Buddhist/Daoist Views Related to Xing/Dharmakaya(Split From What do you think about Neidan(內丹)?)

[MIchael80]

3 hours ago, cake1234566 said:

Yes that's a whole can of worms so to speak haha

The energetic bodies in Vajrayana are (generally) not the same as the yang immortal body of neidan, the rainbow body would be the closest comparison as its cultivated via reverting the consciousness back to origin but that's a very specific thing that uses an entirely different cultivation method and usually means that the physical form disappears and that life on earth has concluded

I know that several neidan lineages deal with other energetic bodies prior to the ultimate yang immortal body but I won't talk too much about that as I haven't received direct transmission on the topic

In Vajrayana I think depending on the lineage you are often instructed to assume the form of the deity 24/7 and so the merging of consciousness happens on varying levels throughout your life as perceptions are purified, there are stories of people able to physically become the deity after sustained practice of this

 

Ultimately we only have one human experience of course and so someone that has achieved each energetic body according to the tradition could tell whether they're the same or not, I would personally say that they're different as the cultivation methods and reported effects are different

 

To put on my universalism cap for a moment, religious daoism which is incorporated in varying degrees in neidan lineages deals strongly with deity yoga similarly to vajrayana, in religious daoism deity yoga is said to be a way to access ling qi or "brahma qi" as one aims to assume the authority and energy of heaven

I'd say the siddhis from yidam practice are likely similar to the religious daoism line of development even if done for different purposes

 

South east asian esoteric buddhism is super interesting, i've found some really cool stuff from Vietnam that incorporates neidan and tantric buddhism from the shingon line into one lineage

Almost impossible to find good info from there without taking a trip and knowing the right people though haha

 

Nan huai-chin has some interesting writings about the similarities between neidan and vajrayana as he says that he's studied both (mostly untranslated in chinese however)

His view from what i've seen is also that they are two separate processes that can ultimately compliment each other
 

 

Yeah, these non public south east asian buddhist lineages are super fascinating. 

They seem to be closer to the Tamil siddha lineages than modern buddhism. (with all their alchemical work etc).

 

Do you want to share a bit more what you have experienced there?

[Forestgreen]

8 hours ago, stirling said:

 

It is entirely possible to have complete realization without energetic work, 

And it is entirely possible to have the same realization with energy work, why so one-sided?.

And it is possible to do a lot of work and not having a realization about reality, but having other experiences that a tradition values and call spiritual. 

It is even possible that, lets say a theravada buddhist, doesn't call it energywork but still practice it, because nomenclature differs between traditions and there is more to it than breathing methods and pushing energy into the head. 

Just imagine the possibilities😁

 

I feel that you are playing with words. If you do not think that practice causes realization, why did you spend so much time practicing? Why do you mention that people with a few months of practice might get short spiritual experiences, instead of saying "I watched football with the gang last saturday, and darn if we all didn't have a glimpse of reality"?