Stosh

11 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

i refer to the feeling i get when i realize "i am being seen on the level of feet". Other person uses my pure part towel for to purify his/her/it dirty parts. So feeling that feeling i need to make a action to defend my pride.

Oh , May I say you do not need to defend your pride in this case? The mods warn us if we are going too far , and that IF we march blindly forward we will be banned. We cant know exactly where the line is , its drawn by human beings , and so , they do us the honor of telling us when we approach it. You haven't gone too far , you are not banned , and so your honor is intact. Relax move on , and just remain cognizant that there is a limit that they will notify you about. ( In fact , you can be very proud of yourself, 99% of folks just will not heed this kind of well meant advice out of hubris. ) 

1 minute ago, allinone said:

 

A situation where someone uses your pure part towel for dirty parts, comes to my mind reading what you said.

That I am excusing a bad thing ? Covering up ? Whitewashing? 

16 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

Usage of banhammer is deva-stating.

Don't make things get that far . It is a downer, to get smacked like that , especially if you enjoy your time here.

If you do value the fun you have , It should indeed make you at least cognizant of where the boundaries are at.

Many times we have seen folks get all defiant at the tiniest of corrections ,

They declare how much this forum is un-important to them , and how they don't care' WHAT any one says,they are not going to guard their tongue' ,

, and I feel  that's bullshit , and childish. If you value this whole thing , you can live with the occasional constraints. Its that simple. This is a little community , in which one best considers everyone ,ANd themself. 

7 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

 

There is the setting up of mindfulness, with mental constructs like "gravity", and then there is the experience of the otoliths.

 

Similarly, the mental construct "equalibrioception" and the experience of the vestibular organs, the mental construct "eyes" and the experience of the resetting of the location of awareness in the interaction between the ocular organs and the vestibulars, the mental construct "proprioception" and the experience of consciousness that originates in the ligaments, muscles, and joints throughout the body.

 

There's the construct of reciprocal innervation in the paired ligaments and muscles on opposite sides/ends of the body, and then there's the experience.

 

I would summarize Gautama's setting up of mindfulness:

 

relax

calm down

think

breathe

 

Gautama returned to self-surrender and a consequent one-pointedness in the experience of the location of awareness after he spoke.  You're right, it's self-surrender and not the constructs that makes the way of living come to pass.  

 

Where's the necessity for one-pointedness in the experience of the location of awareness, for self-surrender, if not in the inhalation of the moment, if not in the exhalation of the moment?  There's the construct inhalation and exhalation, and the experience of the whole body of the inhalation, the experience of the whole body of the exhalation--here is where I think Gautama's way of living begins.

 

 

I don't think I experience my otoliths, nor do I experience photons, etc, ..and instead ,do create experiences in the form of a mental model , regarding the "proprioception" going on....so I figure I agree with you up to that point. We perhaps diverge after that. ? 

I think it was suggested that one can walk around all day long , not making sophisticated mental constructs , I disagreed , and here I think you are describing a mode of approaching what you consider mindfulness ,, if that's correct , then my question extends to you , whether you are mindful of breathing , or if you are mindful of the grasshopper. , I don't think you can be fully mindful of either , if your answer is ' both' . When one multitasks , they are dividing the allocation of time spent on more than one task , and so then they are not mindful 24 -7 , if they are going to the store to get groceries. 

15 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

im looking forward to the sensitive nerve when stimulated and gives same reaction what i got today, can you point me to that direction instead. Well it took me multiple days so i have no information how that happen or what i exactly need to do, so can i get a FREE PASS.

Im as lost as you guys are. And i don't think that lost kidds should play with banhammer.

Somebody HAS to swing the banhammer , the point is that someone does have that responsibility, not that anyone is perfect. 

7 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

Mentality that if you can't defeat them join them doesn't work with me.

 

I speak and test all the time someone like Marblehead if he knows what i point at, till to the point he actually moves towards me with an effort, like today, it makes my blood boil, hand shake, mouth shake, and then i can start do what here people look as i offend(so i can't be offencive? and have to be always passive?)

 

basically it is biological hand shake, elements reacted. So is that BAD?

 

i am very easily readable person, so if i actually make a move it is so ideal that it is bannable?

Some of us take the written word, with a grain of salt, and we can tolerate sentiments that are ordinarily considered offensive , the same way.( That at least its genuine.) But , this being a public venue , we are not in a situation which is conducive to permitting absolutely anything , there's other people to consider, not only the mods , nor Sean , nor only those who write posts. There's an audience of quiet people too, who would rather read what is written with a  bit of self control. It isn't all about me , nor you, nor Mh , and I personally prefer not to be offending folks , I prefer them to participate , and it requires cooperation, in the form of some rules to cooperate according to. We all hold back from time to time and its no disgrace to just abide by the rules we implicitly agreed to, by joining, as best we recognize them. No biggie. 

Some render the Dao navigable by assigning arbitrary boundaries , and rules , to its scope.

But in reality these boundaries are fabrications and the proper behaviors,

need to fit the circumstance in which one actually is operating.

The proper execution, of the way of heaven, for men ,  is contingent upon the human element , not independent of it. 

...its not a rote set of rules, you have to be judicious and feel your way through it. 

Imhotep

 No its not the loop of being sad about being sad.

its a situation where everything drags you back there. You dont believe the things which would make you happy are valid. That the other shoe will fall . Things have no bang for the buck. 

You need to understand that continuing on is an act of faith based of feedback. no feedback no reason to go on. They want to live and go on, its just that there is no payoff to keep em going.

What they do, doesnt touch on , what they need or its negated somehow. Not all depressions are the same, nor are they even all recognized . 

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Right, my comment was a little short sighted.  It can also be caused by a 'chemical imbalance'.  Recently I read a report that presented a new insight into depression, and that is that it is caused by a vitamin D deficiency, no kidding.  Aaaand, vitamin D deficiency is rampant, so much so it looks like a conspiracy   Also, people telling people that they can get enough vitamin D from the sun is wrong.  Theoretically yes, people could get enough vitamin D from the sun ... if they work out enough to sweat and then do NOT wash the oils off their skin, which is the common thing to do; and THEN they need to run around nearly naked in the sun for a few hours a day.  Otherwise people will have a vitamin D deficiency.  Another symptom that isn't mentioned in the following report is that with insufficient vitamin D people's jaws don't grow big enough to fit all their teeth, which is why wisdom teeth need to be removed.  Normally, with semi naked 'savages', all their teeth fit in their jaws.

 

http://www.healthyway.com/content/symptoms-of-vitamin-d-deficiency-that-most-people-ignore/11266?rtg=higherpersp-5PbPwn&param4=hwy-fni-fbss-1334-demo

That surely sounds valid. And I suggested as much, in real life, but there can be yet more. And it really is just the most saddest and wasteful ... thing...even so..

5 minutes ago, Gunther said:

It's become habitual, they don't have to remember why they are sad.

Very sad

Thats not it either. they are caught in a web , if its not just chemical.. where the things that should bring joy , the impetus to go farther, do not.

They want to live richly , intensely , and with all their heart. 

Is it not better, to have lived a rich life, pusuing some crazy irrational but beautiful dream ?

4 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Nope, that kind of masochism never appealed to me, but why do you say that?

 

I aint no expert on depression but it seems to me that people could take their lumps like adults and not self crucify over them, and most do.

 

I prefer a different kind of masochism.

 

 

iI know a little bit about it , and thats not what is going on.  Thats all, one needs a really up close view to understand that kind of thing. 

6 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Same thing with depression, the feeling sad about feeling sad.

You must not be depressed

4 minutes ago, C T said:

 

The only allusion i made was to the idea that modern day psychology is still flawed and will continue to be flawed for a while, at least - I dont believe it was my intention to indicate that Buddhism was a more superior substitute for fixing chronic mental illness. 

It is. and I will concede that Buddhism has probably done more for humanitys wellbeing .... so far

Im sorry , I am not sure I am following your presentation.. I agree that being angry at insult is flawed rationally speaking. I know folks who regularly give each other a hard time , and its actually just play, but even more than that  ,the reaction is just not actually determined as a fact by the insult. 

Are we in agreement ?

PS the ocarina is magnifico.

Certainly true Ct , So I did not volunteer any analysis of SG today. and just mentioned sticks bells and balls, leaving the doubt for others to assign. but you are correct I think the effects of such are to be considered... in the context of individuals reations to them. ...Same could be said for pschoanalysis ..to be fair.

But I dont think buddhism has supplied the fix for mental illness, even to the poor level of modern psychology.

30 minutes ago, C T said:

 

I might actually want to disagree with you slightly on that point about causes being deeply buried/suppressed in the unconscious mind. There are lots of things that people know (are conscious of) that are not contributing to good, healthy overall well-being of body and mind, any yet continue to justify, by using the above tag line, in repeating the same patterns over and over. Its a common practice to defer one's limitations to things hidden in the deeper strata of the sub-mind. The Buddha never acknowledged this in his discourses. 

 

Buddhism, for example, is not a psychoanalytically-bent philosophy. The Buddha laid it down very clearly and simply that the root cause of suffering is attachment, and attachment's root cause is ignorance. Ignorance means not knowing, and also, knowing, but not doing anything remedially. He didn't mention anything about hidden neuroses that need to be rooted out by using methods that resemble analytical tools employed by modern day psychology. He merely said that if you want to address a short-coming, then you need to bring that into the light and see it clearly and fearlessly, and keep being aware that it is a self-imposed hindrance and an obstacle to the practice of the eightfold path, or the paramitas, or to the maintenance of equipoise. 

 

 

Freud had some issues, and in his analysis of his own mind , he saw some of that stuff. So one might take it that he knew what he was talking about. Siddhartha , may not have had phobophobia and so , he might not be the guy to look into it.

Its difficult to fathom the mind of folks who suffer from various conditions , and it may be misplaced to assume that what was said about 'normal minds' fits all circumstances , folks in those days , often seem to refer to demons and such and had various rituals like burning sticks ,ringing bells and so forth, as remedy. 

In the new world , the remedy for idiocy was to rub beaver testicles on your head , and so one may presume that there are , understandably,  limits to rational understanding. 

(Wouldnt someone who wasn't an idiot , be able to tell if it worked or not )

It would sound less unappealing, if it were a state, where one was at ease, with the state of things as they are, were, and are to be, whatever that appears to be, including the change that one has effected , is effecting , and will effect. 

Kind of like that thing where ' everything is suffering' it sounds horrible in english.. 

 Whoa ! 

42 minutes ago, Gunther said:

We all have moments of relaxation when we are content and happy as we are for no particular reason. If you then follow the mind unawares it soon takes you into all kind of daydreams, ideas, thoughts, plans, and before you know it your natural state is obscured. You feel bored or whatever, and now you feel you have to go out and buy a drink to regain that happiness.

So one needs to be aware how the conditioned mind fabricates all kind of needs and desires and leads you down the garden path again😀😀 

 

Yes , exactly . Nicely put. 

47 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

is not having "no desire" a desire?

How would one cut the root by planting another seed ?

 

May I suggest one can react before desire to act is formulated, If so , the tree is there whole before its seed germinates. If you watch yourself really really closely , even typing posts , you may see this can be true. One may not always act like this ... but I am thinking is is more common than one considers it to be.  Thats why caligraphy and martial arts and wu wei and meditation etc , Are the way they are. The source of who one is , precedes who they believe they are . 

I am just suggesting this , its not an argument I am presenting. 

Well said.:)

Yep, there too, almost the exact same reasoning , very cool! 

The shines equally ,on the Wicked ,and the Just . 

It may be from Matthew but it is quite appropriate anyway.