Stosh

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Don't know.

 

But the story wouldn't fit him.  He wasn't a librarian as far as I know.  But Lao Tzu was a "keeper of records" which would be similar to a librarian.

 

Of course, Lao Tzu didn't retire to his home but went off to the borderlands.  I don't recall but I think Chuang Tzu pretty much stayed home.

 

 

Ok, then substitute Dan where I said Chuang. I thought Mair was telling chapters from Cz. 

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

Yep.

 

I thought the old longears was traditionally a name for Chuang, was it not?

17 hours ago, Marblehead said:

When I read that section I imagined Old Longears as Lao Tzu.  It couldn't have been Chuang Tzu, of course, as he wasn't born yet.

 

 

 

 

The author potentially could be anyone who lived after the characters , but from that vantage could mix and match anyone from any past time and indicating accurate sentiments of past persons . Right?

For ex:

This reminds me of a time when President Lincoln said to Pablo Picasso, "I don't understand what you've done there, with the burnt umber. " 

I think this suggests that Chuang is against endorsing principles which rub against normal human responses. To take the ' better angels' of mans nature and promote them as absolutes is indeed a cause for confusion. We have an individual morality which may in part be mirrored by someone else , but the moral doesn't exist as a physical truth independent of the persons adhering to it. That's the difficult part to get ,since its ordinary to figure our own views as being in accord with a right-ness. 

I think historically Confucius felt that , as long as he could get everyone on the same page.. that society would have an established standard of morality , which then one could conform to , and it didn't really matter which thing was deemed to be right.

Traffic patterns could be arranged so that opposite bound traffic, is on the left side of the car , OR the right, with the Driver on either the left, or right side of the vehicle. He , Confucius , would just say Pick one! and that would become a 'right' way to arrange it. We might say that if the driver is in the right-hand seat and traffic passed on the left , maybe there would be fewer deadly collisions to drivers, dunno. But if you drive in countries with alternate arrangements , one generally concedes that its just a matter of custom , and not 'rightness'. 

I read it as suggesting that one be aware and attend to their root principles. Not to be goofing off, being sloppy, or charging around based on the immediate 'carrots and sticks'. Its easy to be pulled off from center , lured or driven. ( I am aware of this keenly)

So the winds metaphor of Lok Sang Ho seems apt , to me. 

Because that which you contend against, becomes clear. 

Summary conclusion plus effort. 

It suggests that though yao is a benevolent leader by normal standards , Shun doesnt consider him great in heavenly terms because he takes an active interest in his people. 

I am unsure of the intent of that final bit. Perhaps it says that the great kings are most benevolent By being impartial and dispassionate rather than securing one at the expense of the other.

1 hour ago, Mig said:

I don't think I said something about your comments or rendition. It's okay if you don't want though I don't understand the reason

Oh, I got befuddled , my bad. I was looking at the Mair chapter just a moment earlier. 

One cant presume that an attribute is good , or bad , without considering the circumstance.

Also .. 

Uselessness vs useful ,, refers to "who exactly is the beneficiary?" ,, answer -- the end consumer. 

Does man properly serve 'the state' ? Or,  is the intent ,that the citizens, are the end consumer, who is to benefit ? 

The preamble of our constitution  defines that the institution of the United States was to benefit , We, the people...to  provide for the common ,, yadda yadda 

Not,   We the people , in order for a king or state to exist,  have decided to enslave ourselves to that end. 

This excerpt actually branches out in many directions , suggesting one examine the purpose of ones life. But also that one might attract friends by simply being themselves, feed a nation by making ones living , and so forth.  

44 minutes ago, Mig said:

So what's the moral of this story in plain or colloquial English?

You might say I am opposed to this chapter , I don't think the presentation is consistent with some other stuff , and so I prefer to leave it for someone else to render , I wouldn't be kindly to it -as it stands. 

1 hour ago, Mig said:

would you work for nothing?

I certainly would and in fact do , I bust a hump at what ever I endeavor to do , whether it has any material payoff or not. 

But no , I wouldn't do this job for free unless it had some other value related to it. 

I just cant find a job where I can get paid for sippin whiskey in my underpants and watchin TV.  

Because I agreed to do work for money.

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

all you had to do was open the spoiler 

 

Didn't see that. 

I did an image search

They look Chinese. 

6 hours ago, Mig said:

And the reason why?

'Why ' What?

I told my boss this story once... He told me to get back to work.

Dude, the chopped quotes are kind of difficult to follow. But this was just some chatter , I figure heis happy with his faith but likes the FP stuff and can be at ease if he hangs around .Thats all it means. No biggie.

Taoist school is a breeze,

you just have to forget stuff  

Just now, Sulo Eno said:

Cute...

That's what you get for making me google "eschatological"

1 minute ago, Sulo Eno said:

I think you must know--at least intuitively--that your ideas are something I do not accept at least in a "big picture", eschatological way. In the short term, yes, I agree that sometimes "nice guys finish last". Thanks much.

That's fine , may you find your happy ending to be exactly as you would have it be.   

I'm not sure what you're getting at , but actions which don't work out well are not immoral necessarily, nor do morally approved decisions or actions yield positive result. And I am not one of the 'inaction' adherents, which is why I need to define thins as being IMO rather than what you may have been described- to expect. 

17 minutes ago, Sulo Eno said:

I don't quite see how that follows, but I suppose there are Taoist origin to Flying Phoenix Chi Kung. As such, I suppose the FAP habit is acceptable to Taoists from a moral standpoint...

Just messin , but yes,  IMO Taoism isn't a morality based system.

2 minutes ago, Sulo Eno said:

Flying Phoenix.

Ah, then I guess I should infer that the FAP habit is fine in FP , nevermind.

32 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

I was thinking recently about high school (secondary school). I remember being a certain way in high school. I really wanted to change but it was difficult because everyone there had history with me. When I graduated and went to college, and then the military, I was able to reinvent myself and let the baggage of the past go. I was able to do this in large part because the people I met had no history with me. They knew only that which I chose to present to them. This was liberty.

 

The unfortunate youths of today will never know this freedom. Thanks to the Internet and social media they are doomed to forever carry the past forward with them on public display. It's not possible for the new friends in college to not know about your school days since they can literally read about it online. This is the opposite of liberty.

 

I hope that more people awaken to this fact.

I'm not so sure its social media at fault, though I agree there is an issue needing fixin'.

It appears an issue as old as any of these here texts.