safi

If the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits eschews a life of physical detachment completely devoid of your so-called "healthy relationships" as the ideal method of spiritual attainment, then I don't see why a common man like you who had not even attain any semblance of spiritual achievements should think that your advice is much better than the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits of asia.

 

People tend to ignore advice that they don't like no matter how correct it is. You see it on this forum all the time. What traditional religions advocate is total dispassion. Now, naturally not all people are ready for this, which is why we should be careful how and where to preach. For instance I wouldn't advocate dispassion to random people on a pop culture forum, but this is a religious forum which focuses mainly on Taoism. The first verse of the Tao Teh Ching, the most important Taoist text says:

 

 

"The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.

 

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

 

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.

 

The name is the mother of the ten thousand things.

 

Send your desires away and you will see the mystery.

 

Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation.

 

As these two come forth they differ in name.

 

Yet at their source they are the same.

 

This source is called a mystery"

 

 

And there are other verses which speak against desires, including the one in my signature.

I don't think I would dare to have sexual relationships or even close contact with any human on this planet, but especially women.

 

I remember a master tell me that women in general have worse karma than men. Think how a woman suffer in this life for a moment. The pains of pregnancies, the pains of PMS, the pains of having to lower themsevles by using sex to lure men to do their bidding for them.

 

What you say may be true, but you should focus on yourself rather than women. If you constantly think about avoiding them you might develop hatred for them which will only make it worse. Lust and hatred are partners and you can't completely defeat one without defeating the other.

 

Remember that the problem comes from within not from outside. Once you master yourself it won't make a difference even if you were to be surrounded by several scantily clad prostitutes.

 

Aim for that state.

Scientists look outside of themselves for answers rather than within. That's the mistake.

 

 

I've seen this post and the other one too. I wasn't going to comment on them so there's no need to delete them. Wouldn't it be better if you restrain yourself instead of posting something and then deleting it? It can confuse readers and some people (such as myself, in this case) will see it before you delete it, so it is futile.

From the same Upanishad:

 

"When all the desires that dwell in the heart fall away, then the mortal becomes immortal and here attains Brahman."

Well it could be. I thought you were referring to the plant.

Trefoil a representitive of "three knots"? perhaps?

 

What do you mean?

...

 

Mara sounds very much like Satan.

 

There are some similiarities... Mara is a tempter. There are a lot of similarities between religions.

I got a question for all my fellow Tao lovers. Lao tzu spoke frequently of detachment and not wanting or desiring. Based on that, do you think it's wise for a Taoist or anyone for that matter to fal

In love or get married? It seems to me that relationships of intamacy always end in heartbreak one way or the other.

 

Yes, if you were to read all these ancient religious texts carefully you would come to the conclusion that what they're really advocating is dispassion.

...

Just to clarify something. This is part of the dialogue and not all of it and I copied it from a book by Sivananda not from the direct source. I searched for the original text and I found one that was worded a little differently but they're both good.

 

 

 

I am using this. rolling out with it. may i copy it and use it in the future? I hope to gently assist closed eyes opened...

 

Sure. It's Schopenhauer's not mine. I liked it a lot as well and that's why I'm sharing it.

Here is part of the very interesting dialogue on immortality by Schopenhauer. Deep down this is basically what all traditional religions teach.

 

 

Student

 

—Look here, I shalln’t give two pence for your immortality unless I’m to remain an

individual.

 

 

Philosopher

 

—Well, perhaps I may be able to satisfy you on this point. Suppose I guarantee

you that after death you shall remain an individual but only on condition that you first spend three

months of complete unconsciousness.

 

 

Student

 

—I shall have no objection to that.

 

 

Philosopher

 

—But, remember, if people are completely unconscious, they take no account

of time. So, when you are dead, it’s all the same to you whether three months pass in the world of

unconsciousness, or ten thousand years. In one case as in the other, it is simply a matter of believing

what is told you, when awake. So far then you can afford to be indifferent whether it is three months

or ten thousand years that pass before you recover your individuality.

 

 

Student

 

—Yes; if it comes to that, I suppose you are right.

 

 

Philosopher

 

—And if by chance, after those ten thousand years gone by, no one ever thinks

of awakening you, I fancy it would be a great misfortune. You would have become quite

accustomed to non-existence after so long a spell of it—following upon such a very few years of

life. At any rate you may be sure you would be perfectly ignorant of the whole thing. Further, if you

knew that the mysterious power which keeps you in your present state of life had never once ceased

in those ten thousand years to bring forth other phenomena like yourself, and to endow them with

life, it would fully console you.

 

 

Student

 

—Indeed! So you think that you’re quietly going to do me out of my individuality

with all this fine talk. But I’m open to your tricks. I tell you I won’t exist unless I can have my

individuality, I’m not going to put off with ‘mysterious powers’, and what you call ‘phenomena’ I

can’t do without my individuality, and I won’t give up.

 

 

Philosopher

 

—You mean, I suppose, that your individuality is such a delightful thing—so

splendid, so perfect, and beyond comparison—that you can’t imagine anything better. Aren’t you

ready to exchange your present state for one which if we can judge by what is told us, may possibly

be superior and more endurable.

 

 

Student

 

—Don’t you see that my individuality, be it what it may, is my very self? To me it is

the most important thing in the world.

“For God is God and I am I”.

I want to exist, I, I. That’s the main thing. I don’t care about existence which has to be

proved to be mine before I can believe it.

 

 

Philosopher

 

—Think what you’re doing. When you say, I, I, I want to exist, is it not you

alone that say this? Everything says it, absolutely everything that has the faintest trace of

consciousness. It follows then, that this desire of yours is just the part of you that is not

individual—the part that is common to all things without distinction. It is the cry not of the

individual, but of existence itself; it is the intrinsic element in everything that exists, nay, it is the

cause of anything existing at all. This desire craves for and so is satisfied with nothing less than

existence in general—not any definite individual existence.

 

No! that is not its aim. It seems to be so only because this desire will attain consciousness only

in the individual, and therefore looks as though it were concerned with nothing but the

individual. There lies the illusion, an illusion it is true, in which the individual is held fast,

but if he reflects, he can break the fetters and set himself free. It is only indirectly, I say,

that the individual has this violent craving for existence. It is the will to live which is the real

and direct aspirant—alike and identical in all things. Since then, existence is the free work,

nay, the mere reflection of the will; where existence is, there too must be a will; and for the

moment, the will finds its satisfaction in existence itself, so far, I mean, as that which never

rests, but presses forward eternally, can ever find any satisfaction at all.

 

The will is careless of the individual, the individual is not its business; although I have said, this

seems to be the case, because the individual has no direct consciousness of will except in

himself. The effect of this is to make the individual careful to maintain his own existence; and

if this were not so, there would be no surety of preservation of species. From all this it is clear

that individuality is not a form of perfection, but rather of limitation; and so to be freed from it

is not loss but gain. Trouble yourself no more about the matter. Once thoroughly recognise

what you are, what your existence really is, namely, the universal Will-to-live, and the

whole question will seem to you childish and most ridiculous.

Also, to the people who believe that circumcision is somehow beneficial. If it really was beneficial, then how come in other advanced countries in Europe and Asia you don't hear about the benefits? If you ask doctors in most of Europe, they'll tell you that circumcision is not beneficial, but American doctors do. They're parroting what the medical establishment in their country claims. Normally I encourage people to do their own research but in this case, common sense is all that's necessary.

What's so great about the foreskin?

 

It's the most pleasureable part in the man's body.

 

Men get most pleasure from sex when the foreskin rubs against the glans and shaft when fully erect. It is not surprising considering how many nerves the foreskin has and how sensitive the foreskin is.

 

Circumcised people get nowhere near the pleasure that normal people get from sex.

 

But that's not all... the glans is supposed to be covered by the foreskin and kept wet. When circumcised, the glans, due to not being covered by the foreskin, being always dry and making frequent contact with underwear will start losing its sensitivity over time, so the pleasure will lessen even more.

 

Also, as far as I know most circumcised men have trouble having sex properly without lube. A normal man doesn't need lube to function properly due to the foreskin.

 

Circumcision is one of the perfect reasons not to trust the modern medical establishment completely. The notion that circumcision is somehow beneficial for health is absurd. And yes, I have already read the articles which claim that circumcision is beneficial, so don't bother directing me to them.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Truly though, increased sexual pleasure isn't the reason I believe it shouldn't be done. Men are born with the foreskin for a reason. That's how the penis naturally is and that's how it should be left. If you want to cut body parts you might as well cut a piece of your ear, or a nipple if you're a man. They're actually less damaging to a man than circumcision.

...

.

...

...

...

Good post White wolf. You posted a video about liberal hypocrisy. Perhaps the most hypocritical thing which is frequently said in these so called "liberal" circles is the phrase "we are animals". They say this to justify things such as licentious behaviour and lack of control in general.

 

Funny thing is that these same people believe in human rights, protecting the weak, democracy, gender equality etc... Where do you see this in nature? If we truly are animals then rape, murder and discrimination are also acceptable.

 

Anything goes in nature... Survival of the fittest! So I would be careful about labeling humans as animals.

The teachings of Christianity are the same as the teachings of the eastern religions. If you would actually read the texts of traditional religions you would find out that the teachings, or better yet, the essence of the teachings, is the same. They point to the same "thing". It is the "common" people who misinterpret the teachings, most of the time on purpose to suit their needs.

 

An article I once read claimed that Jesus is the most famous person in history. I say he's the most misunderstood person in history!

You can learn a lot of interesting things from etymology.

 

On this subject of pharmacy... most people wouldn't need to swallow pills and suffer from side effects if they had a bit of self-control and took care of their health. The quote below by the dalai lama is quite good.

 

When will you realize that all systems can be good if there's no corruption?

People are susceptible to corruption, thus all systems with people in it can be corrupted.

Very few systems - those developed by genius - are inherently corruption-resistant.

 

Small government is a solution. Small government is not a solution.

 

Great post.

 

Yeah, It's quite funny watching these right wingers and left wingers go at it. I say no system is corruption-resistant. Most people are easily corrupted so how can one expect a society without corruption?