opendao

I saw teacher of single yang and he do not look young nor like immortal or nothing you talking about - stop selling people dream. He actually is very "decent" looking nothing like you speak off. 

Then that's all you deserved. I and other students have seen him young, and there are pictures where he looks the same way as we saw him. I think I'd rather believe what I saw in reality then internet rumours and anonymous people disseminating lies. Knowing the real age of the Patriarch, I think he looks descent enough. Moreover, there are other great Teachers in the WLP you have no idea about.

I really have no interest to ask you what and where you've seen, but if you're so sure in your righteousness, try to prove your words. What I've heard so far from you here and in PM looks struggles of lack of any facts.

Dont you know?!! Nobody can see a Wu-Liu Pai practitioner!!!

That is why there is no photos of them. It is one of their superpowers. The one and only actually.

I know very well, I've been to China, and seen everything with my own eyes. There are photos as well, even in public domain, and we show rare historical evidences as other things confirming our authenticity. It's a close school, as all other alchemy schools nowadays, and basically so far it is the only school that is represented in the western internet. People like you are not welcomed and won't be able to find anything even if they know exact address. It's just a fact after reading your absurd ideas for the past 10 years or so, you couldn't support any of them. This new is not an exception. Farewell.

I have read the entire thread carefully. There is not a lot that I miss when the rules are being breached. I am well aware of what is happening here.

 

There are no double standards, the rules apply to everyone. The warning applies to any and everyone posting in the thread who insults another. 

 

Take the warning seriously or not, that is up to you.

 

I hope that you decide on a different way to defend and prove your system.

Thanks for your efforts, I hope it's not in vain.

and this one can give some ideas too: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40488-what-is-dao

I wrote a bit about results here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42657-why-do-you-say-school/page-7#entry723307

"Dao is not about experiences, not about visions, it's about results. One of the result is a physical immortality and return of the youth. People afraid to even talk about it, because then 99% of so-called "alchemy masters" are obvious charlatans. But open any classic book, they all are about immortality and in-depth physical transformation, on becoming Xians and Buddhas. Accept it and search seriously, or practice something else, more suitable your goals. Alchemy without immortality is a waste of time. This result is a milestone, it cannot be skipped, because then it means you cannot go further.

To prevent usual trolling: nobody in a true alchemy school won't tell you about his/her personal results, achievements, practice, because if they do it, they won't be able to continue the practice. The statistics in Wu-Liu Pai School was published recently, maybe I'll translate it somewhere. For now just this: many Russian students could finish the first big step in Wu-Liu Pai school. It means a lot for those who understand. To learn there is very hard, so my point is that you know that such things exist and I'm responsible for my words."

If your definition of replying accordingly is to personally insult someone who disagrees with your system, then you are mistaken.

No, it's not my definition, read careful that the reason is in lies. And you can find a lot of personal insult to my address in this topic ("salesman", "crazy person" etc), so let's try to live without double standards.

Now let's read what realized men, founders of Wu-Liu Pai school, have to say about the topic (Why do you say "school"?):

"Such people degrade in teaching, without understanding the Dao of Buddha, fall into mistake of conventional Chan phrases and in the end become completely fools, on the contrary getting harm from these records (Yulu). 

After all, without true words the Dao of perfection won’t be enough to attest the truth, without true records it will not be enough to unmask the falsehood. And if the falsity wins, then obsessions (hallucinations) will appear. And even if there is wisdom, nothing will be to follow and nothing to start with." (Liu Huayang)

Zhang Boduan, another realized man of the Southern School, which methods are learnt in Wu-Liu Pai:

If you don't know the direct-orthodox teaching about true lead - then by various actions will spend your achievements.

Naive people constantly trying to learn by books, avoiding teachers and schools. It's ok, everybody has a chance to try. But if you got no results, no Dao, what's the point to lead others to the same hell?

We've heard a lot of critics to WLP, to Wu Chongxu, to Liu Huayang, but find out years when they lived, and ask yourself, how realized man Wu Chogxu could teach Liu Huayang? Then think if you can do the same or those who you follow. If not, then it's too early to criticise.

Dao is not about experiences, not about visions, it's about results. One of the result is a physical immortality and return of the youth. People afraid to even talk about it, because then 99% of so-called "alchemy masters" are obvious charlatans. But open any classic book, they all are about immortality and in-depth physical transformation, on becoming Xians and Buddhas. Accept it and search seriously, or practice something else, more suitable your goals. Alchemy without immortality is a waste of time. This result is a milestone, it cannot be skipped, because then it means you cannot go further.

To prevent usual trolling: nobody in a true alchemy school won't tell you about his/her personal results, achievements, practice, because if they do it, they won't be able to continue the practice. The statistics in Wu-Liu Pai School was published recently, maybe I'll translate it somewhere. For now just this: many Russian students could finish the first big step in Wu-Liu Pai school. It means a lot for those who understand. To learn there is very hard, so my point is that you know that such things exist and I'm responsible for my words.

 

***MOD TEAM WARNING***

 

 

Please read the forum Insult policy in its entirety.

There is plenty of room on TDB for all teachers and their beliefs without resorting to trolling, name calling and

belittling another. A teacher should lead by example, and the examples displayed and the attitudes here are less than what I suppose many are looking for in someone to lead them on a spiritual journey.

This is the final warning that will be placed on this thread regarding personal attacks.

Any further attacks will result in mod team action.

 

********

 

I decided to repeat it here, so make my position clear to all readers:

I really don't care when I'm being insulted but if it happens I think I'm in my right to reply accordingly.

I've seen your notifications and I'm trying to make your life easier, but really I don't think it's allowed by any rules to accuse Wu-Liu Pai (or whatever else school or person) in various crimes without providing any evidences. however it happens in every post of Awaken. As you can see I tried to tell her politely in the beginning, but she ignored that.

Cultivation is like cooking rice.

 

At first, it need big fire.武火

 

After the water boil, then turn down to small fire and keep on cooking.文火

 

After the rice is well-cooked, we turn off the fire.止火

 

But we still can not open the cover and let it stay for a while.

 

The electric rice cooker will keep the rice warm.--溫養（I do not know how to translate the noun to English. But this noun is very important in dan do. If anyone can translate for it. I'll be thankful.)

 

So what we need is the right fire.

 

We do not need to churn the rice while cooking.

 

The fire will make the water go circle by itself.

 

Churn -- have Wei

 

Go circle（convection ） by itself because of heat( the Shen fire)---- wu Wei

 

 

 

 

The fake dan dao school call the convection as dharma wheels.

 

But it is not.

 

The convection in dan dao is called 沐浴，means take a shower.

 

Dharma wheels is mandala, lotus, which appear after emptiness.

 

 

 

So now all you know that if we want a whole cultivation, we need to know what the fire is, but not to churn the chi(rice).

 

 

Every cultivation need a lot of time to be well-cooked.

 

Two hours or more are needed.

 

We do not need any methods.

 

What we need is not to let our fire go out to thinking in the big fire stage.

 

This is another big issue.

 

 

 

 

 

Every time We do the cultivation , we cook the chi once.

 

It is called Ying yang.

 

Yang -- big fire , small fire

 

Ying-- stop fire

 

Every cultivation has fire(yang) and no fire(Ying)

 

But the fake dan dao schools misunderstand.

 

They think big fire is yang and small fire is Ying.

 

They do not know what is stop fire.

 

They do not know Ying.

 

When you use methods, you are in Yang.

 

Because you are controling something,

 

Your 識(consciousness)Shen is working.

 

When your consciousness Shen is working, you are in Yang.

 

 

The fake dan dao schools teach you to use methods to control the chi and this control make your Yang too much.

 

You may feel headache.

 

If you do make the chi go circle , your mind will get used to control.

 

And this way may twist your mind and make you become a controller.

 

 

What you learn from the fake dan dao schools not only twist your mind, but it also makes you get the post-heaven chi.

 

 

 

There are three kinds of chi.

 

Post-heaven chi, pre-heaven chi, and pre-heaven real one chi.

 

Post-heaven chi comes from big fire.

 

Pre-heaven chi comes from small fire.

 

Pre-heaven real one chi comes from emptiness.

 

You might ask, what about "stop fire"?

 

After you stop fire, you go into Hun-dun.混沌恍惚渺冥

 

This is another big issue, too.

 

After Hun-dun, the real samadhi appear and the pre-heaven real one chi appear.

 

Mandala lotus, the real full moon, Yang Shen appear in the state- emptiness.

 

Hun-dun is not empty because there are bad chi inside Ying.

 

What we cultivate in Yang bring the Yang chi into Ying to dissolve the Ying chi .

 

After the Ying chi in Ying is all dissolved, Ying become empty.

 

Then we get the emptiness.

 

The pre-heaven real one chi appear.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you all do not be cheated by the fake dan dao schools- wu Liu pai.

 

You do not need to spend a lot of money to learn the fake dan dao.

 

You just need a real teacher.

 

Maybe you do not need any teacher.

 

You just need a friend to tell you the truth.

The best instruction how to see an elephant... Speaking seriously, in all these schema there is no place for a small detail: True Water.

And now what really Wu-Liu Pai teaches about this: 

"Earlier it has already been said about the principle that "if a body does not have a true seed, it will only be like using fire to boil an empty pot", and about its dangers for practitioners.

These practitioners, feeling as "qi moves through the channels Ren and Du", accelerate the process of loss of their own Jing.

This is a way of speeding up the approach of death, it does a lot of harm and has no benefits. It's just a wrong,  a “side-road” method of practice.

Our School of Wu Chung-Xu – Liu Hua-yang  teaches a dual perfection of Xing and Ming, and what is called "heavenly circle" - it is really the "heavenly circle  of the elixir’s way. "

Once a student of the School produces a "true seed", then it will be not  qi but rather the “true water” that will circulate through the Ren and Du Meridians, also the locations of its awareness will be different too.

In the  elixir way these channels are passed using the qi of the Previous sky, in that process of circulation from top to bottom  a "sweet dew" will flow, directly sinking into the lower Dantian, and it happens in reality, not in imagination.

As stated above in "heavenly circle" of qigong, its the external qi that rotates exhausting the body's jing. On the other hand, in the way of the elixir, the heavenly circle leads to longevity, it increases Yuan-jing and Yuan-qi in the body, but the "heavenly circle" of qigong  leads to depletion of the Yuan-jing, leads to death.

Once a student completes the  "elixir seed", a heavenly circle of alchemy starts by itself and will last continuously, collecting the " small medicine", replenishing their own Yuan-jing and Yuan-qi, which has huge benefits and no harm."

As we see, fairy lady was telling bunch of lies based on her misunderstandings of the basic thing in the alchemy. And obviously she never saw any Wu-Liu Pai practitioner. It's another lie.

That's true, you can learn it on your own from books and/or from like-minded friends, then once you've got 幻丹 you'll be confident enough to begin to believe that you can enlight blind people on internet forums and lead them on the true path to an awakening to illusion.

Right. Book worms don't fly, the only elixirs they know are dust of texts they can't read and beetle juice. But we can see a white rabbit from mouthful souls-catchers!

Now if somebody in China want to join my group, they do not have chance to talk to me.

 

My students will lead them first, because I am busy here.

 

So if anyone want to learn the real Dan dao, please take the chance.

Such a drama! 

Yep, there are many people who speaks about knowledge from books about what is true and what is not on basis of readings rather then cultivation which makes no sense. How can you know only by reading what is true and what is false base on your own acceptance and opinion? Most people are ignorant (sorry) so they will accept everything on the basis of ignorance not cultivation. 

But now poor ignorant people here have awaken-mistaken to swallow everything she writes.

Let's thank Heavens to send such a relief to all these people! 

Maybe one day lady will write you why she knows nothing about nudan and has no signs of the progress in it, but so far it's much more interesting to read about hallucinations: white rabbit, mandala, white rabbit, pink elephant... Yangshen that is  nothing but a light spot... Hilarious.

Liu Huayang, a realized man, was so right about such people. Blinds leading blinds.

And let's not to forget to say thank you to Taoist Texts: without his efforts such event couldn't be possible. He prefers when people name him Arhont  Circus is open, kids are welcome! 

ha ha. Lady, learn how to prove your words first, then accuse others in all sins.

Your twists won't cover the lack of knowledge and facts you demonstrated. People are not blind. 

Most of the readers here can't read Chinese , especially classical Chinese,  better be more patient .

 

Besides , to be fair , you have to differentiate  people who claim to be followers of the WuLliu school from what really are expressed by  the Wu and Liu masters in their writings. I think, the significance of WuLiu 's writings is  their emphasize , much serious than others', on the importance of retaining  of jing for  attaining everlasting life , which I wonder whether any  lady here  can fully understand its meaning to us ..  for example , Taomeow  complained that we guys talk too much about this  subject on this forum ,or my being sexist  ,at least as a translator  , when talking about it  :-)

valid point. Awaken doesn't even understand that she mixes up stages of practice like playing cards. But what mostly interesting is that she doesn't realize that women way is different. 27 years and even first stage is not done... Impressive result.

I don't care. For me she looks like new creature of trolls here.

See? How hard was that?

 

These people used to constantly, adamantly and falsely claim that there is absolutely, positively no practical method in the books.

 

Today  they flipped like a flop.

 

Its a Xmas miracle ladies and gents!

if you have troubles to understand something and cannot ask what confuses you, then everything will be a miracle.

Keep learning practical methods from the books, as thousands before.

I said clearly what is in books. But I have touched about 5% of what needs to be known to have a success. There are many difficulties, it's only for you and mistaken-awaken everything is clear.

Hehe, it's a little funny though you have to admit, OpenDao.

 

At first when people asked you about evidence, you said, go and read the texts; the evidence is spoken about in the texts. Now that people have started to point out the mistakes in the text, you conveniently back pedal and say it's not in the texts anymore. 

that's your childish fantasies and inability to read carefully. Texts are still texts, and they are still important. Also it's obvious that there are no mistakes in WLP texts, while Awaken is totally fooled. You cannot see it, because your background is Mantek Chia and qigong, so your opinion is really irrelevant.

 

Here is what Liu Huayang, the founder of Wuliu says:

 

今以浅率之言，将佛宝流传，和盘托出，俾世之学者，睹此慧命经，即若亲口相传，只须励志精勤，不必他山求助，则佛果可以立证

 Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world . As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth. It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy—you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help—and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.../Nicholson/

 

 

So who is lying here out of these two? The Wuliu salesman or the Wuliu founder?

 

The method described in Huimingjing is a correct one, might lead to results as described, but it's not the ancient southern method taught to WLP students, as Awaken mistakenly claimed.

But it's too hard logic for your exhausted brain, I understand.

effi is lost in words a bit...

For others to return to the point:

what are results of the alchemy?

1) ... can be seen when encounter a true Teacher

2) ... can be understood through words

3) ... are easier to see in own life

4) ... cannot be seen, but the effect can last for many thousands years

A Teacher from any alchemy school has to satisfy first 3 items, but #4 has to be in the past of the school as well.

All the answers are in classics. What from this list you can find on your way depends only on you.

Lower Dantien is real after a certain stage of the practice.

Before it's not Dantien, there is no Dan inside ))

How I can hate this school if I know Wu Liu teachers (which probably taught you) and respect your methods like 九阳神功. You guys are spreading rumors about Wu Liu - not me. If you teachers laugh about others schools without respect - they are not sages. You also teach "spontaneous qigong" in your school so why do you try ridicule it? Why do you not go to XYP place and take a challenge? Many people are invited to do so and nobody would appear for sure. If you judge book by it cover you can miss the point. If someone doing Wu Liu Pai yuanqi practices would move similar many people would say too "oh this is just spontaneous practices" This is nonsense - you do not have powers to see which forces actually are moved, you do not see pre-natal energies which are in working in Effi video. (those can be felt though if you focus on that video). but well I do not want get into nonsense, let get to the point please. There is XYP branch in China, but it will not be enclosed, but there is, story behind and everything is similar - but I do not know the situation if they are know each other or not, if they have connection or not. I suppose they are closed doors branch of XYP - but this is my theory not fact because there things happen beyond understanding of regular person as those things go straight from Lao Tzu times.

No proofs, just rumours, and the part about qigong has no sense - WLP doesn't teach spontaneous qigong at all, so what you describe cannot happen in the reality. Any other fantasies you've heard and confused about?

There is, even those in Xiao Yao Pai practitioners who speaks here do not really know or they will not speak about it. Your teacher should know (single yang) the name of chinese branch or teacher of single yang, they know the names but they do not know people and places. This is very deep lineage but you need to do your homework with your teacher to understand why high levels practitioners of Wu Liu and other branches accepts XYP.

I've  checked it already: no traces of XYP, nothing about any interest of WLP practitioners to spontaneous qigong from Indonesia either. All fake and teachers were laughing when I asked that.

If you continue to insist, prove: names, dates etc. Spreading rumours helps no one.

So far you looks like Awaken, are you from the same camp of WLP haters? Then be brave, tell who you are and where you've learnt various garbage about WLP that you're spreading here.

Anonymous murmuring is not that can be respected. If anything you say is confirmed, then I'll write about it. But so far no true words I see.

See, that's the difference. In Xiao Yao you have clarity, achievements, everything out there and in other schools, even long men have clear stages and explanations in classic texts. Playing like that make no sense, if you have no intention of giving - then there is no point of starting any kind of this conversations.

maybe there is no point for you. It's alright. There is a big choice around of more attractive schools with more selling points. Some people are not afraid to research and apply efforts to explore the texts, ask questions, travel, learn, practise. In my opinion, I said enough even in this topic to get initial directions.

Because of how the dao works, being on the inside may also consist of being anywhere at the right time and place to hear what one needs. This is related to the operation of de.

 

Harm may be found in mercy, and mercy may be found in harm, yet without quality of de application of either lacks appropriate timing.

before you attain Dao or De or whatever else result, you need a teacher and a school. It's cool to speak how Dao operates, but it's a very long and challenging way to attain the Way.

What wu Liu said in classics is all wrong.

 

I can not find any reasons to follow the wrong classic school.

 

I prefer to follow the right way, like 悟真篇，修真辨難，參同契，黃庭經 etc.

 

There are so many good and right dan classics to follow.

 

There is no reason to follow the wrong way.

 

 

I know that wu Liu pai make a system to make big money.

 

So that is why I criticize them.

 

They make money and teach the wrong way.

 

It is not a good 修道人should do.

You criticise books and rumours. It's a waste of time and it makes you telling lies.

You learn by books. It's a waste of time and it makes you telling lies.

Real successors of Zhan Boduang School we met, they do not teach what you're writing here, but they teach methods similar to the southern method of Wu-Liu Pai, with some differences, but the idea is the same.

I'm a bit confused here. I remember you saying numerous times how important it is to study ancient neidan texts. And now this notion above - somewhat mixed messages for me.

Good question. Yes, texts are important and I continue to insist on that. But they are important for what? As I told - to find a Teacher. But people are trying to learn from books, practise by books. This way it's impossible to understand the teaching of the ancient alchemy schools, because simply the practical method is not there.

But Huimingjing is a great text for those who is looking for a true Teacher and Teaching. Is it more clear now?

Sorry, I will ask question clearly about goals. There are many scriptures which names different effects and manifestation of xing and ming working, yin and yang etc. and yes alchemy results are hard to phantom as wise sages said so do you mean any concrete scripture which names them and you would say you mean them? It would be easier if you can just name them and explain.

It would be easier, but it would be a wrong thing to do.

We spoke about destiny. It is here.

Who has intuition - will find and I will help if I can.

Whose intent is not serious won't have any ideas what and where to look for, and it's hard to help them except giving some initial practises (Daogong), which can change the situation over time (long time).