Angels

[Nungali]

Most modern images and ideas about angels are supportive and comforting ;

 

    

 

'' Noice ! ''

 

But WTF was going on with them in the Bible and we read supposed descriptions of them ?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stirling]

My experience is more like this scene starting at about 1m, and without the blood or any of the unnecessarily complicated nonsense beforehand. 

 

 

Angels ARE supportive and comforting if you are genuine and honest with yourself and others. They WILL come if you call them, and they have a way of manifesting. Strangely, they aren't Christian or even Abrahamic. 

[Nungali]

I have just been having an interesting conversation about that on a different and very strange *  forum ( some gem info among a turmoil of crap and modern uncomprehending garbage ! ) . 

 

Valid people have had interesting experiences ... at least one other  had an experience of a 'download ' 

 

I'll put my post from there below ; 

 

Same for me ( Your first two sentences ) . After many years I started referring to the process as a 'download ' - after many years, as , when it happened 'downloads' were not invented yet . I remember a beam of white light hitting me in the forehead , a 'white out' , an energy rush into my ' head' , a noise I could not identify except as chaotic, fast and seeming like a series of different soundings bips, clicks, and ' short wave radio static ' ( back then, that was the only thing I could compare it to ) . Apparent time loss , not to me though I thought the whole process took a few seconds but observers said otherwise ; I was standing there staring 'for ages ' and could not hear the people calling to me .

Decades later , I grabbed a cassette tape of the shelf and out it in the player ... to my shock that sound ( or something very similar to it ) came out the speakers .... WTF is that ! A flatmate came bolting in (as I had it up loud and it was his sound system ) and asked me what I had done to his sound system and shut it off . I told him what happened and he pulled the tape out and looked at it ; ' No wonder ! ' he said and then explained it was a 'computer tape ' with a program on it .

(  no I am not making that up ;
 

[Nungali]

 

- not anything like Raziel or Asteroth though . I had no idea at the time , it took me decades to , sort of , reverse engineer 'who' it was and what form they were taking ( and the reason for that became very apparent after a fuller examination of my natal chart ) .

I am wondering, if in your experience , you can at times 'access' parts of that download information , either by conscious contact with your 'storage facility ' , or by surfacing from the 'unconscious' spontaneously or in times of need ( especially 'dire need' ) ?

 

.....said ; 

 

Honestly, thats a cool question, and I dont really have an answer. The downloads were visual and somatic shapes and vibrations. Only a few have been revealed, or unfolded (if that is even the right term for it) but months later. Not the thread for it, but it would be cool to compare notes.

 

Me ; 

 

yeah ok, I dont know what to call a thread like that though , if you start one I will contribute . Notify me if you do .

For me any 'spirit' ( whatever we might want to classify it as ) is 'safe' depending on their works ( results ) , unfortunately judged in retrospect . However during the process we might be able to discern that .

I fully ascribe to Dr VanDusens * clinical observations in that , whether it is regarded as a 'spirit' or 'hallucination', the same 'rules' apply and one is that there are spirits of a 'good order' and a 'bad order' .... obviously the good order is 'safe' and the bad order not ( when one considers the why of the classification ) .

* Wilson Van Dusen: The Presence of Spirits in Madness

 

 

[Nungali]

No they are not Christian or Abrahamic ... they are 

 

Yazata . 

 

Why ? 

 

Because , to cut through all the accreted crap over the millienia  Yazata where first thought to be some type of divine principle  of 'goodness ', in various areas , that can influence humans, if they choose, to have a 'good' life  ( and one must understand the spiritual , social and personal ideas they had about 'goodness' ). More like 'principles' or  'concepts '  , some relate to 'offices' , some relate to forces in nature . 

 

They, in turn,  work through the people ,  in their 'spirit' ; 'mainyu' which actually means 'mind'  (unfortunately later the religion evolved away from a type of early 'Buddhist mind science  '  and devolved into these concepts meaning 'spirits ' . manifested beings, gods angels,  demons etc .  ie 'responsibility projected outwards )  and to  accept the or turn against them resulted in 

 

 

• Mainyu, the spiritual existence, is the co-existent dual opposite of the physical existence, gaetha. It is the non-physical or non-material existence that exists side-by-side with the physical existence. It is what the material existence is not.
• Mainyu is beyond our senses, though perhaps not beyond our feelings and intuition.
• Human beings are constituted from both the material and spiritual existences.
• Our spirit shapes and determines the nature of our attitude, our mentality and every thought, word and deed.

Spenta & Angra Mainyu

• A brilliant, positive, constructive, and beneficent spirit that seeks wisdom is called a spenta mainyu.
• The archetype and embodiment of spenta mainyu is called ratush, the righteous leader.
• A gloomy, negative, destructive, and harmful spirit that wishes to remain ignorant is called an angra mainyu.
• The archetype and embodiment of angra mainyu is called ahriman,

[Nungali]

... now looking Dr VanDusen's observations ; 

 

''  ... In my dialogues with patients I learned of two orders of experience, borrowing from the voices themselves, called the higher and the lower order. Lower order voices are as though one is dealing with drunken bums at a bar who like to tease and torment just for the fun of it. They will suggest lewd acts and then scold the patient for considering them. They find a weak point of conscience and work on it interminably ...  They invade every nook and cranny of privacy, work on every weakness and credibility, claim awesome powers, lie, make promises and then undermine the patient's will. They never have a personal identity though they accept most names or identities given them...

... In direct contrast stands the rarer higher order hallucinations... He also had a light come to him at night like the sun. He knew it was a different order because the light respected his freedom and would withdraw if it frightened him. In contrast, the lower order worked against his will and would attack if it could see fear in him. This rarer higher order seldom speaks, whereas the lower order can talk endlessly. The higher order is much more likely to be symbolic, religious, supportive, genuinely instructive, and communicate directly with the inner feelings of the patient ... In another instance the higher order appeared to a man as a lovely woman who entertained him while showing him thousands of symbols. Though the patient was a high-school educated gas-pipe fitter, his female vision showed a knowledge of religion and myth far beyond the patient's comprehension. At the end of a very rich dialogue with her (the patient reporting her symbols and responses) the patient asked for just a clue as to what she and I were talking about  ... ''

 

(in this instance it seems like a definition of 'Daena Yazata '  ; Daena is a Zoroastrian Yazata (divinity) representing conscience, insight, and religion itself, derived from the Avestan root for "to see". She is personified as a radiant maiden who guides righteous souls across the Chinvat Bridge to heaven, ... she is said to be an 'image of our soul '  ...  this seems the same 'energy' that I had 'knowledge and communication' with . .. although the knowledge of and the identification came decades later ) 

 

'' ... n general the higher order is richer than the patient's normal experience, respectful of his freedom, helpful, instructive, supportive, highly symbolic and religious. It looks most like Carl Jung's archetypes, whereas the lower order looks like Freud's id. In contrast to the lower order, it thinks in something like universal ideas in ways that are richer and more complex than the patient's own mode of thought. It can be very powerful emotionally and carry with it an almost inexpressible ring of truth. The higher order tends to enlarge a patient's values, something like a very wise and considerate instructor. Some patients experience both the higher and lower orders at various times and feel caught between a private heaven and hell. Many only know the attacks of the lower order. The higher order claims power over the lower order and indeed shows it at times, but not enough to give peace of mind to most patients. 

 

...  In contrast, the higher order appeared strangely gifted, sensitive, wise and religious. They did not conceal identity but rather would have an identity above the human. For instance, a lady of the higher order was described as "an emanation of the feminine aspect of the Divine." When I implied she was Divine she took offense. She herself was not divine but she was an emanation of the Divine.''

 

Which sounds very much like the early description of 'yazata' . 

 

*  ( from post above this  )  see 'stranger things ' thread    

 

[Nungali]

 a further note ; my take on this is we are  connected to a lot more than just physical forces , however one wants to see it . However they do not usually operate consciously on us . OR (most probably )  they should be , but  we fuck ourselves up or become 'preoccupied' with other 'important' things .  In any case , they are in a different zone to our normal senses , so when we have an experience , we have a need to understand it and then we cloth it in a combination of our own imaginings and current social contexts of the times we were influenced by when developing our 'tendencies '  (or programs ) .