opendao

Is that why you did not translate it? Because it is so clear? LOL

 

So basically you accuse WLP founder of lying somewhere. In one paragraph he says teacher not needed in another - that teacher is needed. Which one is a lie?

Yurik, as usually you understood nothing.

Teacher is always needed, while the book can help to be sure in the correctness of the practice.

 

Here is what Liu Huayang, the founder of Wuliu says:

 

今以浅率之言，将佛宝流传，和盘托出，俾世之学者，睹此慧命经，即若亲口相传，只须励志精勤，不必他山求助，则佛果可以立证

 Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world . As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth. It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy—you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help—and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.../Nicholson/

 

 

So who is lying here out of these two? The Wuliu salesman or the Wuliu founder?

 

Arhont (aka Taoist Texts and other names) tells on every corner that teachers are not needed, schools are not needed, and one can learn everything from texts.

To support such position, he quotes the part from Liu Huayang quoted above.

However, what a surprise, Liu Huayang wrote this:

夫时者，即吾身中慧命自动时也。古德谓之活子时，其生之机，形如烈火，壮似焰风，非师传授意，息莫能制伏。

which clearly says about the necessity of the teacher for a specific practice. 

It means that those who cultivate by books, inventing absurd ideas, slandering traditional schools and fool those who are not well versed in the texts - they just cannot read carefully simple phrases.

Effilang, your really lengthy posts cannot be compared to very laconic books of real Teachers... 

People can watch side by side your videos and numerous spontaneous qigong videos on youtube and ask, if they see any difference. 

Those who did not cultivate Yang Shen cannot penetrate deeper into the Dao after their physical body dies, because they did not develop their subtle body (Yang Shen) which is the spiritual vehicle, but only their awareness and wisdom. 

 

Random quote, but shows very clearly the result of neglecting texts and traditional practice.

Yangshen is not a subtle body, and it breaks apart all the long philosophy and argumentation.

I joined many qq groups in mainland china.

for those who are not familiar with the chinese internet, qq groups can be open by anybody, and can teach anything. 

Taking water from a muddy source can lead to a severe poisoning... 

55 天心名曰中黃，居於天之正中，一名天罡，一名斗柄，在天為天心，在人為真意。中宮若失真意，猶如臣失君主矣。凡轉法輪之時，必以真意坐於中宮，而為車軸之心，使爪之運轉矣。

56 依乎任督，

57 凡轉法輪之時，意命必須依乎任督而運行，或意行而命不行，或命行而意不行，則不成舍利矣。

 

Another mistake

 

中黃 (middle yellow ) does not base on 任督，it bases on 三田three dan tian.

 

When you open middle dan tian, you would see a view which is fill with strange yellow light.

 

Three dan is in the middle of body , so call 中

 

I can sure that Liu has no 舍利, because he didn't open middle dan.

 

If he open middle dan, he would know what he wrote in 慧命經 is all wrong.

The response by Dmitry Artemyev, indoor student of the Teacher of Single Yang (Patriarch of Wu-Liu Pai School), my Teacher and the founder of the Daode Centre, officially and legally teaching Wu-Liu Pai methods:

Madame, you even didn't understand what this paragraph is talking about, and you're trying to criticize Liu Huayang without understanding Chinese texts.

Where in this phrases it says that Middle Dantien is based on Ren and Du? )))

You even do not distinguish, that in this chapter the words of Liu Huayang come first, and then an explaining comment.  And you drop everything together in one heap.

Nah, it's an English expression. It's your own fingers (think about pointing your index finger at someone...three of your own curled fingers are literally pointing back at you). It means that any time you insult someone, you're really revealing something about yourself...wise people are able to see their own flaws by observing themselves in this sense.

I know the expression. Try to apply some efforts to understand that it barely can be applied here.

People are interested in the issue.

 

So let's write it down.

Again? You didn't answered on previous lies and demonstrated obvious lack of understanding about the school's methods and texts. 

I do not hope that the Dan dao becomes a merchandise.

 

It is a wisdom of all human.

 

Everyone should have the chance to go a real way.

So far you gave no chance because you left many hard questions unanswered.

Many people pointed to various flaws in your teaching, so before jumping next, try to explain. At least to yourself.

I've never deleted people's questions and always answered them. No need to make stuff up. We're all grown ups here. I've only deleted destructive and venomous posts. That's all : )

this one I couldn't find any answers: 

Well, since you're happy to answer questions, please ask your Chinese-speaking fellow disciples what the name of the document in Baiyunguan we should be looking for is called

(http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/page-10#entry719759)

And a panic mode (with a lot of personal insults by the way, but I got used) about simple lineage and texts questions to other people because you felt "not comfortable"... It's alright, the reasons are clear, just don't tell that I "make stuff up"... At least one my message was deleted, as far as I recall the content was:

"recalibration of the body system of depolarization" - really good definition for spontaneous qigong.

Sure it's very "destructive and venomous post"...

Your story with Flowing Hands also not as nice, but that's your business and you were pointed by other people on that... I really don't care about you, your system and all these questions - you gave people enough information to take own decisions - so I put all this together just to avoid any future misunderstanding because of lack of communications... We all have no time to express fully what we think, and for people out of context it's hard to understand the core...

I really think that giving god mode in threads is a bad idea. I won't use it, it hides the truth not only from readers, but from the owner as well.

We all need to be able to answer non-comfortable questions, even if there is no one who see it.

another perfect example

To an atheist, the idea of Immortal Spirits or even spirits of any kind, is also a "religious" thing - and to the Daoist practitioner who cannot connect to the divine realm to communicate with the immortals, this too is just fantasy.

 

OpenDao has a toxic habit of shaping the world according to his own achievements and promptly rejecting anyone who claims he has experienced things beyond this own experiences. That's also why everyone tries to "kick" him from their threads, because he is like the summer fly that rejects the idea of winter or the fish in the well that denies the grandness of the ocean. It's the sickness of always wanting to be greater than others; nothing but a fools errand.

 

He who claims it cannot be done, should get the hell out of the way of the one that is already doing it.

I won't collect all from Awaken, but I think the idea is clear. People lie and insult, and nobody really cares until somebody replies back... Pointy fingers, point to yourself.

No lies about the alchemy, no facts you don't like. I think it would be fair, but obviously there are a lot of people who are not agreed and will start again.

May be. It does not make any sense but may be. OR. May be they can not be specific because they do not have anything. They just lie that they do but would not go into details because it will be immediately obvious that they are lying. 

 

May be the reason there is no pics and vids of these teachers is because photographs steal their  souls. OR. They look dishonest and inept in those. Imagine learning from someone whose face is his worst enemy.

this is really an example of no insulting policy at taobums and freaking respect to the Taoist tradition.

3 pointy fingers, where are you?

And this guy teaches people. Think about someone paying him for his wisdom.

It's good you recognised yourself. 

I thought however you love old music...

Just 'cause you feel it 

Doesn't mean it's there 

(Someone on your shoulder 

Someone on your shoulder) 

There there! 

 Insults? Which insults? Sure you insulted no one and told only truth and nothing but the truth... Good joke, Arhont.

I'm not going to report opendao for continuing to insult forum members, but I'm going to point it out for him to change it himself.

 

Also, "when you point your finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you".

3 more lying confused people with pointy fingers? Well, people here don't deserve such irrespective things. 

There, there

Why so green and lonely? 

Lonely, lonely? 

May be. It does not make any sense but may be. OR. May be they can not be specific because they do not have anything. They just lie that they do but would not go into details because it will be immediately obvious that they are lying. 

may be one is not an anonymous good guy but just a russian forum troll Arhont Plutaev...

OR. May be the only reason one cannot shut his evil mouth is not because alchemy teachers ask money for the teaching, but just because he was rejected as his character is evil as the darkest hell...

OR. May be it's not he who mistranslated bunch of texts just to attract few poor students who ran away few years later...

May be we can believe it's not true and there are no more maybe... But it's impossible, n'est pas?

Problem is most of us get altitude sickness before we're 1/4 of the way up the mountain and just start building little temples in which to jibber away about the glories of the summit while we're still deep in the cloud layer...

very true.

It does not. There is no proof of that, therefore it is a lie intended to lure the greedy and the scared.

You don't know the alchemy, you don't practice, so you have no proofs.

Apparently you do not know that the modern wu-liuers disown him something fierce, totally denying that he got full transmission, let alone put it into a book. As per usual they dont like the competition. 

pls tell us the size of qianfengpai and wu-lu pai. You love numbers and pretend to know everything. Then we'll both laugh on "competition".

Liao haven't received full transmission, so modern ideas that Zhao inherited fully from Wu-Liu Pai have no support, however they quoted WLP books and used ideas from the texts, so Walker is right in his irony.

It's really very simple. When you make a claim about something, you have to be able to prove it. Talk is cheap.

 

The texts and material evidences that you keep referring people to, which have nothing to do with the results of your own practice or school, because they were written by someone else about their own personal experience, are just excuses for your lack of evidence.

 

And just look at how adamant you are in saying; You CANNOT do it. It CANNOT be done.

 

Well, as the old saying goes...

 

He who claims it cannot be done, should get the hell out of the way of the one that is already doing it.

 

You're absolutely right when you say that Alchemy is not for believers and gossip collectors. - and that's why you have no way to prove your words to others beyond your power to tell people which book to read to give evidence of what you yourself have not achieved.

 

And the only reason I am saying this with confidence right now, is because by saying that certain things CANNOT be done, which CAN and ARE being done, it has fully demonstrated to me just how little you have actually accomplished - but again, it makes sense now, because you can't show any proof can you, OpenDao?

effilang, when in your school at least one student becomes a Xian with Yangshen abilities, we will continue this very respectful conversation.

So far it has no sense, because you even don't know what I'm talking about... You don't read texts, don't learn in any alchemy school, so how you can know, really?

Texts are important because they were written by people who achieved that goals. Some of those people can be met. Some of them teach. How to search, I told. 

I said physical Immortality and miracles of Yangshen are possible and anybody can obtain such proofs, and such results for themselves. I got such proofs for myself and shared my own experience a bit. And it's much further then to just read texts, you're inattentive here or biased intentionally...

You cannot imagine that people can already have own direct experiences with various kind of spirits: own Shen, Yangshen, Yinshen of other persons, demons-Mo, Xian and so on. If people have never even heard about something like this before then your school can probably be surprising. But for those who is looking for Yangshen... all you can offer is a lengthy post that old books are crap because they don't mention your school approach. Which says enough on its own.

edit: fixed the name, it was really unintentional

Heaven mandate is not religious thing, you getting into extremes. It's clear experience like those you have in neidan when you getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form. Those things which we speaks we are speaking (or I'm speaking) straight from measure experiences which anybody can repeat probably the same like you but from different context, the problem is that you think your or the experiences you know are only right but how can you know without practicing in others schools? Did you practice XYP? Did you practice Longmen Pai? Zhen Dao? and others? I do not think, there are many schools which works efficiently. There are even buddhist ming methods in japan but you school things that buddhist lost their ming (which is mostly right). Did you practice or did research or other lineages? did you practices in others streams before?

you are inattentive. I said clearly what and how to check, and it has no relation " getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form".

And I insist that all subjective experiences, visions, encounters with Buddhas - just blind beliefs and hallucinations if there are no alchemy results.

Heavenly mandate cannot be checked by a regular person. So it's a religious belief.

Texts, material evidences, some alchemy results of other people - that's possible to check by a regular person.

This is the difference you don't want to grasp.

Alchemy is not for believers and gossips collectors.

Thats why the millions of qigong practitioners globally are dead by now from their qigong. Oh wait, they are not. It is just a desperately negative advertising. The qigong-ers are fine.

sick logic. Not all qigoners do that. But they are all dead when it's time to die. If you don't know how real Hevenly circle extends life, how you can know how qigoners do their life shorter? Then listen those who know and desperately try to understand why, showing that you have no idea about Neidan's practice.

No. it's make no sense and you fall into his manipulation. Whatever school or not you can use this kind of logic to manipulate people into fake school itself. There is no rule to that. School or no school it does not give more legitimacy to anything. Buddha or other masters didn't create schools, zen masters didn't create schools - only those who wanted to make business (religion) and manipulate people with other masters achievements to get their way to comfortable life. This is logic you can adapt against your argument which means generally the same. So whatever you put this way or that way, school or no school - there is no guarantee on legitimacy no matter how many stories and how much quasi-logic you want to put it in to convince yourself into believing that your school is right. School have sense if it's initiatory school or mystery school when people do not have personal agenda like Xiao Yao Pai as it's from divine mandate which human greed can not penetrate into immortal realm. Regular schools of people are full of vice, greed and other things as religions. Of course there are genuine people as for the rule of yin and yang, when 90% are yin false people there are 10% or 1% that will make thru cultivation. Just do not try convince yourself into something using broken logic like this please. Just see things the way they are - that the best way to be and see things. Human schools are human and have the same flaws as creators which is nothing wrong if you understand it and aware of it. (unless they are straight snake oil sellers)

"Heaven mandate" is exactly a sign, that such school is just a religion. It's a blind belief nobody can prove or disapprove.

Real Tradition doesn't require you to believe in anything. Alchemy schools are not religious by their nature. All facts about lineages can be proven. It creates trust.

What's funny in this thread, is that Awaken and her friends try to say that schools are no needed, but right away she is starting a new awaken-pai. Obviously schools are needed. Face the facts ))

Claiming that Wu-Liu as "fake" is over-stating. On the  whole, WU-Liu's problems is no big ones, of course, you have to differentiate it from its so-called modern followers.

I've heard rumours here about fake Wu-Liu Pai teachers, but seen only one in the chinese internet. So the problem is not big, considering real size of the school.

However I'd like to beware all sincere seekers about such scammers, and remind that it's in your interests to check every single fact multiple times.

There are many ways to reach Tao or Enlightenment ; different ways may give people different subjective feelings, yours is only one of them , so don't say that yours is definitely the right one although capability of reading original Zen or Taoist writings undoubtedly gives you  an  edge over others ,yet it conversely requires you  to behave more cautiously .

I'd say more strict: if someone's way has no proves in obtaining Immortality, and this result was not repeated by many people you know, then there is no possibility to claim that such way is right.

But if there is no Xian last hundred years, then it's possible to say that the school is false to obtain alchemy results. 

By separating truth from false this way, we won't fall into a "trap of authenticity": when some schools have a good lineage, texts with results descriptions, everything looks fine, but no results for thousands years. It means that such school is dead, something important was lost.

All this stuff about lights can be found in the book Taoist Yoga (Charles Luk)

right. It's described in numerous books everybody can find on chinese markets. But there are a lot of difficulties in this method. Also women practice is different. But Awaken thinks she is special and proud she found the true way. What a joke really.

My suggestion to you is that you should apply for a PPF and confine yourself posting therein until you qualify for Owner's Permissions (at which point you could return to this thread and clean it up, if you so wish).

covering crime is another crime.

I saved the thread to local files. All the false accusations presented here, all the absurd theories and mistakes will stay with Awaken (or those who hide behind this name) the entire life and will be publicly available, here or in other places. People have to know the real face of self-proclaimed gurus.

If somebody doesn't want to hear facts, then don't write what you cannot prove. Even on textual level it was shown clearly that Awaken's claims about Wu-Liu Pai teaching have no any support. More was written by Walker here http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42478-learning-from-immortals/?p=723353. 

Other lies about Wu-Liu Pai, how it teaches qigong only or rob people, also have no factual support. 

opendao: you have good knowledge but all you do is start fights. funny way of guarding unity.

I'm not looking for any unity with liers and charlatans as you do. You cannot understand it, and I see no point to explain.