opendao

 

The dogma of schools help to preserve the superficial mappings, yet the transmission of the timing is what is important about having a teacher. Teachers come in many flavours and schools, but it is not their words that cause one to awaken.

right, it's their no-words. Dao is a teaching without words, if you remember. How you can learn without a teacher? How you can find a teacher without a school and books? How you can overcome various practical challenges without same-minded people? School is important, but to really understand it you need to be in, not outside.

So many mistakes in wu Liu pai's classics.

 

I don't want to waste my time to chase the wrong way.

 

If you want, that is your choice.

 

But not me.

yes, that's my choice based on the real teaching not fake qq groups. So don't waste you precious time, you have a lot to learn in the time left.

129 見此景至即當移念出定。三界者，下丹田，中宮，頂門謂之三界也。

 

Too many mistakes....

my English is not perfect too, but once more: the method of Wu-Liu Pai is not in these words or other books.

The ancient alchemy methods has been never disclosed in books. We know it because we practice it. Other people have nothing to compare so they repeat same mistakes and simple exercises from 10 yuan books available everywhere. If it would be so simple, we could see all immortals around us. But nothing even close.

Obviously, you must be one of wu Liu pai's practicer.

 

I know what you feel.

 

You try to protect your belief.

 

I am really sorry to hurt your belief.

 

But I come here to tell the truth, to tell people the right way.

 

So I would not hide anything.

 

I don't know you all.

 

My English is poor.

 

All the people here is far away from my life.

 

I have no need to make any money from you.

 

So telling the truth to let people go the right way is my goal here.

 

Sorry.

So far you said nothing true about Wu-Liu Pai, nor about its method, so for me these words are empty.

I have no beliefs. I have results, so for me it's clear that you're mistaken, and your claims have no relation to the School.

There are a lot of qigong people in china who pretend to be Wu-Liu Pai followers. They do seminars, they charge money for that. People without proper understanding of the Tradition fall into their hands. It needs a lot of time and luck to find real Wu-Liu groups in China. Even if you're Chinese.

This is really interesting.

 

A while a go they told a story of a 6 year long lie by their teachers. Like one of their Chinese teacher lied to the western student about an exercise being a real deal. "Turns out" it was not.

 

Now they upped the ante by saying that Liu Huayang , whom they claim to be one of their own founders, was lying in his book.

 

They helpfully bolded that part.

no, it's just you who cannot read and know nothing about Neidan close door teaching. 

The method of Wu-Liu Pai is not in the books.

What alchemy results do you speak off?

any. What is the goal of the alchemy?

That's why Xiao Yao Pai is the future of spiritual cultivation and hopefully one day we have scientific union with spirituality. We can not expect people to follow old rules and traditional way which was focused on individual cultivation with no relation to society (You had "destiny" or occasion to practice true neidan then rest stopped to be important like society to the time Lu Dongbin started to propagate with more openness to the people) Also Wu Liu Pai folks, look on how tibetan buddhism starting dominating the west they said "Okay, f-word those high tantra funny things, just let initiate people to all hight stuff with openness" that's why most people now moving towards buddhism as they see it profitable for their being. People will always be like that. When Christian religion was dominant? why? It's easy, even if they created folk tales about Jesus and stuff like this, the icon is to giving out yourself, do good, and focus on that to be selfless towards people, compassionate and general focus on Gong De that why Christian is now so dominant religion to this day. (Of course spirit of christianity is weak, there are good people here and there but not many). So they see "Oh this people are really with the good heart" so everybody was stick to them, even when they got eaten by lion they still followed their faith and stick to do "good" under their banner of religion - with such mind, such attitude and intensity even faith with some old head governing the universe is still here throbbing here and there. Image if such attitude would be in the people who truly cultivate energy, neidan and other practices which brings transformation rather then faith. I one time watched video of funny gray beard hindu guy and he nails it why even serious practitioners are not really impacting world around the way they can 

You're mistaken. Deeply. Wu-Liu Pai and other alchemy schools

have no problems with getting new students,

they don't have problems with teaching only those who have destiny,

and there is no agenda to dominate the world and create new mass religion as Xiao Yao Pai tries to do.

So it needs no smart marketing advises.

Dianetics had more success on this way, so if you like such things follow Hubbard.

"It's better to lost the Tradition than to transfer it to evil hands". Think about it. 

The school heart is open only to same-minded people. If you don't accept "old rules", there plenty of possibilities to live this life. Just remember that not all people are like you, and their numbers is enough for school to continue. With you or without - only in your hands. Destiny can be changed.

Our liberty to compare one thing to another is limited by our experience, and so I do not agree with you.

Hopefully the ways you follow will one day cure some of your bitterness towards the more primitive people, who presumably lack the results you only speak of.

effi, opinions of primitive evangelist without any alchemy results are very important for me, but keep posting in your school thread, where you can be a god and delete any questions you have no answers. You love word games, but I'm not.

I don't know what kind of wu Liu pai you are.

 

But wu Liu pai's mistakes exit everywhere in wu Liu pai's classics.

 

I saw many wu Liu pai practicer said the same word with you.

 

They said the real teacher is very important.

 

Yes, I aggear that.

 

But they are not real teachers.

 

They teach the wrong way to people and make people waste time to useless methods.

please share names of those charlatans, people will be very thankful to you. 

And you read classics wrong, but it has no sense to discuss, you're too sure you are awaken.

If the wu Liu pai in your town do what you said, it is really good.

 

But I talked with many Chinese, not single one.

 

what city do they practice and under what teacher?

 

They put their mind in lower dan tian to control the breathing to make the chi go circle.

 

They say "守竅"

 

They think the 竅 is in the lower dan tian.

 

So they put their mind of breathung in lower dan tian.

 

This way can make the chi go circle.

 

They call it "小周天"

 

But the truth is 竅 is not in lower dan tain.

 

竅 is 玄關一竅.

It appear because of 機

 

If the 機 is not right, 玄關一竅 would not appear.

If somebody claims to be from Wu-Liu Pai, and after that start teaching the way you described, then simply such person is not from Wu-Liu Pai. Somebody fooled you.

Wu-Liu Pai method is not disclosed in books and cannot be taught without formal acceptance to the School. It's a practical thing, part of the teaching mechanism. It cannot be different.

What you describe here is just a small part of a lesser method of northern schools (longmenpai etc). You are in the mere beginning. Be careful. Mistakes are easy to get by practising without a teacher, but very hard to mention and fix.

2) why do professional zen meditators often get some sort of Qi-illness that can only be cured by pushing the energy down with the mind?

 

they use mind and imagination too much

 

3) In my experience, the energy only tends to go upward when the mind get emptiness and the body is forgotten.

 

this is not MCO. It has another name and has no sense for the alchemy.

 

MCO is a specific daoist exercise which is supposed to be done with precise breathing patterns and by swallowing saliva.

 

no, such things have no relation to real MCO. 

Real MCO is a result of Building the Foundation and additional specific work.

 

Of course they do

 

This is a quote from Liu Huayang who is the Liu in Wu-Liu

 

 

以我之意宰之，以呼吸收之，和合真种，转运法轮

 

"Governing with the mind, ..., rotate the dharma wheel"

 

http://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&chapter=60761&searchu=%E6%B3%95%E8%BD%AE&remap=gb

 

The ignorami who pretend to be from Wu-liu do not know this.

Arhont, you cannot even translate correctly a simple phrase, but it's not new.

My pretensions to be from WLP are easy to check for those who really wants that.

But your pretensions to know Neidan have no any foundation: 

There is no single book where Wu-Liu Pai method is disclosed.

Huimingjing is not an exception. What's written there is not what is practised in Wu-Liu School. So making conclusions about alchemy from the books is a mistake #1.

So we are all doomed? :<

who think like Taoist Texts is doomed. See results.

 

If one follows the way naturally, he should be able to one day write his own Dao De Jing.

However Dao De Jing is ONE and there is nothing comparable so far.

And results, described in DDJ are still can be found in students who follow old ways and not modern primitive fake evangelists.

 

The question was not addressed to you but since you took upon yourself to speak  Antares.... Would you kindly explain what  he meant by "turned out"? Did your leader misunderstood his teacher for 6 years or what?

 

or what. He understood his Teacher very well and practised diligently for 6 years to successfully get the results.

Does "school" mean 派別 ？

 

If we read the dao classics, we all know that the real classics have no school.

 

They don't say what school they are.

There is only one way to reach there.

 

I know many people learn wu Liu pai here, just like mainland china.

 

I have talk with many people who practice wu Liu.

 

They use mind to control the chi to let chi make a circle around body.

Wrong. In Wu-Liu Pai students do not "use mind to control the chi or to make a circle around body".

Moreover, the Patriarch of the School is known for his critical attitude to those who practise such things.

It seems you are mistakenly believed some people claimed that they are part of the School, why they are not, so I really suggest to check your source of knowledge because it's not a first time you say false things about Wu-Liu Pai and its teaching.

Schools are needed to avoid such mistakes, think about it this way.

And all classic Neidan authors had Teachers, and they organised students into schools.

Because it's important for the practice of some high levels of the alchemy.

In other words:

The Wuliupai level 1 preliminary practice to their taoist alchemy main training delivers better results by far

than practically every chi main training system for health discussed on thedaobums!

 

Conclusion:

Obviously opendao's claims how great and special Wuliupai is

are simply the truth.

The problem why popular western qigong systems don't really work for health is because ancient knowledge about human body was lost. In the alchemy it was preserved, that's why Daogong, which was created based on the alchemy principles, works more efficiently.

We have many stories like KodoNinja shared... Again, we don't claim that there is nothing else comparable to Daogong, but it has some unique features hard to find nowadays. Personally, I'm a big fan of this method, it gave me a lot for the alchemy practice and transformation, and I see now how it changes other students in the world.

However, I see very often same mistakes when people having some experience in modern qigong or yoga start doing daogong with old habits, mind work, body alignment and so on. Moreover, they continue to combine old methods and Daogong, sometimes even without mentioning it...

I think, there is no way to learn anything new by just repeating old habits. It has sense to learn it as it is the only method you know. Then it'll open its secrets and real potential.

"It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method"

 

From what I know Artemyev accepts learning from immortals that's why it's weird for me you guys speaking such things against knowledge of your teacher. 

accepts, but Antares is right.

Also Dmitry Artemyev has disclosed some signs happening after encountering xian-immortals. So it's clear that most of the stories about such events are fake.

You seem to be saying that his teachers lied to him about what they were teaching him.

Falsely made  him to believe that it was a wulu method and then after 6 years said woops, it was not.

So they lied to him for 6 years, day in and day out, while he was paying them for something that it was not.

Is that what happened?

Yes or no please.

no

I've read and heard various references to zhan zhuang having a relationship to neidan or there possibly being a form of zhan zhuang specifically intended for neidan but can't seem to find out much about if such a relationship truly exists or not. In short, what is the relationship if any of zhan zhuang to neidan? Is there really a specific neidan oriented zhan zhuang practice? More broadly, is there a relationship between neidan and the spiritual goals of Daoist cultivation (whether neidan or not)? Anywhere I can learn more about these topics?

Hi,

not sure what do you mean exactly by "spiritual goals of Daoist cultivation" (please elaborate, it's interesting), but there is a direct relationship anyway: Neidan IS the goal. And the path at the same time.

Yes, there are special forms of zhang zhuang. Various in various schools.

Apeiron&Peiron

 

Hmm. Well, the back-and-forth comments aside, I am still wondering how the methods work.

 

They have been described as balancing post-heaven in order to cultivate pre-heaven energy/resources. I thought that was what most forms of qigong/neigong had done. With the Taoist Yoga, we balance the post-heaven energy with the quick-fire methods that are meant to refine generative force by circulating it in the microcosmic orbit. There are a prescribed number of rotations that seem to have celestial significance.

Balance is the balance of Yin and Yang.

By the method you described, you can get an excess of Yang by means of exhausting the "generative force" Jing.

Such method is dangerous and have no relation to the alchemist "quick fire".

Daogong uses more gentle, natural approach, similar to Zhang Zhuan.

 

Granted, this will fill and stabilize the physical and post-heavenly level of functioning and does not constitute full transmutation. But, after this is established, there is also the selectively reversed cycling so as to purify with the slow fires. It is described as raising positive fire and lowering negative fire (these were generated during the microcosmic orbiting) and it works to further refine the post-heavenly so as to approach the pre-heavenly.

Taoist Yoga and Zhao Bichen tried to express so called "northern method" with some Buddhist additions. In Wu-Liu Pai such method is known, but the major way is so called "southern method " which has no relation to what you describe.

 

 

Now, I am slightly confused. It was described (by you) that Taoist Yoga will will burn pre-heavenly to preserve post-heavenly. I don't quite see how it burns pre-heavenly. Not unless the pre-heavenly is somehow engaged when "the light is turned around" and the gaze is inward. Then again, since this is done so that the faculty of the third eye can be used to move and refine the body's resources, I don't know what resources it might require in order to do what it does.

Any postheaven work needs preheaven to be spent. So if you want more postheaven work, you burn more preheaven. Like fuel.

But, all of this aside, if the alchemical methods of the Wuliu Pai are unique and unlike any of the other schools out there, how is the direct pre-heavenly cultivation engaged? Just going from the Taoist Yoga works (and the topical explanation that I had read), it doesn't seem like it is that different.

This is the main secret of the southern, ancient method of the alchemy: those who know it progress fast and relatively easy, while the method partially described in Taoist Yoga is considered to be slow and hard.

There are no public texts about the ancient method, so basically there is nothing to compare.

Northern method is not unique and known in many various schools. So probably you read some texts about it and they have evident similarity with Zhao Bichen.

If you've stated your opinions clearly, and I think you have.  Why don't you'all give this thread a break and start one on a more focused subject?

not sure why, context is important and the questions people have were created by the article in the first message.

If Aetherous wants he can move his posts into Wuliupai thread or any other place (garbage bin?), because they really have no relation to the article itself.

For results I'm planning some other text, thinking now how not to step on somebody's callosity...

I should've ended that sentence with  "...if you represent a certain tradition" for clarity's sake, but I thought that was implicit when I said "other".

Obviously in the article there is no Tradition being disparaged. As well as here on the forum previously. Tradition has very precise definition which includes texts, lineage, teachers, sacred places, methods, results and some other important things.

People talking with walls and imaginary ghosts don't represent any Traditions at all.

You're fighting with imaginary windmills.

if you want us to flock to your school you'll need to demonstrate some results. youtube vid would b nice. Maybe of your school's master i wanna see some cool golden auras and yang shen powers. pls dont edit the video with special efx either because it will just look bad on your part.

I don't want you to flock in any school. 

If you're looking for youtube video, then some people here released a few. I haven't found any immortals on them, but maybe you'll have more luck.

The demonstrable results that mean the most to me...an open and kind attitude and a peaceful accepting nature, as evidenced by the tendency to refrain from criticism and belittling others and their paths.

then Huang Di, Lao Zi, Zhang Boduan and many other high level Teachers of Dao don't have any demonstrable results.