish some psychic connections over the internet. OK, for a refresher for other readers, this is concerning the spontaneous and formless systems that seems to be sprouting up like weeds everywhere recently. I don't know, was I the first to write about formless on my website and now others are copying it? Sometimes it seems that way. The words spontaneous and formless can refer to different things and yet they are related. Of course spontaneous can be done by anyone with little or no training. Sorry, got to sigh off for now.

I see, well I don't have time now because I must be leaving for the mountains tonight, but when I return, if I can find this thread, I'll tell you some of the aspects of a 'complete' holistic system and we can compare notes. Also, this idea of spontaneous (formlessness) has been taken too far by some teachers. In the tai chi classics it says very clearly that one must first study the forms before one can arrive at the formless, and study the forms in Nei Kung means the ten thousand techniques!!! No ifs ands or buts about it ... and now there are people coming out of the woodwork pandering formless and they don't have a clue what they are talking about. Yet it doesn't keep the uninformed from believing them. To the person who wrote me a PM, no I don't teach for free. My teacher told me people must pay, and it's only available in Seattle, and only to people who have the right stuff. I hope to return by Sunday, must put roof on house now.

Aha, so you are one of those psychic premonition type fellers, good for you (thumbs up emoticon goes here)

... and here I find myself quoting myself again. There seems to be a lot of talk of Nei Kung around here and so I need to correct this as I've always felt that a true Nei Kung system consists of thousands of techniques and so calling this thing, Kunlun, which is taught in few hours seminars, a Nei Kung, just feels like another lie. I'm not an expert on what Nei Kung is really 'supposed' to be though but I would say he's teaching a few Nei Kung exercises and not a 'system'. If it isn't a system then it's not really Nei Kung, is it? That's just my opinion, and I'm very opinionated, aren't I?. Not the sun. I've changed the pattern of my practice a little, having 'discovered' (remembered) and implementing some new parts. My teacher taught so many techniques, sometimes he only showed me ones one time, and it wasn't till later that I remembered and then 'extrapolated' the technique that I realized how powerful it was. "Watch him like a hawk" was some of the best advice I've ever gotten. In addition I've started taking some tonic herbs that my Chinese herbal doctor, a real genius, recommended for replenishing kidney chi. Also I've been taking rather high doses of systemic enzymes on an empty stomach ... plus other stuff.

Thanks stig, it's good to be back, with my buddy, Buddy, being gone. This place wasn't big enough for the both of us =) Oh yes, it's straight down from there for quite a ways. Actually my expression could have been calmer but my feet were soaking wet and cold. If you want to check out 'scary' then read the trip report I posted above, about some of the places three idiots can get themselves into in the mountains.

It's nice to see you again too, Rain. I hope you are doing well. My hair has gotten darker since that picture. For those of you who liked the picture of the mountains here is the trip report I wrote at ET which has more pictures and a description of some of the hairy scary places we climbed during our day trips away from base camp. I don't know if Xuesheng is up for this kind of entertainment =) Four days in the Fisher Creek Basin

Well maybe we can go there next year for the annual Empirical Taoism backpacking trip. Access is either many days or else through the back door, over Easy Pass, which isn't really that easy.

I do energy work on my students, who are very few, each week, each time they sit in meditation, which we do after the extensive moving exercises. The energy work (If we were Buddhist and only did it once it might be called a transmission; the word transmission is used to make the customer feel like it's a big deal in the same way a janitor is called a sanitation engineer) does several things. It helps to heal the student of physical problems, it makes their hands into more powerful energy tools, and it helps to open their third eye and crown point. Tien Shan energy does not cause people to have spastic attacks, it is a gentle, pleasant, stabilizing and energizing feeling. It tends to make people have a sort of sparkling joyous feeling which lasts for several days. Tien Shan energy is very different than Kunlun energy. It's called getting their motor started. In my system we train people to become powerful with chi and this requires secret techniques for making their hands more powerful.

That is Fisher Creek Basin, which is located in the North Cascades, about fifty miles South of the Canada border. I go backpacking frequently but this year I haven't gone because I've been very busy building a house in the mountains. Thanks, sometimes I feel like I share too much.

Thanks guys. I saw the picture of Li in the other thread and so decided to put a similar one of myself up here. It's of me mountain climbing in the rain in Volcanoland, which has the steepest mountains in the world. It's in Washington state, not too far from my city, Seattle, city of masters. I entered this valley from the pass in the background. I was told I look like a wizard in this picture and so: Wizard in wizardland.

HoNk! HonK!

Thanks for the vote, I'm just reluctant to share due to my own over exposure to forums and not wanting to get sucked into another one like this. I showed up here only to warn the roiling crowd of Bozos about Max the ripoff (has a nice ring to it but Max the liar would be more concise actually) only to find that it's become a Kunlun forum. I sort of started off on the wrong foot and I guess I'm just trying to burn my bridges so as to force a hasty exit. Sometimes though I end up making a friend or two, like Cat, who casts a spell on me to return. ... but: I see, well I said I never cared about it either before to after it happened, and, I also said it wasn't so great like many people say it is. I'm also experimenting with the growth obstacle concept, since the devil's in the details. I also said that there are various stages to the process and people are getting the different stages mixed up and so say some silly things. I just dislike writing about the subject, it annoys me, so I act annoyed.

For me it's mainly a way to exercise my dark side, you know, it's some kind of self destructive mode of operation that I embrace. Most everyone has some self destructive behaviors, I just try to take mine into consideration, and I still like myself anyway =) You know the saying, embrace your dark side but move towards the light. Could this be what is refered to as endarkmanet??? Endarkment .... Dark magic that casts a spell on the surface of the night. I wave my hand, the fire dances, and the world is changed forever. A imaginary red tennis ball appears on Buddy's nose. Go ahead, squeeze the old wheeze. Honk! Honk! Honk if you like Buddy: Honk honk. (fade out with more little honking noises as others down the bus squeeze their red noses.)

I see, the "if you're lucky someday I'll tell you", that's some habitual nonsense talk I like play around with as it is laced with several layers of sarcasm, several of which are leveled against myself. It's a joke. So yes, I was kidding about it being luck. I just feel reluctant to write much these days about non practice things, I don't know, I guess I can write about it, but in this thread??

That remindes me of the Tibetan practice where they meditate while sitting on a glass plate (insulator), facing a polished copper plater (electrical field reflector), and with a bar magnet suspended over their heads with the North end pointed towards the zenith.

Hi Cat, thanks so much for telling me about Ian's thread about the book which speaks of enlightenment. I read most of the first page he has on enlightenment and I can say that I really like this guys's style, you can trust him and what he says. There is so much there to read. Since you are reading the whole book I hope you can point me to the page which describes the 'big' one (which includes sudden onset of what is called cessation and of bliss, followed by a raincloud of knowledge). Lately I've been reading through the book Magus of Strovolos, like you are and I'm just not much of a book reader these days, having returned to enjoying mostly some science fiction. Many years ago on the internet I read a wonderful and precise description of enlightenment and I saved it but I've since lost it in a hard drive crash and now I can't find it when I do a search.

Just think, Lin, here's a way to have some fun. Next time you are giving a lecture to a group of people just picture them all with big bright red tennis balls on their noses, suspenders on their pants, and bright wild tufts of orange hair sticking out from behind their ears. Go ahead, laugh at them, they'll like it, just don't tell them why.

I don't know if that's good or not, as I've mentioned several times that I'm not enlightened. Watch out for tricky word definitions there now You have a pretty good idea? What from books? Which guru, rinpoche, or pandit did you study with? I knew that would piss you off - but guess what - I'm not selling anything. Just think - what if - Taomeow and I really have experienced enlightenment and look at how you are responding to it, look at yourself and your sureness about it all. Can you hear the sound of distant laughter, Buddy? And Taomeow my concubine? - Yeah, I wish! In my dreams maybe =) We're just two experienced Taoist practitioners, two real live actual 24 X 7 Taoists who have started a Taoism message board with the assistance of another enlightened young lady, how rare it that? Taoists actually running a Taoism message board - seems weird, doesn't it? Not really, I like to surround myself with beautiful women of power.

Sorry, I wasn't refering to this thread and us. I'm referring to the whole wide world. And yeah, we'll just have to disagree, but I think we're all Bozos on this bus, and all the other busses that are driving along are full of Bozos too. The world is overflowing with lots and lots of Bozos. Whenever anyone is in the process of thinking then that makes them a Bozo, guaranteed, heck, sometimes I'm one too. People think too much, they cwazy, and I am unanimous in this. Well my friend, I have purposely not been trying to be clear. I don't feel like there's much I need to teach anyone here, I just have this automatic response that makes me want to point out errors, I think you have it too. I just point out an error now and then but I'm getting much better at letting people say ridiculous things and leaving them alone. In addition, I'm guessing that English isn't your first language, is that correct? In spite of the appearances, one some level my remarks all mesh and make sense, but to someone like Buddy they just cause anger, I do that on purpose. Some here (that have designated themselves as the silent majority) who have found the level I write at, and who can overlook my penchant for exageration (an honored Taoist practice) may have followed and understood my meanings. I have scattered my info around in little pieces precisely so most people will miss them and not put them together, why should anyone bother? I think most people who have been enlightened will understand where I'm coming from. I'm sure Taomeow knows what I'm referring too because she knows what I stand for and I've previously explained it all with emphasis on clarity for her benefit. She knows it already in any case, it's not like I was teaching her anything. I'm guessing Witch and Cat would get what I've been saying, if they bothered to focus on it, I don't knw if they have. it doesn't matter really. So Lin, I don't blame you for not understanding what I see as the bigger picture I've been displayin ghere because I've made it cloudy on purpose. I just scattered a few bits here and there; possibly enough for some to get it but they would have to review what I've said here and in your enlightenment thread and be in the right frame of mind (which Buddy isn't) in order to get it. Very important, being in the right frame of mind. Also, most people are reading so many other posts by other people that the details get lost and are not put together. Trust me, I like the way Buddy and others like him are responding, I've been meaning for it to cause just that result. I only wish to teach those who want to learn and if those dont' say much then there's nothing to be done about it. It is truly an honor to be insulted by someone like Buddy!!

I see, well that sounds reasonable, except I would say that the going forward is more of a trend which contains it's little ups and downs. The Way throws curve balls at you, the farther you get, the nastier the curve balls are - therefore - ups and downs yes, but the trend is forward. However, in Taoism, which, like I said, is more realistic, it's called wisdom rather than being enlightened. Me, being a Taoist and all, and this, being a purported Taoism message board and all, I feel it is important to point out these differences in terminology. Well I'm sure, the path of words and thoughts and beliefs, (which I call religion) is the work of the devil Most Western religions and the fundamentalist sects of the Eastern religions all like that, and I'm pretty opinionated, aint I? Pure Land and Nichiren Buddhism are two fundamentalist sects that come to mind. If we're talking about enlightenment, which I never cared about, either before or after it happened, then as far as practices go some are much better than others, yes they are, if by better we mean they have a high percentage of students who experience enlightenment and they do it rather fast. After I had been with my teacher for about half a year he predicted it would take about five years (from start) to experience enlightenment. I know that due to the mood here most will assume he was trying to sell me a bill of goods, isn't that right, Lin? A couple of weeks later he said he thought it would take ten years instead of five because there are so many distractions in modern life. However, he was right the first time. I have a pretty good idea precisely what kinds of practices is most likely to have a high enlightenment ratio. They exist in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, but they are quite rare, and it's the path of the sorcerer that I am referring to. Don't worry, I know I'm prejudiced and I like myself anyway. I appreciate where you are coming from and I appreciate your crusade, it is good, however you are assuming things about me which miss the mark, probably out of habit from talking to too many Bozos. I know, I've been on the same crusade too, still am maybe =)