asunthatneversets

If one is to teach the Dharma scientifically, then much of the belief systems and superstitions need to be jettisoned immediately.

Or one can avoid being literal-minded and simply relate to such systems as the provisional and conventional devices they are.

A proper scientific methodology is a stepwise process such that the process is exact and anyone can duplicate it.

Much like the buddhadharma.

Honestly I don't see that in the Buddhadharma.

Clearly.

As far as the Tibetan medicine goes, I believe there has been very little scientific research if any as as to the efficacy of such a system that still retains techniques that are from the medieval period.

Traditional Tibetan Medicine is a centuries old system with great value, it has its strengths and weaknesses just like Western Medicine does. One would be unwise to sell it short.

Is a soul something that actually departs from you?

 

What would cause it to depart?

"Soul" is his translation of "Lha", it means something like "life force". The lha can be lost if one's energy is incredibly compromised, it is usually a gradual process.

Can you explain why?

He authored a thread titled "The most direct training practice in dzogchen" containing what could be very loosely referred to as a 'training practice' he, himself made up.

That fact in itself should be an adequate explanation, meaning; it should be self-explanatory. If his actions in that regard don't strike you as problematic, then you are either (i) looking to be rebellious and contrary out of spite, (ii) are exceedingly dumb, or (iii) have no clue in hell what Dzogpachenpo is.

Since ralis, you are neither dumb, nor ignorant of what Atiyoga is, any show of support for Zoom's asinine display of reckless arrogance in authoring that post must fall in line with option (i).

Come to your own conclusion:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35799-the-most-direct-training-practice-in-dzogchen/?p=568658

In order for anyone to come to a conclusion that you have any real comprehension of Dzogchen based on that link, said link would first have to contain something even remotely related to Dzogchen... but it doesn't.

Anyone can put a piece of coal on display and proclaim it is gold.

As there are no reports of western Dzogchen students achieving rainbow body.

Overall you don't really seem to understand what rainbow body means or entails... So please continue running around looking for shrinking bodies and declaring ja lus hasn't occurred where you don't find any.

In Dzogchen, the proof of enlightenment is the rainbow body achievement.

Not true at all.

 

Obviously you have a wrong assumption there.

 

counter evidence:

 

Some teachers request that these things be broadcasted in order to incite faith, devotion etc., the fact that this event was announced and documented is not counter evidence of anything.

Before one of the western outdoor official Dzogchen guru students will achieve rainbow body,

one of Jackson Peterson's students will!

Priceless.

There are a number of very good discussions regarding Dzogchen here on TTB in the Buddhist section.

Perhaps buried somewhere deep in the Buddhist section... but certainly not recently.

Why copy/paste as per your usual motive? That is just tabloid BS and has nothing to do with a Buddhist discussion. Is this guy special because he is Trungpa's son? Thousands have died in West Africa, who are not Buddhists.

Give ralis a shred of an opportunity to cast aspersions and rock the boat, and thou shalt receive aspersions and boat rocking.

A lot of people are being infected in Liberia and West Africa. Why is most of this story so fascinating in regard to whoever slept with whoever and a reincarnated Tulku having something to do with Ebola?

 

The Dailymail is a tabloid that sensationalizes stories as opposed to professional journalism.

Yes, many in West Africa are suffering and it is tragic. Why would this specific incident get attention? I'm sure some simply find it interesting that one of the few westerners to contract the disease (during this current outbreak) thus far is a practitioner of the buddhadharma with some degree of an intriguing history (being that his father is the late Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche), etc. This is a forum titled "Buddhist Discussion" after all.

The "whoever slept with whoever" verbiage was copied and pasted from the article, so perhaps you can email the dailymail and ask them why that aspect of the story is interesting if you are so worried about it. Really you most likely are just looking to kick up dust, per usual, so if that is the case you can cry about the article all you want, ralis.

This thread... what a mess. A word to the wise - take what is being shared with a grain of salt.

 

What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Just remember, ralis... let the hate flow through you. Not over, under or to the sides, but directly through, per Darth Sidious.

After Tibetan_Ice returns from slaughtering all of the Malcolmites...

Perhaps one should examine one's own nose before casting boogers?

 

Malcolm banned at dharmawheel...

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1038&hilit=Legal+action&start=0

 

Threat of legal action from DW...

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1754

He was banned for a day, quite some time ago... and that threat of legal action from dharmawheel is not directed at Malcolm, so I'm not sure how or why that is relevant.

You do realize that Vajracakra was created in response to issues with dharmawheel, yes? While I personally stay out of the whole thing, there are many who are not happy with the management and moderation tactics at dharmawheel.

I've seen it time and time again. That group of Malcolmites will even disavow CN Norbu's books and writings simply because they contain a quote from Ramana. Case in point: The Marvelous Primordial State.

 

You shouldn't reduce spiritual discovery to a sham of "unless you're in our club you are all wrong".

To be fair, Elio Guarisco said the Ramana Maharshi quote in the epigraph was entirely his own idea and he did not approve it with anyone (including ChNN) prior to putting it in the book. He said it was a mistake and most likely will not be in the second editions when they repress.

No, he pushes out an arrogance and the message that you have to be a scholar in order to really understand the texts. Like he is the only person capable of understanding texts. You don't understand texts by throwing more intellectual knowledge at them, you understand texts through practices and experiences.

 

Malcolm is pushing and selling the idea that only the chosen few are capable of understanding the texts, when in reality, it is the mind which is not capable of understanding. It is not the tao bums who serve as an example of lost sheep in the land of ignorance, it is the mind. The mind isn't going to save you, it is experience that will. And there is no shortage of minds on vajracakra either. There are just as many, if not more ignorant minds on the vajracakra forum as there are on Dharmawheel or any other forum. Only, by positing his finger at TTB's, he is also stating that that there is no savior, no grasping scholar here to point out the real meaning behind the words of the texts.

 

You don't need the ability to translate Tibetan in order to know what the texts are saying. There do exist very intelligent PHD's like Alan Wallace whom have already rendered texts, secret or otherwise, into understandable concepts. And the concepts become even more clear when coupled with practical experiences. Tenzin Namdak and Tenzin Wangyal also tell it like it is, don't hide secrets and do a marvelous job of explaining concepts and practices. And what's more, they will even publish their experiences in books, like Tenzin Wangyal did, of his dark thogal retreat.

 

Malcolm's attack on TTB's is one of the reasons why vajracakra and dharmawheel members visit this forum and push their "you are wrong because you don't use the same terminology that Malcolm uses" attitude.

 

I've seen it time and time again. That group of Malcolmites will even disavow CN Norbu's books and writings simply because they contain a quote from Ramana. Case in point: The Marvelous Primordial State.

 

You shouldn't reduce spiritual discovery to a sham of "unless you're in our club you are all wrong".

 

Further, Malcolm, although quite intelligent and linguistically blessed, is not capable of realizing what other people truly understand by reading their posts. Anyone who spouts off blanket statements is in fact exposing their own ignorance and building sand castles of conjecture.

 

The problem with the intellect is that it is always at odds with the heart, and anyone who pushes the intellect and intellectual knowledge does so at the detriment of the heart. Once you experience primordial wisdom you will understand the pitiful minuscule conceptual mind's frailty and you will wonder how you could have ever let it self inflate to such a degree. (Pun intended)

 

What is "resting in the view"?

What does that mean?

Resting in one's knowledge of primordial wisdom, is the view [lta ba].

Padmasambhava's "Natural Liberation" states that one does not cultivate a view..

It cannot be cultivated, only recognized.

The only "view" presented is not an intellectual view, but a practice. The practice of observing primordial wisdom.

Precisely.

It also states that this is not about maintaining a view of emptiness, nor any form of conceptual view, for those types of views dissolve.

Emptiness is not a conceptual view one can hold but rather is the pacification of views. That pacification is then 'the view'.

So what exactly are you saying when you say that these meditators are "resting in the view".

They have a direct experiential knowledge of their nature.

If these practitioners are familiar with generation and completion stages then it wouldn't matter whether they had their eyes open or closed. Methods which use the channels you mentioned are specific practices done for a specific purpose, these practitioners wouldn't be implementing those methods in this type of situation anyway. Overall, for seasoned practitioners it doesn't matter if the eyes are open or closed, they can rest in the view either way.

It is too bad that they told the vajrayana practitioners to close their eyes for their meditation sessions... It almost invalidates the whole study.

Generation stage [bskyed rim] practice is done with eyes closed so the study shouldn't be invalidated.

Allegedly related to the fact that the Chinese government has announced that they will have sole authority over approval of the next Dalai Lama. So possibly a smart move on HHDL's part, he is clearly looking to thwart potential conflict which could arise as a result of controversy over who the authentic Dalai Lama is once the Chinese government has proclaimed a successor. China's govt. would no doubt love the controversy and contention which would result from two contending Dalai Lamas.

 

Once again you come on this thread with nothing of substance to add.

Hard to add substance where none can be found to begin with.

And what does any of this have to do with Dzogchen? Oh that's right... nothing.

All this thread has accomplished is demonstrating that unqualified individuals can parade erratic theories (which speak volumes about ther general incompetence) as somehow valid, and some people will fall for it.

you cant even tell when I'm agreeing with you and when I'm not

I wouldn't worry about it, it is literally a bunch of complete nonsense that isn't related to Dzogpachenpo in any way whatsoever.