opendao

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Example of equality:

 

When a man needs to pay attention you grab him by the balls.  When I woman needs to pay attention you grab her by the pussy.

it seems you're infected by ttexts 

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

You do not understand the meaning of the term " equality", mistaking it for 'sameness'. In the west  all   siblings are equal before the law, society and their parents. The seniority and gender of siblings does not make them unequal in the west, but very much does so in China.

So he used "equal" in western understanding (very limited, taken form a dictionary, not a real life) to argue the "e-quality" of students of same teacher in China... that's how western readers jump from one thing to another and end up in absurd.

Thanks for another good example (2210th according to taobums stats).

On 5/10/2017 at 4:49 AM, Daeluin said:

 

For me, turning back has its trials,

yet the impulse to turn back is itself natural.

I simply do my best to follow this impulse.

Where the ego fades to virtuosity,

I am surrounded by harmony and synchronicity.

It's a very common understanding of a spiritual cultivation... However, there are Hun and Po souls. That's what people follow naturally with all their efforts... and mountains become volcanoes )) Is there any other way?

in any hierarchy there is something people regard as equal: leaves of different branches are still "leaves".
Students can be equal in the master's house, siblings can be equal for their parents, but your idea "No siblings. Siblings are equal." is very limited. Because there are older brothers and other levels of [family] hierarchy.

Not everything you don't understand is absurd.

Mountains become volcanoes - they are like pimples that shoot things out. I understand the reason for your metaphor, and it is a good one.

 

I like to think of it as merging polarities. The more one progresses, the more strength and will power is required, as in climbing a mountain. However too the more openness and relaxation to contain that strength without causing damage is required, much as in residing deep within a valley of receptivity. Sometimes all together, sometimes each in their own time.

 

I believe that the deeper we go, the more our psychology will influence our path as it becomes more subtle. If we are only able to summon the effort necessary to travel the path by thinking we are climbing a mountain, we also become more easily apt to fall off a cliff as the mountainous path becomes more treacherous.

 

If you search for it with intention, you become attached to phenomenal appearances; if you guard it without intention, you become attached to emptiness.

 

This why, while indeed I see there is a goal, I think a missing teaching is the importance of building harmony into one's foundation. This development of virtue is so important, because it is this that will bear the fruit that help to lift one up as one's path winds those precipices.

In that classic map mountains are not volcanoes (suddenly), and "attaching to emptiness" has no more sense than "attaching to appearances"... What you describe happen usually when practice is based on thoughts, mind, imagination, while goals are limited by those related to Xing cultivation only - in this case no harmony can be.

Interesting perspective.  And it presents the question of:  Why set a goal that is counter to the Way of Dao?

main reason is misunderstanding of what the Way of Dao is.

Dao is like a mountain. There is a summit - the goal, and it's uphill. So it's already raised, just one needs to see it. 

And if one takes course up, then "defense" is necessary. Because without it one rolls down, loosing the direction.

Natural way is the way down. Great Dao is in the opposite. 

No siblings. Siblings are equal. 

only in the imaginary land of flying ponies... 

Interesting.  And I have no intention of disagreeing, however,

 

Some where in the Chuang Tzu I recall a short piece about a commoner and a prince as students in the house of a Master and it is suggested that the students are equals while in the Master's house.

right, and it's important to understand, that their relation in the Master's house is not based on who they were in a previous life.

The first text talk about Dan dao is 周易參同契

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantong_qi

 

If you read this text, you will find it is very different from the Dan dao after Min dynasty.

 

Dan dao was twisted by small dao.

 

many Dan dao texts talk about it.

 

So we need to read the original texts to prevent to be mislead by this small dao. 旁門左道

 

It is not easy for a beginner to distinguish the Dan dao and small dao.

 

You can see I try to tell beginners about it- how to distinguish the small dao. And you can see the small dao school attack me a lot.

you take every question as attack, so no surprise nobody cares to ask anymore...

Small Dao, great Dao - just dodging to cover the differences between own fantasies and words of the ancient teachers.

But obviously you don't care about their words and jumping from one text to another trying to find at least some support. But they all are against "fake dao"...

Speaking about Dan Dao:

Dao as a teaching gives everyone a possibility to make own choices. It's even better if the choice is made with full understanding of its consequences. Such understanding is the core of the Daoist teaching in its written form. Anybody can read it and apply to own life and practice.

Classic texts inform quite good about so-called "side roads" and the Great Dao, which is the inner alchemy.

So we can understand, which goals have no sense to pursuit if your goal is to attain Dao.

Alas, such down-to-earth approach is not popular, and usually we can see something like this:

I am thankful for your effort to advertise Chinese daoism culture.

But if you can listen to a native speaker of Chinese.

You will learn more and misunderstand less of dao.

You can learn from me.

I will tell you what is fake Dan dao and what is true Dan dao.

I am a traditional Dao practicer. And I can read these traditional Chinese old texts directly. I also read a lot of articles and did a lot of practice.

I agree Lui Dongbin, Zhongli Quan, Zhang Boduan is the right apples. But I don't agree that Wu Chongxu, Liu Hauyan are right apples.

They are not the same. Please don't mix their names together.

Sounds very pathetic, but what is really behind all such loud claims? 

All "high level methods" are here:

"I focus on Xiuan guan.

Focusing on

Xiuan guan will relax middle dan tian."

Exactly what Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji named "minor schools and inconsistent methods": 

 

Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan: "Why is Great Dao difficult to understand and realize?"

Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods of minor schools are considered efficient and widely spread among the laity; they are passed from one to another and until death the true awareness does not come; they subsequently become customary and discredit the Great Dao.

These are such methods as:
1. Fasting.
2. Starvation.
3. Gathering of qi.
4. Saliva swallowing.
5. Sexual abstinence.
6. Forgoing tastes.
7. Chan meditation.
8. Silence.
9. Awareness.
10. The Art of the inner chambers.
11. Inhaling much, exhaling little.
12. Maintaining purity.
13. Quieting (thoughts stopping).
14. Avoiding fatigue.
15. Opening of the heads crown.
16. Puckering genitals into ones body.
17. Symptoms disappearance.
18. Canons reading and recitation.
19. Outer alchemy.
20. Breathe restraining.
21. Dao Yin practices.
22. Tu Na gymnastics.
23. Gathering and replenishing.
24. Charity and donations.
25. Sacrifices.
26. Giving help.
27. Retreating into mountains.
28. Innate wisdom (analytical mind).
29. Immobility.
30. Formal maintaining of the teaching lineage.

Its not possible to fully recite all the minor schools and inconsistent methods. 

 

Did she read that? Obviously. Understood? So far she did not. But she allows herself to proudly say: "I agree Lui Dongbin, Zhongli Quan, Zhang Boduan is the right apples"...

Funny of course, for those who understand that it's just another soap bubble, dangerous self invented qigong based on using attention, mind, breathing, movements. Without any program, just "sit and relax"...

But let's people have a choice: towards Dao or enjoying struggling on side roads the entire life, chasing imaginary goals.

When get into the secret door, the breath will disappear.

 

Will feel like whole body breathing

No feeling of breathe.

 

Because your shi Shen disappear.

 

Why you don't know this?

 

it seems shi shen has gone completely through that secret door. 

Such theories don't bring any clarity.

Air breathing is not the alchemy and cannot give any alchemy results like Taixi (Fetus breathing).

clicking Sign Out.

it's an emergency exit, nobody likes it...

See? Thats commercial neidan for you: made up quotes, insults and teacher, teacher, teacher, pay, pay, pay.

Open Dao lol. Open for business. .

 

Except nobody is buying.

not Taoist, and can't read Texts, so who cares about such fantasies...

Farewell to the land of stupid videos and flying ponies.

If it would be easy, you would copy here those parts. But there are no such parts. You are just saying there are.  

 

De is an innate quality, without De people are blind and can't see obvious things.

So "ciao bambino sorry" (Chuck Bismark), go back to bunny videos, stupid pics and trolling memes.

Your goal is attacking people here?

 

Why are you here?

 

Tell everyone you are right?

 

Does anyone here agree you are right?

You told: "But if you can listen to a native speaker of Chinese. You will learn more and misunderstand less of dao."

Assuming I'm full of mistakes. So I'm listening with all my attention. 

But so far just funny attempts to avoid questions. If you are so knowledgeable, if your school is so different from other traditional schools as you told us, then where is the practical wisdom we can admire?

What is a curriculum in your school to begin with?

There is always goal in Daoist practicing.

So what is the first one and what to do to reach it?

you should worry if there are too many worms in your schools. We don't need you to worry about us.

So what to do except worrying? Lesson 1: "worry". Ok, very traditional... What's next?

Btw, thanks to finally accept that you created a school. A few months ago you rejected any idea of a school at all... "Time heals"...

But please continue. I'm all listening to "a native speaker of Chinese" with 27 years of experience...

以小人之心，度君子之腹

 

【拼音】：yǐ xiǎo rén zhī xīn，duó jūn zǐ zhī fù

 

In a small man's heart to guess the belly of a gung Zi.

 

夏蟲不可語冰

 

【拼音】：xià chóng bù kě yǐ yǔ bīng

 

We can't tell the summer worm what is ice.

 

It means we can't let the worm only live in summer know what is ice.

so what do you teach your students to know beyond their current understanding? Any chance for them to stop being worms?

Now, about this broken record

 

"Without texts one can't find a Teacher, without a Teacher one can't understand texts"

 

What does it even mean?

 

How you find teachers with texts? Are there phone directories in them?

And if you can't understand texts without a teacher, how you can find one using texts?

And why would you need to understand texts again after you already found a teacher?

Or, if you understood texts enough to find a teacher through them, what prevents you from understanding the rest of the instructions in the text and dispensing with teachers altogether?

It's very easy: people with low De don't understand such a simple phrase, so they can't find a teacher based on the parts in texts intended for such search. As a result, they have no teacher, who can explain them the advanced part about practices. The exit from this insane infinity is in the beginning, in De, which is an innate quality mostly.

Is the goal to return to the primordial unity of the Dao, or to create and nurture an immortal spirit? Are these fundamentally different goals, or the same thing?

 

if by "primordial unity" we understand a specific state in a human body, then it's one of results on the Way.

To nurture Yangshen, yang spirit, is another result.

Opendao, I appreciate your thoughtful reply, and I welcome all of your little cute jabs at what I know or do not know, what I imply or do not imply. Thank you.

 

My post is largely intended as an invitation to extend the workings of the principles of your map, whatever it may be, into all things, and let your ego disappear. See what happens. I hope and intend to do the same, though I am sure you must be further along than I.

 

Does the practice end with where the map ends? Does the map show all that is possible?

 

Precisely because you are the holder of such a sacred lineage, I am sure you have such incredible potential to work indescribable wizardries that extend far beyond trying to debate rights and wrongs.

 

If you cling to the map, you are limited by the map. The dao exists ever between the lines, making the map full of infinite possibility. Blessings.

Try to think more about the territory than about any map... The territory defines what is wrong and what is right, not the map.

The practice described in a correct map ends where the territory ends.

Dao exists everywhere, but Dao one needs to Dao is not Dao that is everywhere.

So no map can give you more possibilities than there are in reality. 

That's why for Lao Zi his Dao is a broad road, while side curved roads are what dogmatic people love to follow. They can name it as "no rules carefree wandering in true emptiness", but it changes really nothing...

too much dualistic thinking... but consider this:

 

If no goal = goal , then what is the meaning of 'goal' ?     Just this or that, as Zhuangzi says.

 

So, they are both meaningless.  Forget both.   There is Dao... not a goal...

I told "having no goals" is a goal, but you read it as "no goal = goal". Too much abstract thinking.

Someone needs to reach their goals and have an agenda too bad that does not work with the greatest mystery of all.

 

True Emptiness is not empty it contains all things.

 

How do we penetrate the mystery? We can not, we are the mystery. 

there are no any reasons to pursuit such an artificial goal, so you're right, it won't work.

Goals are not made by students, they are set by teachers who reached that goals already.

It's like somebody on top of a mountain guiding those lost in forests of words, how to climb up... 

First step from which teaching?

Awaken's.

If we are going to compare maps, can we agree there are different routes that come from different places? I've heard you criticize the secret of the golden flower method, and admit that you do not understand what it does. Does avoiding side paths really mean there is only one map one can use to walk the main path?

there is only one correct map of the territory.

There are different starting points, but the general Way will be the same.

It's because the territory dictates the possibilities, not one's free will or desire.

Human body defines all possibilities to practice.

Let's not start speaking about Golden Flower, because I admitted you have very little idea on what it teaches. 

And the book is correct, who I am to criticize it...

The xingming guizhi says:

 

For in regard to the Three Passes: those who from doing enter non-doing [practice] the gradual method; those who cultivate the Upper Pass concurrently with the lower two passes [practice] the sudden method. As for those who directly refine the spirit and return to the Void, at the critical moment when the Work arrives at the Void, the extremity of quiescence, essence transforms into qi of itself, qi transforms into spirit of itself, meaning Gatemaster Yin’s principles on forgetting essence and spirit and transcending life.

 

Do you understand each of these ways and their steps?

this book is not what I would recommend to understand the differences between various correct methods of the elixir. 

To explain. External alchemy looks very different from Neidan, but it follows the same principles, has the same goals and milestone results.

BTW, did you hear Wu Ming Jing say there is no goal? Are we not allowed to steep ourselves in emptiness without fretting about goals or no goals?

You're allowed to do anything and walk any roads you may like. Just remember about possible consequences...

But "stepping into emptiness" is a goal on its own, and it needs your will and understanding what to do. 

You confuse the fruit with a sprout. Having no goals when wu-wei is reached and in the beginning of study.

Do you believe that comprehending unity has no relation to being unified and harmonious within all things?

It has a relation but not as you describe it. Unity inside is a harmony on its own. Unity inside is a unity of Xing and Ming, it's not the unity with all things. 

Do you now the secret meanings of dao de jing chapter 24 (tl Lui Ming):

 

What is strenuous cannot be sustained.

 

Self-confidence dulls the mind.

Self-justification discredits the speaker.

Self-assertion squanders resources.

Bragging achieves nothing.

 

Such qi-squandering conduct reminds Adepts

To shun the superfluous and redundant.

 

Do you take these as admonitions, or statements of truth?

You see things one way, but Dao can have different opinion.

It's noon so I have a lot of questions. I don't need answers.

I think others might be more consistent in reaching out their goals   

A poem from Lu don bin

 

舉世盡皆尋此道

 

People All the world are looking for the way(dao)

 

誰人空裡得玄關，

 

Who can get the secret gate (in the emptiness)

 

明明道在堪消息

 

It is very clear that dao is right there（can be easily seen by the messages around us)

 

日日灘頭去又還

 

Just like the coast go and back

 

Ha, try to use my poor English to translate like a poem too.

It's very abstract, while goals in Dao are very practical and precise.

If you pretend to know and teach openly for free, then what is the first practical step?