stefos

Also known as Kinkara - associated with Mother Tantra.

 

"The dancing, grinning skeletons ... express a dynamic vision of death and change, viewed as an estatic dance of transformation, unchanging inner essence transcending the constant mutations of externals. Meditation on the impermanence of all phenomena should lead to a joyful freedom from attachment, and not to a morbid pessimism." [Taken from 'The Crystal and the Way of Light'.]

Hi Rex,

Now THAT was a cool post.

Thank you sir.

Jesus loves you...he really does..... read The Gospel of John

Stefos

Hi Wallum,

No sir......I haven't personally seen many healings but I was delievered from demonic oppression.

Does that count by proxy? LOL........Seriously, I was though.

I'll be glad to speak w/you in PM about it.

Have a great evening!

Stefos

From "the Union of Dzogchen and Bodhicitta by Anyen Rinpoche"

 

http://www.amazon.com/Union-Dzogchen-Bodhichitta-Anyen-Rinpoche-ebook/dp/B002BA4HRE/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

 

Is that what it is all about? Heightened perception?

Have to admit, if someone pulled a gun out on me, he'd have my undivided attention, that's for sure!!

Why hello!

What this is about is an extreme form of "direct introduction."

It would seem that Gvage Drubtob was a siddha or Mahasiddha thus the wound closing and disappearing.

Bottom line: If you haven't heard about a particular person, they could just be crazy and not a siddha or Mahasiddha.

Don't believe everything you read or see or hear.

Bye Bye now........

Stefos

I enjoy the scatter-brained approach, which I view as randomized, multi-tasking, approaching the origin in a spiraling, snaky route- serpentine, never a straight route. It's always been my method. Straightforward approaches, while they may seem more efficient from the get-go, are not my style. Even if it takes me longer the way I go, I am both practicing non-attachment, and adhering to Saivic principles. Shiva as riding Shesh-naga, a giant snake, who carries him around while he meditates, eyes half-lidded, is the way I do things, following my guide, lover, and other half, Shakti. This has been my mainstay since 1997 or so, maybe earlier even though I didn't know it. It's a fun path, and enjoyable.

Hello,

Thank you for sharing a question enough to post it online!

My intentions were only for the best and to get you out of any hellish psychological things you were/are in.

We all have our perspectives.

My respect and love go toward you........My contribution to this post is done.

Be well and have a great night.

Stefos

Hi everyone,

I don't know if any of you have heard or read about SNM.

If you haven't I suggest reading "I AM THAT" which is a series of dialogues he had with people.

He was very direct...very no nonsense and very keen on bringing people back to the Self.

Comments?

Stefos

Yeah, I should have researched the term Desire Body before I made the thread...I get 'thought insertions' from some place and that was one of them and when I googled it, one of the first hits was that link I posted and I just went from there...basically pranic sheath composed of desire emanations/objects....

Hi Songtsan,

A suggestion for the future:

I think it's best to ask one question at a time, get clarity or others views upon the issue and then move onward to a deeper level if you want and/or need it.

My perception of your posts has been this kind of nebulous cloud of free thinking....Perhaps you intend this but

it's confusing for a reading to ascertain just what it is your asking!

Granted judgement calls must be made due to morals and ethics....Being judgemental is another matter altogether.

To my mind, the 2 are different and not the same...qualitatively different.

We have all been judgemental as some point in our lives, the point is to understand another's perspective not necessarily agree with it and definitely not be judgemental any longer.

My thoughts sir.......Have a great evening and a beautiful tomorrow,

Stefos

because I am forcing it into a direction he doesnt like ... I think it is called clutching at straws.

Hi Nungali,

This thread was originally about the desire body and not any Hetero/Homosexual stances I or you or anyone else has/had.

I'm not clutching at anything.....You have not examined anything I've presented as a rebuttal to your stance.

I refuse to get into any more polemics.........I'm done playing your game.

This thread's title is Desire Body, not sex.

Thank you and be well!

Stefos

You know what? I AM passing judgement and have every right to do so, both as a U.S. Army combat vet and as a citizen of the U.S. and furthermore as a human being.

Everyone passes a judgement....sorry to bother you about it....Even YOU do.

A judgement is different than being judgemental: the infamous "I am better then him/her" statement...

I am categorically not being judgemental on the person....if you noticed.....but upon a school of thought/quasi-spirituality called "The New Age movement."

I also simply reinforced, what you stated in your post, in my post.

Finally, the so-called "Desire Body" is used in New Age circles but it's actual roots are in Eastern thought such as Advaita Vedanta & Vajrayana & Dzogchen and Mahamudra as well as Theosophy & Anthroposophy.

Thank you for trying to throw me under a "guilty as charged" bus,

I don't appreciate that.

Stefos

As I mentioned earlier, this "lil bit of this and that" mindset in typical of the new age movement:

Grabbing at everything but embracing nothing

It does take time to intellectually understand the viewpoint of a particular spirituality or any "topic" as it were, even if a spirituality touts itself as being "Sudden" as opposed to "Gradual"

Stefos

Who is making up their 'own' system of morals and ethics ?

 

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Transexual%20shamanism

You are using Wikipedia as a source for cultures embracing alternative lifestyles as if they always did.

This just isn't the case.

Just because these cultures now acknowledge LGBT's doesn't mean they always did.

Many modern authors, for example, want to use the ancient Greek culture as being "Gay embracing." They say that the red pottery found in Greece from Ancient Athens showing older men "fondling" younger men was "normal" back then and openly accepted.

The fact is that it was not and the older men who did this to younger men were prohibited from voting in the democratic sessions and were not allowed to own land.

Another type of example: The Chinese were originally Monotheistic, worshipping Shang-Ti/Shang-Di, and were not polytheistic nor were they syncretistic.

They adopted Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism....those religions were not native to the Chinese but were later developments.

Now they are communists who give token respect to Buddhism, Taoism & Confucianism.

Please be careful to fully contextualize how cultures across the globe came accept the current standards they now do.

To do this requires a LOT of research, not just a rip out of Wikipedia and/or Google and "there we have it," justifying one's position.

Thank you,

Stefos

P.S. A person posted a video on youtube quoting ancient Greek Athenian laws regarding the Greek perspective on homosexuality......here it is:

This is what I found 'judgemental'

 

 

With this 'pervert' label , the 2nd statement nullifies it ... as long as the reason for the action is considered valid , for the given reason ... but not for others.

 

Actually, it goes beyond judgmental into pre-judgemental (making a decision based on limited knowledge, or before all the knowledge 'is in' ) .... or ; pre judice.

My statement stands perfectly valid.

Judgement calls must be made due to moral & ethical stances one must make.

For example, in Buddhist thought although all things are empty this doesn't mean we act unethical or immoral!

Did you read what the Thai Buddhist monk told me about "homosexuality/lesbianism/etc."?

A person CAN make up their own system of morals & ethics however this is a cause ----> effect ------> cause world.

Causation is the hallmark of existence.

I hope you are well,

Stefos

On this topic, as I am practicing non-identification with body/mind/ego, I don't see how any of this matters. Endless sea of forms and reifying complexes....Only a reifying ego could label 'something as a some thing' I am moving away from Desire Body (eventually).

Non-identification doesn't mean we are immoral or unethical.

Again, your worldview dictates what is moral & immoral....ethical & unethical.

We are not islands but are interrelated with everything hence the term Universe.

Just my view.....take care

Stefos

That's an oxymoronic statement, in that labeling yourself as nonjudgmental is a judgement, as judging is the same as labeling.

 

If you speak, you are judging...it is impossible to speak a single sentence without judging, as this is inherent in mindtalk...All that is in mind is judgmental in that mind weighs and compares, labels and defines.

Nice one! True.......however in the relativistic sense, language is a needed medium.

I don't want anyone here to misconstrue anything..........Please read my "Buddhist intellectualism" post and you'll understand why.

Thank you!

Stefos

He isnt angry ... just politely judgemental ...

No, I'm not being judgemental either!

I'm just offering my 2 cents, so to speak, for her to be out of doubts.

That's all......Please don't read anything more into it.

Sometimes though, I wish I could truly avoid doubt and develop faith in a single well worn path so that I could just travel along it and see where it got me, instead of constantly vacillating between them and even trying to supersede them. At the same time, this desire is born of fear and even desperation - in thinking that if I don't hurry up and choose I make not 'make it.' In letting go of this fear, I find myself content to continue questioning. However, I find that doubt could easily disappear along with other things were I to stop thinking. This I do not doubt. What I do doubt is that not thinking will truly show the truth as the sages say.

 

I think that this indicates that I am unsure whether or not that we can directly perceive reality with this naked perception. That we may simply be tricked into believing this...hmmm..

My 2 cents:

When we apply naked perception, we "see" things a lot faster than by just lollygagging around.

If we have questions about a particular teaching, then we investigate it....we don't play intellectual games.

We find out and then apply it!

If we have questions about anything, we investigate it and come to conclusions, having researched it and by speaking

with people who actually "do" it.

Thank you and have a wonderful evening,

Stefos

Hi,

I understand you perspective very well and concur fully.....However:

If a person remains in doubt every day about every thing, nothing gets accomplished AND a sense of wasting of time arises too.

Very simple.

I never anywhere stated that one should blindly believe anything.....ever.

Investigation and coming to the best understanding is my policy.

Thank you for sharing,

Stefos

Stefos, Do I perceive some hostility? Please be aware that I'm not hostile towards you, just that I don't share the same views as you.

 

I doubt everything, because I have senses to perceive. Do they perceive what others describe? Maybe, I'm going to have to find that out. I have a brain to think. Will I not use it, because there's so many great brains that have done the thinking before me?

 

I go for the direct, personal experience. I doubt others and myself. I doubt books, religions and dogma. I doubt parents, schools and government.

 

You say you have no doubt, that you are your name, your body and your brain. But if you investigate that notion thoroughly you will see very clearly that you are not that.

 

Peace.

Hi Anoesjka,

I apologize if you took what I had posted as an attack.

It was not meant as such.

It actually was meant as an encouragement because, for me, existential questions caused me to lose sleep actually.

So, to be very clear with you, In my opinion, you should not have doubts about anything but by having used

discrimination and Naked perception have arrived at a place of deep peace and a clear conscience.

Thank you and I wish only good things for you,

Stefos

Not everybody can find themselves in dogmas, dear Stefos. I applaud you for knowing who you are and where you stand. I have doubts everyday.

Hi Anoesjka,

Thank you however it really is unmerited!

Miss/ma'am, Why do you have doubts every day? (If I may ask and IF you'd like to respond )

Could I suggest that you allow yourself "space' or freedom to question cherished beliefs and/or dogmas?

To me, something must be verifiable in actuality to be true otherwise everything becomes one gigantic relativistic mess.

For example, Who am I?

A name

A body with a brain which functions both autonomically (Breathing, Eye-blinking, Heart pumping) & non-autonomically

My consciousness put together by thought

My past experiences, which if I allow them to, condition my consciousness today

Just investigate and see what conclusions you come up with.

I send you my well wishes and hope in your investigation(s) actually conclude with concrete answers and don't remain in doubt.

Stefos

What better way than to describe the spiritual path as one of learning and overcoming one's traumas? If you want to get anywhere in the western or eastern tradition, you have to be healed to a great extent first (or along the way).

Hi,

The point, miss, to me is that one has got to have a definitive starting point for one's world view or else

one has no idea what is "progress" and what is "digression."

For example, the "new age" movement is a farce to me.

Fairly simple to understand, to me at least.

I wish you well,

Stefos

Maybe it isnt about answers but hearing others opinions .. I am sure 'crazy fox' is capibile of forming his own answers.

 

 

And no one ever does that ? No one uses the esoteric or the occult to help with personal issues, or interprets the teachings within their own situation and apply teachings to themselves ?

 

 

I am glad you worded it it that way .

Hi Nungali,

I just gave my opinions and experiences.

I have never said that a person couldn't glean things from different spiritual streams.

I'm glad you appreciated the way I worded what I stated to Songtsan.

Have a nice evening!

Stefos

Hi Songtsan,

I've been through sexual trauma myself and can relate to you.

It was not of my own doing.

To me, if a person wants to cross dress for fun, I have no issues with it!

Say "Rocky Horror picture show" anyone?

I hope you find what it is you're looking for.

This forum is really not the place that can answer your questions as they are currently conveyed.

This forum approaches things from an Esoteric/Occult viewpoint.

It sounds like you are combining Esoteric/Occult topics with personal issues.

Maybe another site is more appropriate for your needs.

Take care and my well wishes to you,

Stefos

Well ... answers ? ? ? :

 

A . I asked about wish but your answer is about 'want' .

Then you Ex (is that examples?) asked questions instead of gave answers ... so it seems obfuscating. Not to mention your insistence that it is perverted ... you seem to be avoiding the questions as to why and what is really behind this moral stance of yours .... what possible harm could I do to anyone else if I decided to dress as a woman tomorrow ? Why would that be a 'perversion'. Women dress 'as men' all the time now ... is that perverted?

 

B. Okay, I can accept your view that things need to be self less .... but dressing as a woman, although based on a need of the self isnt one that is adverse ,,, it isnt like actively damaging the world like you outline above ... aside from shelter food clothing there are many needs for some ... religion is one ... people dress up crazy shit like in religion ... as you say above , for purposes "as in mystery schools" ... how do you know similar the purpose isnt there (in its own way) in a 'cross-dresser'.

Hi Nungali,

I believe that a physical male and a physical female exist to express the Divine nature in different ways.

I see nothing wrong with women wearing pants or collared shirts.

I do see a problem with men adopting the mannerisms of women and women adopting the mannerisms of men.

For me, there is an inherent error in wanting to be another sex other than what one is.

For me, therefore, homosexuality/lesbianism/transgenderism/etc. are all perverse.

Also perverse are necrophilia and sex with children and sex with animals.

I don't know what your spirituality is but I don't endorse "dressing as a god or goddess".......sorry....Perhaps you do.

I think a few examples are needed to make my perspective clear:

For example (yes, Ex. is the way a person abbreviates the word example):

Swamis of the Dashnami order (Who believe in Advaita Vedanta) wear saffron robes both men and women.

They don't "dress up like the god or goddess" even if they use Tantric methods like those found in Sri Chakra.

Incidentally, Advaita Vedanta has never accepted homosexuality.

Buddhist monks and Tantrics wear robes, as do Christian priests or pastors (male or female).

The Dalai Lama (current one) said this once:

"Traditionally in Buddhism, homosexuality has never been accepted."

When I spoke with a Theravada monk at a Thai Wat, I asked him about homosexuality, lesbianism, etc. and if they were part of the Buddhas teachings....He said, motioning a "shoo fly" gesture with his hand in the Thai language, (as I had an interpreter) that those things were "very far away from the Buddhas' teachings."

The Bible condemns homosexuality & lesbianism as being perverse.

I think that expresses where I stand well enough.

Thank you,

Stefos

A. What? What is wrong with a male 'wish to be a female' ?

 

B. I dont know Stefos ... that would be for your own reasons I suppose. They may be very different from the reasons Songtsan or Nungali do it.

 

C. What is your boundary between a 'deep meaning' and 'silly' ?

Hi Nungali,

I will answer your questions:

A. If a particular gender "wants" to be another, first they should define what they mean by "wants"

Ex. Does one want to have a sex change? This still doesn't make a person a biological female and is expensive

Ex. Does one want to dress as a female? No need to unless one is perverted (My viewpoint)

In the mystery schools men did dress as women but for a reason ----> spiritual truths to be displayed via external show

B. The point is "We don't need to assert ourselves"

This planet is on the brink of nuclear annihilation due to Egos "asserting themselves"

No, selflessness is the ONLY solution.........No ego, No problems

C. My boundary between "deep meaning" and "silly" is this:

Any act or spoken word contains a value set.

This value set should be selfless....If not it is selfish.

I'm not speaking of food, clothing and shelter......those are needs...a need value set.

For me, a spiritual and hence selfless act or word is "deep"

Silliness is defined in the dictionary (not trying to be a jerk Nungali but the dictionary definition works for me)

Thank you sir or miss or ma'am!

Blessings to you

Stefos

A. interesting...I am obsessed with the desire body, but not not paying attention to the others either, but there is certainly imbalances if one is being a perfectionist in needing everything just right.

 

B. Practicing non-attachment on a subtle level, I ask myself 'why not?'

 

C. Hearing of this thing called 'extinction,' 'total enlightenment,' 'true fulfillment,' etc. I find myself moderately interested, yet not grasping much honestly...

 

D. I ask myself what this means...should I become ardently serious to adopt someone else's fervent desire out of their own expressed fears of being caged? What if I have become comfortable being caged?

 

E. I have learned to overcome suffering for the most part, yet still maintain levels of extreme desire for certain things...does this mean that I haven't experienced them enough yet?

Thank you for being humble enough to speak openly about intimate things. I appreciate you.

I will address these particular points that I've labeled above:

A. Whenever you mention a buzz phrase like "desire body" that phrase doesn't exist in a vacuum but was taken from a particular form of spirituality, as I mentioned in my prior post.

B. There is nothing wrong with examining how a female would, out of her feminancy, respond to things or act.

Living out that response, via lisping or hand gestures and such, is silly and learned.

No man that I know has been born lisping like a lady nor making feminine hand gestures.

These are all learned behaviors.

C. Enlightenment means different things in different forms of spirituality!

Research and see what it means in Advaita Vedanta for example

D. This statement is vague.

Do you mean that an organized or an UNorganized religion is a cage?

Do you mean that being a hetero or homosexual man is a cage, whichever way one desires to express sexually?

E. Desires, lusts, cravings are 3 different things to my understanding:

Desire is a basic want

Lust is a craving gone excessive

Craving is a repetition of a past experience/desire

Defining what we mean brings clarity both to ourselves and to ohers who interface/interact with us.

Truly, reality is nothing other than perpetual interaction with everything.

Be blessed in Jesus's name

Stefos

I. Not sure what you mean here ? If you mean it is wrong in every culture ... that itself is wrong. Many different cultures, including indigenous ones have 'effeminate' men to various degrees , that may or may not 'cross-over' to other parts of their lives. (If you mean it is the definition of effeminate cross-culturally and that is wrong in our culture ... thats wrong too ... or at least moralistically relative (but maybe still illegal in some 'backward' places ? )

 

 

II. Well , in a way , isnt that what Songtsan is exploring ?

Let me address each point from my perspective:

I. What I mean by the term "effeminate" is probably not what you mean by the term "effeminate."

I have no desire to go into a large diatribe about "effeminacy" here.

Suffice to say that both sexes can learn from one another and should!

II. Songtsan is speaking of "spirit guides" if you read his post.

First, let's qualify what he means......What does he mean by "spirit guides?" Incarnate or Disincarnate beings?

Second, Exploring, the way Songtsan is exploring, sounds "off" to me.

One can explore anything by reading, visiting a particular cultures events (such as holidays) or by speaking to people on a 1 to 1 basis who have experienced or are experiencing certain things, whatever those "things" are.

2 sub issues:

A. In my view, this statement:

"The root cause is addiction or attachment to flesh forms, namely, that from a young age I wished I was born female."

is very telling.

Why would a male "wish" to be a female?

Something is wrong, in my honest opinion.

If I'm a male, experience life as a male not a female.

To so do otherwise, without a deep meaning behind it, is silly. Ex. If I walk around with a bow in my hair, Why am I wearing it?

B. Next, This gentleman is speaking of "the desire body" which is not physical and as I read his explanation of it, I don't think he understands it's functions.......not that I'm the expert!

Basically, he should define what he believes: Is he a Hindu, Buddhist, Theosophist, Anthroposophist, Christian, etc?

Each of the types of spirituality I've expressed explains the desire body differently.

Otherwise this talk of the desire body is rootless which is typical of the New Age teachings.

Stefos

http://rosicrucian.com/pdf_plaza/The%20Desire%20Body.pdf

 

I am just entering study of this, along with other things...can't say I have even read it yet, but I will, but I was led to it by spirit guides..

 

From my own story, I find I have formed a Desire Body, and that this body taketh me away from normal reality, which is why I have oft been diagnosed with a type of dissociative personality disorder.

 

The root cause is addiction or attachment to flesh forms, namely, that from a young age I wished I was born female.

 

In putting all my spiritual/emotional energy in this, I have sucked the life out of my real world body to a great extent, which is why I feel almost 'ghost like.'

 

My spirit friends have been showing me how I self willed my form into a sort of submissive, effeminate one, which desires to be led.

 

I have seen that this has blocked me from achieving actualization in the material plane.

 

I am contemplating making an informed decision to radically alter my desire body to fit my actuality as it is. This is how I will be able to manifest here and now, and not be half trapped on some immaterial plane.

 

Just posting this to see if I can get some commentary or affirmation that this could be a problem. It seems like it to me, but I'd like to have group mind opinion.

Hi,

My opinion:

The desire body is one of many "bodies" surrounding the dense physical.

You appear to be obsessed with this level of existence.

You should take EVERY level of existence as being equally important!

Furthermore, being a male, this is how I view sexuality:

Being a "man" doesn't mean that one isn't sensitive

Sensitivity is what allows a person to enjoy all things

Having said that, Sensivity does not mean effeminancy either.

Adopting the characteristics of a lady, who naturally responds in effeminate ways which can be characterized

as similar in every culture, is wrong.

Behaviors are learned however there is a natural expression that both a male & female have.

The point to life is not "being a real man" nor "celebrating my womanhood" which are silly slogans

but rather uniting both masculine and feminine qualities and being integrated as a person, whether a physiological

male or female.

Ultimately, we are not the body and should stop identifying our true nature with physiology and it's cultural definitions.

I send my love and well wishes to you

Stefos

Have you ever gazed at the sky and seen a bunch of little balls of light moving around, appearing and disappearing, glittering like little diamonds or minuscule moons, leaving a trail as they move? Sometimes these little stars appear and disappear in exactly the same location two or three times, then don't. There are hundreds of them all darting around in arced semi circles.

 

Well, those little stars/balls of light are what is known as "vajra strands". They are the first stage, what you focus on during the very first stage of thogal! How wonderful to know this.

 

How about you? Any experiences you'd like to share?

Yes, I will:

About over 10 years ago, I did a composite meditation practice which entailed the following in the order described:

1. I did a concentration exercise briefly immediately followed by mindfulness of my breath

2. I then visualized different colors of light entering the chakras from muladhara to Sahasrara and opening them up

From Red= Muladhara to Violet = Sahasrara

3. I then chanted the OM mantra resonating it externally allowing the mantra to vibrate my head by opening up the throat

4. I then immediately saw spheres of golden light of varying sizes filling up the room I was meditating in.

These spheres were golden and they radiated golden light filling up the room.......This lasted for a very brief time only =1-2 mins maximum but it did "feel" longer.

The spheres were of varying sizes of magnitude as well.

When I told Chogyal Namkhai Norbu of this experience he said "it is your nature."

I send my love to you all.

Stefos