Antares

On 18.03.2023 at 11:30 PM, Lairg said:

On the highway, being a simple drive, the intelligence of my sacral chakra (LDT) took over, while my mind wandered.

 

If one has sacral chakra it does not mean one has LDT. Chakras dont play a big role in daoist neidan. I mean they dont pay much attention to chakras but they give more attention to 8 extraordinary channels.

Some methods in Indian system can be good to work with heart-mind. There are good Xing masters in India these days. But they dont have Ming methods at least in what is publicly known. These methods can help to quiet the heart-mind but they can cause the adverse effects on the energetic system and I would be careful with such methods. There are some shamanic methods which work with chakras and they can give some abilities but it has no relation to neidan or real nei kung    

2 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

Can you explain the location of false and real dantian ( lower)

The false one has no location because it is not dantien for there is no elixir. People think that they have built it but this is just water/fire channels harmonization. Good for health and balance though. The true one' location is between navel and ming men. 

12 hours ago, Blissdao9 said:

You have misunderstood. The "body and energy system" is constant. I did not imply that different systems should be mixed. All I said is that they are related. Learning from one system, Indian for example, and its fundamentals can bring greater understanding of the human system as a whole. Greater comprehension can then be utilized for training in another system. 

Yes, they are constant. But I did not see the correct channels description in Indian system. And they work differently with them from the very beginning. I mean Indian system does not imply correct practical routine of transformation and even in building the LDT. And i totally disagree with their methods that they offer these days. I dont know how it was in the far past  but I did not see the term of Kundalini in Patanjali sutras for example. In a work of Indian yogi of 10th century I could find the term of Kundalini but it has different meaning than they put forward now. More over that they practical aspects are quite doubtful and even harmful. That's why I dont see a reason to take something from their system and apply to practice. In general this is a typical mistake of many beginners to mix systems and theories. It is not desirableto practise more than one sytem even within Daoist system but yo want to mix theories of both systems. It is better to undesrtand one system at first but it must be authentic system of course. The contemporary yoga system is not authentic. Period

On 17.03.2023 at 1:24 PM, Lairg said:

There is a vortex of elemental energy - therefore intelligent - that coordinates the internal functioning of that energy body (e.g. etheric, emotional, lower mental)

 

The vortex typically is used by a lesser deva (nature spirit) to achieve external functions e.g. search for food

And how does your energy body adopt that elemental energy? Why it needs spirits for that? 

9 minutes ago, Gerard said:

"...rigorous approach to training with a heavy emphasis on developing extraordinary lower leg strength."

Yes, legs strength is very important but it can be just physical strengthening so it depends on details of training. Bagua is quite alchemical system though. It is not only about legs training I would say   

1 hour ago, EFreethought said:

 

One of my instructors said that people do not start out w/dan tiens, but that we create them by doing qigong/meditation.

 

Qigong can create "false dantien" only. That only means that some postheaven channels would work better. and this may produce some sensations but this is not real dantien.  

3 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

That is not my experience across quite a number of humans

 

And what is the chakra in your experience?

10 hours ago, Blissdao9 said:

I would disagree with you on that Chakras have no relations to the dantian. Although they are terminology from different systems, they are two different ways of looking at the same internal system. For example, The manipakura when unlocked can draw in energy; it is also the energy center of the entire system. One of the dantian functions is to store and refine energies for the system as a gathering point. 

 

It is not the same internal system. We all have channels but Indian and Chinese systems look differently at it. And this is not good idea to mix them. The dantien means "the field of elixir" and this is not the manipura chakra. Chakra is just a spot where channels intersect and the state of chakra depends on the state of channels. That's all. But what is "elixir" in Indian system and what is "field"? They have not only different terminology but their approaches differ. Indian system has been corrupted greatly so I would not use its terminology at all.   It is just pointless 

10 hours ago, Blissdao9 said:

1. I offer no methods. I only seek to discuss the nature of things.

2. I do not suggest that these qualities are missing from within us. In fact, I stated that we simply need to come in touch with these qualities. In many cases of societies today, people have lost touch with the intricacies within. Hence, this post intended to bring attention to these particular qualities.

Alright, but you should be more precise about your ideas of how to nurture these qualities. We need to consider such notions as xin and Xing, what is the mind, what is the Spirit and where  stillness and All-inclusiveness come from, how to nurture these qualities. I agree with you that we all have it already within us but the matter is in real quality of it. But many people who read DDJ for example, think that one needs just to relax and flow (or follow) with Dao and these qualities you are talking about will just reveal themselves. That what I disagree with. But partially I agree with you since we should cultivate these qualities within us. But without certain methods it wont work and I wanted to stress the importance of correct methods at the "laying the foundation" stage

22 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

 

脈輪 mài lún - chakra  

 

and what's next should one do? Concentration, visualization, mantek chia breath methods... right?

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.

― Mark Twain

Ok, Mark Twain knows better than daoists know about energy cultivation. It is better to quote daoist texts about chakras and so on. BTW what is daoist term for "chakra"? The trouble is that some people mix not only theories, but sometime they mix systems and methods... Then they invent their own "sytems", and running  with  their made up theories and methods spreading them as some revelation. 

20 minutes ago, Lairg said:

The more heart-light I give to my chakras including the sacral chakra (lower dan tien) the happier they are and the  more life force they naturally acquire.

Chakras have no relation to dantien. All people have chakras but a minor amount of them have LDT. Also ordinary people dont have LDT. It must be cultivated. And this is not a psychological trick or anything of this sort. One cant get it just with intent or by practising celibacy. But celibacy helps to keep heart-mind more centered and balanced. That' true. This is just preriquisite for building the foundation stage.

20 minutes ago, Lairg said:

If life force is low, it is possible to breathe in life force (chi) into particular organs (e.g. kidneys), leaving the life there on the out-breath.  After a while the intelligence of the physical body (lower dan tien)  performs the exercise without needing any mental attention.

This is post heaven qi you breath in. No real dantien, no transformation here. But it might be good for general health support.  

49 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Quite so.  Fortunately I can control my energy bodies without suppression.

How does it transform you jing? Just wonder

20 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Lots of people can control those.    Dieting is a great hobby.    And some give up sex in the hope of spiritual advancement

 

I was celibate for more than a year with no erections.   Eventually I understood that close relationships with women was part of my work

 

The control is not mental.  It is control of physical and emotional energies

 

Suppression is not the solution. In the most cases it can lead to deviations. You can save the energy but get the mental or psychological issues. I would disagree that this would be a real control. Dieting can help to reduce the yuan qi loss and assist the general health promotion but it wont make you immortal. You can live long but finally...

8 hours ago, Blissdao9 said:

Interesting, can you elaborate what is my method?

I dont know your method but it sounds like new age approach. That means a method which one thinks should work but it is not real attainment. But I personally understand what you are talking about but I just disagree with it. Also any authentic daoist will disagree with this too. Read the article below: 

Quote

At the stage of ☞ "laying the foundations," there are differences of initial conditions, age, and physical constitution. The practices, therefore, differ according to each individual. With regard to this point, the alchemical texts distinguish between "superior virtue" (shangde) and "inferior virtue" (xiade). "Superior virtue" refers to childhood and young age; "inferior virtue" refers to adulthood and old age.

According to the principles of alchemy, at a young age the human body grows like a young sprout. Borrowing a term from the Daode jing (Book of the Way and its Virtue), this is called "superior virtue." Spirit and Breath are abundant, and there is no need of performing any practice to build the foundations. After growth and maturity, Essence, Breath, and Spirit become consumed and should be replenished. In the alchemical practice, this is referred to as "inferior virtue": one must provide what is missing.

An alchemical poem says:

"Superior virtue has no doing," and you enter the practice of Xing (Nature):
is there any need of repairing or harmonizing what is damaged or full?

The Cantong qi says:

"Superior virtue has no doing":
it does not use examining and seeking.
"Inferior virtue does":
its operation does not rest.

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/wm_shangde_xiade.html

So what you sugget is non doing but having inferior virture. This does not work this way. New Age authors who publish books these days suggest such methods. But these are just wrong methods which wont work for anyone without authentic daoist cultivation for "building the foundation". Building the foundation is the first important step in daoist internal arts which one cant skip and it implies very specific methods and internal transformations (of energy)  

12 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

First control the physical desires.

 

Then control the emotional desires

 

Then control the thoughts.

 

At that point the human persona (mask) can be still.

 

In that stillness of the persona, the Cosmos can manifest Itself in the human heart.

 

 

Can you control the hunger? Or sexual desire? If you happen to fall in love with somebody can you control your feelings by your intent?

They say immortals can live without food and even not to feel pain (it might be, not sure tought)... so you believe that ordinary person may have the same control over it just by mental control? If not what is the difference between an immortal and ordinary human beign?

35 minutes ago, Blissdao9 said:

These qualities are already within everyone of us. We just need to find and nurture them.

This is new age approach. These qualities must be cultivated. The method you are talking about is not the daoist approach. Daoist consider such methods to be wrong methods. 

But what is your method to attain the "Stillness, Emptiness, and All-Inclusiveness"?

20 minutes ago, Cobie said:

丹田 

But this means "elixir" and "field". Nothing in common with contempoarary chakra ideas. 

9 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Originally the Hindu chakra system had only 3 chakras (the primary colours). 

I have never heard about it. Can you give the link for this source where you got this information?

3 minutes ago, Conradom said:

Yang!

Yang style is very simplified one. But it may be good for health promotion. There is no neidan in it these days. Better to look somewhere else if you are really interested in "internal arts"

These ones are not chakras. For example, what "dan tien" means? What chakra does it relate to?

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I know that they spend time in darkness to learn to open the psychic centers to begin to see primordial light. Then there're practices to store that light and feed the immortial embrio etc.

Alright. May be he teaches "northern" daoist path now. He is always looking practices from authentic schools trying to adopt it to his own goals. I can't say that everything he teaches these days is wrong, but from what i have seen in his books  were completely wrong methods

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I believe in his method of creating an immortial embrio

Alright. It is good to believe something. Christians, muslim people believe in immortallity too. But may be your case is different. 

I only wonder how you create "immortal fetus" by work with imagination? How does it work with preheaven qi? 

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

It need not be authentic, it just has to be legit for all i care.

Legit for whom? How many immortals this "legit" method produced? And what is the goal of the daoist arts in your opinion?