resonant111

does anyone here practice solo cultivation, ie: masturbation without ejaculation/climax? it's basically tantric sex/karezza without a partner, from what i have gathered. i'm interested in this because i need to find a middleground, i went through a "totally celibate, cultivate energy without having sexual thoughts" phase, but it was way too impractical and almost unnatural. I've gone back to normal masturbation (with climax) and that too, has been pretty unfulfilling. I can't stand the neurochemical hangover after orgasm so i was thinking masturbation without climax might be a good path to take up. You get the best of both worlds...sexual pleasure PLUS the vitalizing effects of retention. it sound good in theory, but has anyone tried it? i've heard you have to stay in th 50-80% arousal rate for this to work, so i'm going to try that to start and see how it goes...

i've been trying for the past year to completely eliminate "willful ejaculation" from my life. in my experience, there is no benefit to ejaculation whatsoever (besides a moment of fleeting pleasure) and i would much rather use the sexual potential energy in other endeavors. nonetheless, the porn habit of my past CONTINUALLY comes back to haunt me. i can go up to a month circulating the energy, but sometimes an overwhelming lust overtakes my being. the lust always comes back in the form of porn images i used to watch. i try to meditate, i try to "do something else" to forget about it, but the once the images start i can't stop them. the longer i try to "forget" about the images, the stronger they seem to become. it usually ends up with me "giving in" to the temptation and releasing my seed to some trashy porno flick. how can i overcome this obstacle? i feel so empty and depleted after watching this stuff...i always say "never, ever again!" but it always comes back. any advice?

There seems to be a lot of differing views on this. some people make retention the foundation of their practice, avoiding release altogether or trying to limit it as much as possible. Other people think it's important, but that it's ok to release at certain intervals. Others say it's not necessary at all, that one can release as much as they desire. How important is retention/sublimation in your own practice? I've varied between all of these, including the extremes of "never releasing" and "releasing as much as i want." I'm starting to think that moderation might be the most natural path (releasing 1-2x a week) but i'd like to hear what others think. This "retention" concept has so many different viewpoints, it's hard to figure out which practice is the most healthy. edit: i suppose whether or not one has a partner plays a factor in this as well. i currently do not, so retention feels almost like repression alot of times.

yea it seems like everyone who succeeds with retention has a partner to work with. if one is single, retention can be almost detrimental it seems, as there is no physical sexual outlet other than masturbation. being "celibate" is kind of unnatural in my own experience...

thanks observercenter. i'm not sure if i actually have POIS or if i've just psychologically created it by becoming too obsessed with ideas like retention and energy conservation. i've been putting less emphasis on those things and my post-orgasmic symptoms have improved quite a bit. I still generally don't enjoy the feeling after sexual acts though it's not as crushing as it was before.

thank you for your response taoiseasy, it's practical and makes perfect sense. the "visual stimulation" has always been a problem of mine and i'm going to try and do away with it for good. as for your story christian, i suppose you posted it because it symbolizes how man has taken a naturally beautiful creature out of it's natural habitat and has domesticated it through techniques of control, confinement and order. are you saying forced retention is like taking a horse out of it's natural habitat?

ahh, that's the catch. it's like my wishes are constantly changing. i'll take off down the path of "full out energetic and spiritual practice" but if i fail or don't feel enough progress i'll think "this is a waste of time, why not just be normal and healthy." Then it's like my worldview totally changes and my priorities shift once again. but at this point, i dunno. i'd say number 2 fits me best..."want to work with energetic practices, but not full out...still enjoy 'normal' life" if you will. i think spiritual practices are important, but sometimes they can just get in the way of living and enjoying life. I think "semen retention" is a prime example...there's so many conflicting views on it that it can just become confusing in the end. You just get lost in the theory and lose any potential magic from the practice.

thanks, that post is very eye opening. what i take from it is that it's more important to cultivate love/bliss within oneself rather than simply "retaining" a sexual substance for the sake of "not releasing it" or whatever. since "everything is consciousness" as you say, the inner and outer are already one...both are composed of the same living, vibratory essence if you will. The division between release/retaining is resolved as there really is no difference between the outside and inside anyway. at least that's one way of seeing it.

dude, stay away from that site and their "belief system" at all costs. i use opendns.com to literally block it from my computer as that group is nothing more than a fear and guilt based cult which will literally make your life a living hell if you take anything they say even relatively seriously whatsoever. if you're even remotely "guilty" about masturbation now, i'm telling you, that site will make it 100x worse! source: my own experience

ever notice that when you do something effortlessly you aren't really "thinking" about it at all? same with feelings of elation and ecstatic states of bliss...they just happen in the flow and if you're "thinking" they probably won't happen. i think way too much. sometimes i need to get out of my head and into a more direct experience of reality a bit more. the more i think, the more lost i get in my own head.

should one bother with retention practices if they don't have a partner? i've retained for periods of time before (2 weeks) but i felt repressed without having a natural sexual outlet or whatever.

yea it seems like tantric sex with retention would be a lot more natural than these "masturbation with retention techniques," which just make my energy feel all weird and pent up in my lower body.

thanks for the tips, i've intuitively felt that these "masturbation without ejaculation" practices are unnatural and kind of ridiculous to begin with. i know mantak chia promotes this and i know a person who literally swears by this technique and has a whole book about it. every time i try it though it just feels weird. if you masturbate without releasing you just build up all this hot energy and have all these horny thoughts all day afterwards. it just doesn't feel right, not sure why i keep coming back to it thinking "oh it might work" i think it's because i don't enjoy the feeling after ejaculation but at the same time i can't practice long-term semen retention without feeling weird either. theoretically this practice is a middleground between chronic ejaculatory masturbation and "celibate" style semen retention...but like both of those extremes, it just doesn't feel right. finding some sort of sexual path that works for me is the hardest part of my spiritual life. nothing i do seems to "feel right." i either become unnaturally sexually repressed or wildly over-indulgent with sexual pleasure. neither path works for me! *sigh*

thanks for the tips, i appreciate it

if one does have a negative entity, hungry ghost, whatever you might call it...how does one get rid of it? i have a particular sexual issue (porn addiction) that comes up time and time again in my life (against my will) and i'm thinking it might be due to some negative influence, perhaps subconscious... or maybe i'm just weak willed

Interesting, you seem to frame this as negative entity of sorts. i'm curious, what in my post made you think that something like this could be influencing me? you say i might be "ensared" by it, as if i'm not aware of its presence... for all i know you're right. i'm at a very chaotic period in my life with all sorts of struggles...occupational, interpersonal relationships, sexual, you name it. Everything in my life is chaos right now...my mind. emotions and life perspectives are all over the place and i can't seem to find any stability. it's just weird you were able to pick up on that vibe from a forum post...

this is really interesting, as i have been researching the connection between the prostate and "dry orgasms" the past few days. it's an area of male sexuality i've never even considered (until this point) because it's so taboo for "straight" guys or whatever. "prostate stimulation" is basically anal massage/stimulation from what i've gathered...that's pretty taboo territory for most hetero males. nonetheless it's really interesting. i'm tired of my main sexual practice being a quick spurt of pleasure, followed by irritability and boredom

hey, thanks alot for that link! i'm already getting alot of good information. the "tau" guy you speak of also seems to have a very healthy, open-minded view of sexuality and all that goes along with it. it's definitely a healthier approach than samael aun weor's crazy gnostic teachings

yea i've seen the talks you speak of. for someone supposedly "enlightened" he doesn't have an ounce of joy or even humanity in his mannerisms. it's really odd.

for sure. i just had to vent my frustration with weor's teachings. they initially seem plausible because they "seem" to synthesize alot of stuff from taoism, and other eastern religions...it's easy to overlook all the guilt, fear and elitism placed into his "teachings" because of all the benefits he promises. i feel sorry for people involved with it.

i'm bumping this thread for a simple warning: stay the f*** away from samael aun weor and his batshit crazy teachings. i believed that junk for the better part of a year and it almost ruined my life. his "transmutation" teachings seem liberating on first read, but they're completely cloaked in subtle shades of fear and death anxiety. his basic teaching is that if you ejaculate, just ONCE, you reverse your kundalini and fall into qlipoth or "the abyss,"...basically hell on earth. if you become totally chaste and transmute your energies you become enlightened. he calls it a "practical science" towards enlightenment, but it's really just a bunch of crazy beliefs that lead to even more guilt and suffering than one can imagine. it's a bunch of hogshit that keeps followers in a state of sexual fear and repression. the longer i went on believing that garbage, the more isolated and psychologically messed up i became over time. all i'm saying is that if you're even getting into SAW's teachings even slightly...get out. immediately. debunking samael aun weor edit: sorry if i sound bitter here...but honestly...samael aun weor is a straight up cult leader and i have to expose his blasphemy

i agree, i need to pay more attention to what my body wants rather than setting up some rigid set of rules or whatever. the thing that's annoying is that alot of times my "horniness" is forced. like i'll be bored and start thinking sexual thoughts or something. so it's not like i "need" to release at that time, but more like i'm just thinking about how good it feels so i end up doing it. somehow, some way i'm going to find balance and let go of the worry. i've been making such a big deal out of this, it's just ridiculous. lol.

This has been totally true in my experience. It seems to amplify not only positive emotions but negative as well. And i must confess...since i "gave up" on my retention a few days ago I've been "releasing" daily. As of yesterday it seemed fine but today i'm starting to feel legitimately dull, tired, and have a horrible, horrible headache right now. so i dunno. my mind is straight up divided on this, i can't figure out what to do. full out celibacy was driving me nuts, but going back to wanking is still draining me, despite dropping the guilt about it. what frequency do you guys "release" to maintain a good state of energy (and balance neurochemicals like dopamine, serotonin etc. as they too are involved in this process). i'm thinking once a week might be good for me. i've also been using porn again which is a real shame. i think it's making "release" more draining than it needs to be as well. god, i wish i could figure something out that worked for me...neither full out retention or wanking has really been successful, i gotta figure something out.

ok, i've decided i'm going to mb 1x a week from here on out. that way i get the best of both worlds...i can satisfy both my subconscious desires for "energy retention" and "release" at the same time. gonna spend a week "retaining energy" and release it on the weekend as a reward or something, totally guilt free. seems more balanced than the extremes of daily wanking or total celibacy.

i've definitely been at that point where i thought "i don't like the way i feel after i wank." many times. thing is, that feeling was motivated almost entirely by a VERY firm belief that it was a total waste and a loss. it was a feeling amplified by guilt, fear and disappointment more than anything. my "final try" i went two weeks without mb and was very, very diligent in curbing lustful thoughts, images etc. despite my best efforts, I didn't like the way my energy felt AT ALL by day 12. i felt repressed, like i had cut off my connection to sexuality altogether...it just felt really weird and unnatural, and was wreaking havoc on my emotions in general. if i had never read all this esoteric literature about transmuting semen there is NO way i would have ever taken up the practice as it totally goes against nature itself. in other words, my entire faith in this practice was founded on belief more than anything. if retention works for others that's cool. i'm just at the point where i need to let go of all this stuff and stop worrying so much. it's just where i'm at right now, i gotta let go.