qofq

2 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Do you pay the priest for tuition or whatever arrangement you have?

I pay rent and tuition for classes/retreats when I go.  

3 hours ago, OldDog said:

I think the true nature of a gift is in the intent. Is it an attempt to curry favor or influence? Is it a response to appreciation of something or some one? Is it a favor being returned? Is there any expectation attached?

 

A true gift has no expectation attached; there should be no trace in the giving.

 

Perhaps, in your case, teacher does not want to set a precedent. Or perhaps there is some deeper principle that he feels is being violated. Maybe he just wants to avoid a misunderstanding. It might be worthwhile to talk with your teacher about it so that you have a better understanding. It may be something you need to understand as part of your training.

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

I am in tune with the "no trace of giving" you mention.  It was something I had to work on understanding through my experience with my teacher.  Just funny to be on the other end of the exchange, learning form that side now.  

I should also note that I haven't been initiated and being as such, I don't find much space or encouragement for direct inquiries with the teacher in regards to my training.  I do wonder if initiation would change that? This is not to say I don't learn what I need to =).  But there is not the relationship where I get to ask questions as I please, necessarily. haha.  A fact I'm still coming to terms with HA! 

I do appreciate the verbal exchange that I find here. 

8 hours ago, wandelaar said:

I am currently in the process of decluttering and returning to a simple life as I see that as the way to go for me as a philosophical Taoist. So accepting a gift (even when it is given from the bests of intentions) is actually adding obstructions to the path of the receiver of the gift if the receiver wants a decluttered simple life, because he now (in all probability) has to remove one thing more from his properties (which is very difficult to do without disturbing the giver if he finds out). Maybe it would help to give some healthy food, beautiful flowers or some other things that naturally disappear after being used and thus don't add to the clutter in the receivers home. 

 

In case of a teacher there might also be some other reason to refuse a gift, and that is that he doesn't want to be bribed in any way.

I see where you're coming from with this.  Thanks.

11 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

May I ask why you refused the gift from your friend ?

I see the person weekly.  Every week for months they would offer me a gift.  I noticed that In the moment of exchange I was not being as present as I could be.  Had minor intuition to not accept gifts since I had seen my teacher doing the same thing.  Noticed it was still hard to be present even after that intention.  For instance I would have the idea that I would not accept any gifts and it's like the exchange would happen so fast that I'd just end up with a gift in my possession.  I also noticed me getting sick frequently (week long flue -> right into food poisoning -> x, y, z) and set some intention to  try and become more aware of what was happening.  

Even said to this friend once "that's it, don't offer me any more gifts" in a friendly exchange.

The response was "They're more obligations at this point haha"

I said "Exactly!"

Thus this topic is something I'm looking at more deeply.

Nice seeing you t/here spotless. 

More like "here is some chapstick" .... "I made you this food"... Do you want this "thing".

I guess more specifically, why such a strong desire (both me to teacher and now this friend to me) to give the gifts (from the givers end and especially with the emotional reaction due to refusal)  

and what is avoided by refusing?

Hello Friends and teachers alike!

Story/Question time!

I've spent the last 5 years living under a Taoist Priest in the Longmenpai tradition.  This has been something I could not be more grateful for.  

Something I've seen in our time together has been as follows.  

: I intend to give a gift to my teacher

: I feel very sad (almost as if I want to weep) when he refuses to take my gift  

I learned to be more sincere as a result but didn't think to much about it at the time

lately I've made a friend in the world who I shared some things with (perhaps too much?) and  I've noticed the same behavior now from them.  

:trying to excessively give me gifts

:and only this last time have I been present enough to not just absently accept it, and when I refused I could sense that same grief/whatever it is by my refusal.  

Is there anyone who would like to speak to this?  I am grateful for the fellowship.

what part of the u.s. are you from?

I don't want to publicly give out information which would offer a hand to those seeking to do harm.  But if you are really curious you might look into the reasons fresh flowers, and flames are kept on alters. 

On 7/22/2017 at 3:22 PM, qofq said:

This one is for the humans.  

 

 There is no such thing as "western" mo pai.  The only name that should be ascribed to this group is "foolish"  

 

 The internal arts are humanities most ancient and protected treasure.  Do you think this group are the first batch in 2000 years to try and steal the teaching and  go it alone?  Were are they who have done what these men think they can/are doing?  They are nowhere to be found. I'll bet you can deduce why.  

 

What practices these helpless ignorant minority have gleaned are - AND THIS IS IMPORTANT- INCOMPLETE!

Because they are incomplete as well as unsupervised by an accomplished adept are all but guaranteed to cause injury.   The glaringly egoic and rigid negativity of the poster's energy in this thread should be sounding your alarms. 

 

TLDR

 

1) unrecognized bogus lineage 

2) incomplete dangerous practices

3) obviously and painfully unawakened promoter

 

Only a fool would participate with this group.  

 Two can play at the broken record game and it would seem they both have been going in circles since time immemorial =) 

poof

poof

This one is for the humans.  

 There is no such thing as "western" mo pai.  The only name that should be ascribed to this group is "foolish"  

 The internal arts are humanities most ancient and protected treasure.  Do you think this group are the first batch in 2000 years to try and steal the teaching and  go it alone?  Were are they who have done what these men think they can/are doing?  They are nowhere to be found. I'll bet you can deduce why.  

What practices these helpless ignorant minority have gleaned are - AND THIS IS IMPORTANT- INCOMPLETE!

Because they are incomplete as well as unsupervised by an accomplished adept are all but guaranteed to cause injury.   The glaringly egoic and rigid negativity of the poster's energy in this thread should be sounding your alarms. 

TLDR

1) unrecognized bogus lineage 

2) incomplete dangerous practices

3) obviously and painfully unawakened promoter

Only a fool would participate with this group.  

Comedy comes in three's. 

I live under and train with a Daoist priest of 青城山 lineage.  

 He would have turned away (and has) from me the instant I tried to unload the bullshit you are here, and in doing so exemplified the highest skill I should be mimicking.

His oldest disciple whom is a little more tolerant would say "quit whining"

I am nothing to speak of.

With serious dedicated practice eventually when your search and discover the essence of where the impetus for whichever goals is coming from, then you'll start to intuitively know their relative ability to nourish or conversely dramage your essence and equanimity.

This is part of "knowing yourself" , "knowing for yourself".

poof

Ignorance is to refuse to engage ones own conceptions and to mark everything you cannot understand as magical. It is evasion and, if there was ever a sin, that would be it.

Haha. Origins of ignorance indeed!

The origins of ignorance.

Sorry, I thought you were offering that typing these words and that cup of tea you mention might be more "real" then things like telepathy.

Your 'science' isn't even magic, it isn't anything. You say the Sun is conscious and yet this is illogical, as is your assertion consciousness can exist without perception. However you persist in your erroneous delusion because you heard a voice in your head that you believe was the Sun. I can tell you the voice in your head was yours and yours alone. You manufactured a perceptual error, there has never been a form of ESP, intrincisism, or divine revelation despite numerous scientific experiments. We can dust that off as false.

 

I don't mean this to be cruel, I think it's important that you come to terms with the error you have made before it gets compounded leading to something more unpleasant. However, as always, the choice is quite clearly yours.

You know, you really ruin a lot of the conversations for me that I read around here with all this nasty energy you put off in regards to experiences which you haven't had.

So I thank you for showing me some things I could work on

Breakfast just got a tad bit more interesting. " yes I'll have an unboiled egg please... Scrambled"

Poop rain gore Tex

Terra papers sounds interesting. I wonder if anyone could provide some good links as to the phsycic visions mentioned earlier int thread. There seems to be a metric ton's worth of that type of info out there and I'm hoping some one else (bless their heart) has done some of the heavy lifting.

Dawei, I don't think I understand your response and I'm also very interested in this topic.

Control your mind, control the phenomena; your focus determines your reality (but not to arbitrary extent!) Don't speculate too far and worry about what may come up, preconceived notions can hinder your progress, you can miss a street sign ig you are Ooh look shiny!

Many thanks. yeah that phenomena only happened once and I've kind of scaled my work down since as it was a obvious sign that something was happening (which was good) but I didn't know what or really how to continue. I only stumbled into "toaist toga .." and read a few other snippets relating to the practice that reminded me of these dreams I had as a kid where I was doing strange body postures, doing this breath thing and giving myself chills and then turning invisible, flying, etc. And I was so young that it was shocking to have that light bulb go off at nearly 30 years old and see that maybe those dreams (like 3rd or 4th grade) and these practices could be related somehow.

Anyhow, that lit a fire in me to really devote some time to that book (Finally some real life confirmation of the fruits of spiritual labor) and my intuition is practically screaming at me to follow this work through so.. If I may pose some more questions to any who wish to comment for the sake of my own clarity.

------------------------

The stillness absolute (and reverse breathing) was the antecedent to the energy in my lower belly (months and months of meditation) which then rose into my solar plexus (while still in my belly) before finally rising between my eyes manifesting in a blue light/ ultimate bliss..

Q: Is that process ok to be recreated frequently?

Q: Once the light and bliss come what is the best thing to do? prolonging it? take a break? Is it safe to mess around with in any way?

Q: Does or should the series of events (rising cauldron and light manifesting) outlined happen every time for people who are very experienced? Does it happen sooner with more practice or is it random and happen when it wants to as long as your are "in position" so to speak? Do you forget about it past a certain point?

Forgive me for asking if I'm asking too much. Time is valuable and so I appreciate all who are kind enough to offer some to a wanderer.

It is basically *the* prerequisite for meditation and energy work, imo.

 

These phenomena you have experienced are good, I just wanted to highlight the integration aspect

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I had another question regarding the experience of being smacked with the blue light between the eyes.

Is this something that should be worked for as something that happens every time? it's only happened once for me.

Does it happen faster with more practice and to what degree?

And you mention "energy work" which I am totally inexperienced with. I am generally a thinker and use various methods (lucid dreaming and fungal sacraments) after spending a great time forming a honest question. (imagine if you could ask a superior intelligence a sincere and profound question once a year what would you ask.) This method of searching has lead me here with my last answer being "learn to control your mind" but I'm very curious about being able to control the phenomena I mentioned (ie. magnetic feeling hands) Does that really happen? and how?