Wayfarer

You could look to this place for inspiration. The Still Point centre originally created by Gia Fu Feng.

 

http://www.carolannwilson.info/stillpoint/index.html

Poems of Shinkichi Takahashi

Hi Exorcist - you have had great responses here already I hope the comments I have made in bold below add to them.

 

There are some issues , or predicaments that , by brooding on them , by solving them , our mind can be freed and be led to the so-called Enlightenment, ie, a Mind that can leave and return our body freely , a Mind that can detach from our daily consciousness and turn back to observe it freely ; as a master says: " Detachment is the Way".

("離即是道")

 

Here they are:

 

 

1) The somewhere and nowhere issue :

 

In the Diamond Sutra , one of the main Sutra that the Zen Buddhism relies on , you find the most famous saying : " Breed a great Mind by paying attention to nowhere " ; it sounds wonderful , but how ? I think the difficulty of it is whenever we try to do so , we already unconsciously put our mind at somewhere , let it entangled by something , making any trial doomed to failure .

 

This is true enough so perhaps we should not try to do anything then how can we become entangled? Someone may counter, well how can we then Breed a great Mind that pays attention to nowhere? We have that Mind already; it is our lack of knowing it that we pay attention to somewhere. Here or there is Mind when in fact there is no Mind.

 

2) The Non- dual issue:

 

The Chinese Zen's Sixth Patriarch once asked : " When you neither think of good nor evil, past nor future, outside nor inside... what status of a mind you are in ? " Which , of course, is a question tries to bring us to some kind spiritual breakthrough..

 

However, even capable of so doing and lengthening that interval, that rupture , there is still no guarantee that we not fall into a lengthened , unproductive dullness ; a persistent placid mind is nothing close to the Buddha Heart. Dullness or vitality, a persistant placid mind or not is Buddha-Heart - if there is only oneness and that oneness is Buddha-heart and therefore there is no-self what is other-than-self?

3) The situation and heart issue:

 

It is said that our heart is always entangled by our senses , anxiety and misfortunes in life that makes the emergence of a Buddha Heart impossible. In order to emancipate us from those obstables , people think of 3 possible ways:

 

~ We do our best to get rid of those external obstacles and problems so that they no longer exist to puzzle us. The external obstacles are not different than the internal peace we crave.

 

~ We strengthen our spirit so that even objective difficulties and hardships uneradicable , they do not hurt and obsctruct us so much . When we know what is spirit we know no difficulty or hardship - hence a Buddha ends suffering. What we think of as Sacred is not different than what we consider hardship.

 

~ We eliminate that mind which we think of as real, that mind we are so assured as having the sufferings, being entangled : if there is no mind at all , how can anxieties and sufferings attaching to it? If that illusory mind is nullified, and something much real and great arises, what perceptions and emotions still leave behind to puzzle us ? The mind we think of as real and the one that creates our ideas of suffering are the same holy mind. What creates our entanglement is when unawakened we live in a way that lacks awareness of our Buddha-Heart. The Buddha-Heart is everywhere - it is not different than Christ or Tao or the Great Spirit. There is nothing we can point to that is not Buddha-Heart for what points and what is pointed to are a single holiness. When we notice this in what we traditionally call within and around us our anxieties and suffering ceases because in realising there is only One, it forces us to realise nothing changes. The only constant is that nothing changes. Here lies our peace.

 

Of course, the final one is the Zen's way; It is said that foolish people always try to eliminate those factors and situations that are thought as causing their sufferings , only do the sages recognize that what should be eliminated are their pseudo minds.

Hello again folks.

 

Just some thoughts regarding the last few posts - these are based on my experiences and I'm not saying you should accept them as right, I am offering them in the spirit of sharing rather than "I'm telling you how it is"...

 

We, Descartes etc our thinking is way too complicated. Whether the self is evident or not is a simple thing and involves no logical or intellectual thought, hence it cannot be worked out in that sense, it has to be experienced (nothing you didn't already know). I have to 'think' to respond to you here but this does not mean that "pondering affairs is evidence of self" thinking occurs without self. How so?

 

Perhaps think of it as not a loss of self but more a gaining of Whole. Every object in our world and beyond shares a common trait; the wholeness of IT. This quality is overlooked by all those who are unenlightened, it is the ignorance and delusion that is the source of our suffering (in an all pervasive sense). What goes unnoticed is present everywhere, it doesn't appear different than anything you already see but the experience of noticing it is a little like staring at those funny pictures people went mad about in the 80's and 90's where if you stare at them long enough a different image suddenly appears from the jumbled mess and we have our 'aha' moment. People who can't see it swear you are making it up until they hear of other people who have experienced the same image then they start to believe.

 

The ancients (including Buddha) used to 'teach' it in a very simple manner by pointing at certain objects above and beyond others in the hope we might notice the common trait. They would discuss it in clear easy language but soon realised that such a simple practice was difficult to comprehend by our mind and hardly anyone could 'get it' therefore teachings became more and more complicated in a bid to occupy the conscious mind or to exasperate it (Koans). See Buddha's early teachings then compare to the Diamond Sutra for example.

 

The problem I have with it all is people who think they know want to sound like an ancient master and talk in riddles so they sound like the teacher in David Carradine's Kung Fu "Grasshopper..." Even if they are awakened this is not helpful. The Truth is so simple that when you notice it you can't help laughing at yourself or the world for being so ridiculous for making things way, way more complicated than they need to be. So, which do you prefer the complicated or the easy? If an enlightened person talks simply but you can't get it well that is to be expected but if someone talks in riddles just to sound great which is less helpful?

 

I won't dwell on this because I've mentioned it elsewhere but call it what you will Tao, Buddha-Nature or God it is the same thing, it is the ONLY thing that exists - we are not a part of it WE ARE IT, God/Tao is not something other than us. IT's expression is the same everywhere because everywhere is IT. Does it make sense then that it has a particular quality that can be noticed anywhere? Well that quality is one of being settled and is why the ancients directed us towards Stillness.

 

So finally, let's look at this back to front for a moment. You are Awakened. By some stroke of luck you have noticed this quality and see it everywhere you look. Consequently you know that IT is you, IT is all things that are not you - do you see how you might begin to view the world with effortless equanimity? When you notice IT everywhere are you then likely to be attracted to somethings over others, no. If the world no longer distracts you as it did can you see how your state of peace remains undisturbed? So what of experience? If I cut your hand off you would feel pain for sure but you are still IT and your severed hand is still IT - you feel the pain as your body is injured but your ITness has not altered. The 'you' you once believed existed is IT. Once this is known there are no distinctions; what was once viewed as large is IT, or small is IT, past is IT, future is IT, good is IT, bad is IT, peace is IT, non-peace is IT. IT, IT, IT. We do not have peace because we don't notice IT. Simple.

 

Look to the clouds on a blue sky day - notice IT. Look to pine trees on a calm day - notice IT. To me these are the clearest expression of God, of Buddha-Nature. Look to how you 'feel' around your stomach/solar plexus area when very still - notice IT (this feeling also occurs when you notice the Presence outside of you). Noticing is not in the head but in the heart, the torso - your body cannot ignore IT, it is what your heart cries out for - we've just got to get your head and heart together lol! Also when silent notice the wisdom of IT. This is the word of God or innate-nature. It is our sacred wisdom, what we were born with but has been present throughout time. This is our Knowing, our enlightened mind and once Awake our practice is for all our ways of doing to be actioned through this holy filter (our way of Being). Be still, be silent and observe - this is the heart of practice for all religions simply because they are trying to describe how to notice the same thing. The real beauty is that you don't need to Awaken to nourish and nurture your holy 'self' being tranquil makes it blossom and the more often you are serene the greater its presence becomes and the more likely you are to notice - but you still get the benefits of practice, nice huh?

 

Sorry to have gone on! Hope this helps.

 

Heath

Hi Informer,

 

Yep agreed. Awakening is the start of practice really as what has been noticed needs to be made part of the everyday which takes time to nurture and develop. I don't particularly agree with the Dhammakaya points as what we call pure mind and mind are not different - there is nothing to purify as such - so hence the dust and the mirror are not distinct from one another. And Krishnamurti, I've come across a little of this man's teachings and whatever he says seems to be the truth. How wonderful!

 

Thanks for the quotes.

 

Heath

 

It is semantics, but you might find something of interest.

 

 

 

Buddha only said "I AM AWAKE." and very humbly to the onslaught of wayfarers. (He was not claiming a label for himself to wear like a gold chain.)

 

There is not knowing if someone is enlightened, you can only believe. If they offer belief over truth, then you should decide which is more important to your path. Awakening has various meaning to various traditions, I consider one to be awaken once realization of third eye for instance. Some consider Nirvana awakening, which is also achieved from the same relative point of activation as third eye. This also coincides with the same point that is used in self inquiry and to realize true-self.

 

 

 

That was all in regards to awakening, so lets see what they say about Enlightenment.

 

 

 

There is a lot more after awakening . . . an infinite amount more.

Hi Guys,

 

Just some points:

 

1) I have heard a lot of people who say that if a person says they are enlightened then that means they are not - well Buddha said he was Awakened (as you know same thing) hence the name Buddha. So the person at the core of this religion thinks it's okay to admit to being enlightened.

 

2) When you experience enlightenment it is not something you work out intellectually but something you notice about the world you have always overlooked. If you are not Awake the world is different than how it appears to you - this is the ignorance and delusion Buddha spoke of and is why he explained the 4 Noble Truths as his first teaching because central to that teaching and all of his teachings (as they are in fact a single teaching) is RIGHT VIEW. You either have it or you don't. How did Buddha Awaken? He noticed something different about the planet Venus in the morning sky and then saw that 'presence' alight in all things because all things are a single thing.

 

3) There is no Karma, no cause and effect, nothing changes. Nothing is impermanent. Only our deluded mind thinks the world changes. This is how a Buddha steps off the wheel of Cause and Effect and ends Karma because such a person notices there is only ONE. There can't be both Oneness and Cause and Effect.

 

4) The word Emptiness is used because an Awakened person is 'empty' of distinctions. There is not a Void and a You, or a Universe you are part of. What you ARE is Buddha-Nature. Jesus saw Buddha-Nature in the sky while being baptised and called it God, Lao Tsu noticed it in trees and named it Tao, Moses saw it alight in a bush and called it Yahweh (or something like that), Mary Magdelene noticed Christ in the cave after the death of Jesus, Boddhidharma saw Christ in a cave after 9-years of practice and called it Zen and is why Soto Zen practitioners sit facing a wall - not to have their eyes closed in meditation but to notice something about the wall they are currently overlooking.

 

5) When you are enlightened you know neither enlightenment or you exist. For you to exist is to see you as other when this cannot be. There is only One, so what calls it the One? When there is only One there is in fact nothing. Empty of distinctions as to make something distinct more than one thing is required. When enlightened you know no enlightenment exists because this is also a distinction. All that happens is you notice the presence of True-Essence, God, Buddha-Nature, True-Self, Tao whatever name you give it, only one thing is being referred to. Whether enlightened or not, you are no different. What is sought after is everywhere you look.

 

The person who thinks of himself as Enlightened sounds to me like they are. I have experienced the same state of Oneness. This Truth is not true at all. What makes it True is the fact mankind is blind to what is within and without him and therefore is left making distinctions. It is found in silence and stillness (as what is holy colours everything with the same hue - that of being settled) - this is why we meditate and have silent contemplation. To Notice.

 

Hope this helps

 

Heath

Thanks to everyone responding.

 

 

 

This "absolute way of being", is it different for each person?

 

Sorry I hadn't seen this response. Is it different for each person? Well yes and no. On a practical, day-to-day relative level i.e. when we see the world through as Buddha would say, the eyes of ignorance then the absolute way of being is not different for each person...it cannot be as it is Absolute. This is why throughout history spiritual people such as Buddha, Jesus, Lao Tsu etc describe the same experience but using different ways.

 

On an Absolute level i.e. seeing the world with Right View what we call 'each person' does not exist. The me that types this is the sacred expressed as me, the you that asked is the sacred expressed as you. When you Awaken to the sacred that is all you see and therefore the distinctions we normally make are no longer made.

 

Ultimately, the Absolute is noticed as a settled presence which is common to all things. When we are still and silent we begin to notice it within and as Buddha, Moses, Kashyapa, Mary Magdalene, Jesus and so on discovered IT can be noticed around us. It is the same within and without as there is only IT.

 

Not sure this helps lol!

Does there exist an absolute moralcode that we must all follow, or is it up to each of us to decide what is right and what isn't?

Hi Movitz,

 

Central to Taoist practice is that the nameless thing we call Tao and our lack of awareness of it is why we cultivate. Through stillness and silence we begin to emulate the quality of this Suchness and therefore may realise our true nature. Is there an absolute moral code, no. Is there an absolute way of being, yes. When one notices the presence of Tao inside and outside the heart remains in its natural state, of not being disturbed. When this true feeling arises from noticing the true heart, true intention is born. No morals are needed.

Taoism talks about the nature of yin and yang a lot and describes the way the forces change and interact but I don't hear a lot of reference to what it is which harmonises them and unifies the forces, whereas in real Christian teachings there is the concept of the trinity, so there is three forces yin, yang and a reconciling force which unifies both together, without the trinity and third force how can there ever be a harmonisation?

 

Well if you think about it - if there is only oneness how can Yin and Yang exist? Yin is the nameless and Yang is the nameless - to notice either is to see with eyes of delusion. For the nameless to exist at all requires something other than it. We only think we are different and see difference because for most of us we don't notice the nameless - when realisation occurs talk of Yin and Yang is a distraction.

 

Also in Christianity (the stuff Jesus spoke of not what is generally discussed today) there was not the trinity, only oneness. He just happened to call it God, where as we call it Tao but essentially neither we, god or tao exist.

 

Hope that helps lol!

From my reading of various Daoist texts, I often read how "this is a path of Great Dao, there are many side paths, but they dont lead to authentic spiritual realisation" - paraphrased of course but im sure many of you have read similar stuff.

They also say the side paths can have quick "progress" and develop powers, but don't lead to proper liberation.

How can you know what's what?

 

So there are quite a few paths that have just one or a few methods & practices, which it's said thats all you need. Now this seems fine, but then you have the other neigong paths for example Master Wang Liping and Master John Chang which have succesive stages to the practice, and certain levels/attainments. So why make it so complicated if there are these other relatively simple methods which can get you to the same place?

Are the "simple" paths an example of side methods?

 

Im interested to hear what everyones views on this are.

 

A good question Ish. Here's my thoughts fwiw:

 

The path you take is of less importance than the direction in which you go. While there appear to be different paths and methods what you are 'travelling' towards remains the same and never alters. So, to me, there are two paths - one towards awakening and one following awakening...please see below for various quotes from different religions about the path towards awakening:

 

PATH TOWARDS AWAKENING:

 

St Bernard of Clairvaux (11th CE) - "What I know of the Divine Science and Holy Scriptures I learnt in woods and fields", "Believe one who knows: You will find something greater in woods than in books. Trees and stones will teach you that which you can never learn from masters."

 

St Anthony the Great (3rd CE) - "My book is the nature of created things and as often as I have a mind to read the words of God, they are at my hand."

 

St Augustine (Desert Father) (4th CE) "Some people, in order to discover God, read books. But there is a great book: the very appearance of created things. Look above you! Look below you! Note it. Read it."

 

Martin Luther (15th CE) "God writes the Gospel, not in the Bible alone, but also on trees, and in the flowers and clouds and stars."

 

Okay, all this may seem a little Godly but for a moment bear this in mind...Buddha awakened simply by sitting under a tree and noticing something different about the planet Venus he hadn't seen before. Kashyapa noticed the same thing in a flower, Boddhidharma in a cave wall, Moses alight in a bush, Jesus in the sky, Mary Magdalene in a cave, Lao Tsu in trees and mountains...all recognising something present in nature that the rest of us overlook. So how do we notice it?...

 

The thing we overlook is expressed in stillness as it is manifest in all things as a deeply settled quality. Trees, caves, flowers, clouds, stars and planets express it most clearly because they are inanimate. See what sages of the past have said:

 

 

The Pslams: "Be still and know God"

 

Stonehouse "Grow old on the stillness of Zen"

 

Tao Te Ching V16 "Returning to one's roots is known as stillness, this is what is known as returning to one's destiny"

 

Buddha to the Boddhisattvas (Sutra of Complete Enlightenment) "after awakening to pure Complete Enlightenment, bodhisattvas with pure enlightened minds engage in the cultivation of stillness"

 

The middle three precepts of Lord Lao's Statutes "Practice clarity and stillness"

 

Scripture of Clarity and Stillness "The human heart-mind is fond of stillness but desires meddle with it."

 

 

Okay I guess you get the point. The path to awakening is simply to be still and silent. When still you afford yourself the chance to notice the presence of true-essence of Tao and when silent you give yourself the chance to hear the wisdom of the One, what you were born with and will be after you die. There is no other practice to do and you don't need to think of stillness or silence, just be it. Then naturally Knowing will come of itself.

 

 

THE PATH FOLLOWING AWAKENING

 

Once you Know the practice is to nourish the settled quality of the True-heart so it becomes the root of what you say, do and act. The more you nurture it through silence and stillness the more it flowers and becomes you. Then from out of the shadows steps Buddha.

 

Before or after Awakening the practice is the same: silence and stillness. Silence is also at the root of noise, while stillness is at the core of movement. In observing nature one will notice. All the answers are right in front of you. Begin with trees and clouds and notice what is settled in your stomach. That's a good path to take!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Heath

I've been reading through the book secret of the golden flower and it talks about the immortal body. Can you please share what you know about this. The book doesn't exactly provide a down to earth description of it and I would like to know more. Thanks all in advance.........

 

When Taoists refer to the Immortal Body it means one of two things depending upon the context of how it is being said:

 

1) Your physical body: its natural lifespan is shortened by how we leak energy e.g by being anxious, stressed etc burns up the energy our body uses to keep it well and in health. So settling the mind, practising Qigong etc being mindful of how we take in, lose and use energy is a practice of immortality - or rather extending the life of the body to that which is expected.

 

2) Attaining the Tao: though nothing is attained this is the phrase that seems to be used to describe a person who has awakened (as in a Buddhist sense). In Buddhism, such a person 'steps from the wheel of cause and effect' and ends his or her Karma. How so? An awakened person has noticed the presence of what is holy within and around them. Knowing this thing that cannot be named is all that exists (as it is noticed and felt everywhere; as all things are it) means that essentially nothing changes. If nothing can ever be anything other than what is Sacred and does not change then Immortality is known. For instance, before you were born you were the Suchness we name Tao. During your life you are it and after you die you are it - nothing has changed other than the 'you' you see. Buddha spoke of our suffering occurring due to not having Right View. When you see 'you', you do not have Right View. So an Awakened person is Immortal not because their physical body will always remain as it is but that the Divine Presence that expressed as a deeply settled quality within and around us is noticed...it is this that does not change...and it is this that you truly are.

 

So you can talk about Yin and Yang but they are also IT. The symbol of Yin and Yang is trying to draw our attention to the fact that what is black and what is white are not different - we should look to the whole, the holy to notice where difference ends.

 

Our meditation helps to settle the energy. When this occurs (in Taoism: the Dragon and Tiger coming together) a different feeling is noticed in one's stomach area - the True-Heart Immortal Lu spoke of to Wang ChongYang. Its Stillness begins to flourish the more we notice it and nurture it (through stillness and silence). The same essence is alight in trees and clouds and stones, basically everything. When a person practices Qigong and Dao Yin they appear brighter because their energy is improved and their skin is nourished through this practice. If they are Awake, they will also seem deeply settled and untroubled. But the light that is discussed is a distraction...

 

Whether you glow or look like a pile of crap makes no difference. You cannot be anymore holy or unholy than you already are. There is only one thing - light, dark, beauty, ugly, good, bad, glowing, dull...all is it.

 

Heath

Thanks Chang, I appreciate that and you are right about feeling dull after eating too much - good points thanks!

 

 

What you say makes perfect sense. We also have to consider the fact that overeating dulls the energy and creates lethargy. We immediately notice the difference in our practice if we do it too soon after eating.

 

In our modern world food has become a source of pleasure with multitudes addicted to carbohydrates and sugars. With diet it becomes a case of the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

 

My own opinion is that moderation is the key.I have seen too many people in the world of Taoist Arts become obsessed with diet and make themselves weak and ill.I even new one man who decided he could exist on one apple per day. I have seen healthier looking corpses.

Hi folks,

 

I normally try to practise Qigong and/or Tai Chi on a daily basis. Last year I began a Qigong course and after increasing the amount of time I practised I suddenly noticed I wasn't as hungry and could get through the day by not eating much.

 

I believed that this was due to the following reasons:

 

1) Part of the reason we eat is to satisfy the body's need for energy and much of this was being provided for by Qigong and Tai Chi

 

2) Through meditation and generally slowing down, my metabolism was slower and therefore my need for energy was lessened.

 

Over the Xmas break I had less time to practise and soon noticed my getting hungry again and eating more, which has subsided since resuming normal practice.

 

This same question was asked by a fellow practitioner at a recent Taoist retreat and our teacher confirmed what I had been thinking - that this is a natural consequence of our practice yet one should still eat small amounts of nutritious food so the body gains what it needs.

 

The need not to eat seems to be mentioned in a number of ancient Taoist scriptures and how the body of a sage can appear as one of light and energy. As many of you have far more experience than I at such practices I wondered, out of interest, if you had any thoughts or experiences on this subject - for instance, what does this say about the body and our energy requirements?

 

Thanks,

 

Heath

Hi,

 

Here is a link to an excellent article about what is a modern sage - I think the person who wrote it must have a deep understanding too:

 

Link to Taoist Sage description

 

Some other quick points:

 

The 'Sage' is referred to as a person who has 'entered the Tao' or 'Awakened' rather than simply a person who follows the practice of the Tao and therefore sets himself/herself apart from others in the sense of wisdom and understanding.

 

Such a person is dispassionate due to the knowing that all things are one.

 

Such a person is compassionate as what arises from within is a natural response to what occurs before him or her - such an action is only of the moment and does not linger.

 

Being 'Good' or 'Bad' is not relevant to the Sage however I think that what is being referred to in the Tao Te Ching as a good or bad man in essence means 'awakened' or 'ignorant'. The I-Ching is the same and often mentions the Great Man (Sage).

 

Ultimately, if one were to replicate the actions and 'being' of a Sage one would be quiet and talk infrequently, one would not engage in arguments that cannot be proven one way or the other, one would be settled irrespective of what goes on around him or her, one would become quite withdrawn from the scurrying desires and company of man. One would not be interested in the world or in the views of others. To the outside world this person would seem aloof, disinterested, untroubled, uncaring, lacking motivation, not bothered - imagine being married to that person!

This has been a wonderful discussion! I have only come across the verse about the mountain in a song of the same name by Donovan didn't realise it was Zen or Taoism. Although I'm stating the obvious to everyone here and I apologise if this is sooooo simple it hacks people off - here is my view.

 

"First there is a mountain" - what we everyday folks see.

 

"Then there is no mountain" - an enlightened person sees a mountain-shaped expression of Suchness because they have awakened to how that appearance is manifest in the world - so to call it a mountain is to make it distinct from something 'else'. The mountain is still there but it is not a mountain

 

"Then there is." - in realising there is only one, the awakened person forgets even oneness and looks at what-we-call-the-mountain but sees no difference when compared to something not-a-mountain.

 

So yes, the mountain is not an illusion, it is very much there however it is has become a 'mountain' because we have chosen to make it distinct (which is the illusion). If human beings were not present on earth what would the mountain be called? An awakened person views it with how Foyan described "clear eyes"; they view it for what it is without name and meaning because they have experienced the Subtle and the Hidden - which is not hidden from view lol, nor is very subtle!!!

 

So, I am here, you are here, the mountain is here - but if we keep stopping in our lives and take the time to 'observe' - I swear on my life - that you will begin to notice a common trait in all objects. You will see me and notice that I have a quality that is also shared in the mountain, or a cloud etc. What Taoists and Zennists for centuries have been trying to tell us is "look to the stillness of things - this is the key to realising what is truly present".

 

TIP - if you pick a still day that has plenty of blue sky but with some clouds just look up and you may notice it. This ITNESS can be noticed on TV or in photographs so you don't have to wait for the right weather. If you notice a sudden 'turning' of the stomach, butterflies, or a sudden change around the solar plexus it is because the IT that is you has noticed the IT that is not you and your body has recognised what your head has forgotten!

 

 

No, I am not in ignorance. The mountain is real. It is your philosophy that is not real.

 

Sure, I realize that while in meditation there is no mountain. The poem above states exactly that. But when we return to reality from deep meditation the mountain is still there. It is we who have had the illusion that the mountain does not exist.

 

And I totally disagree that enlightenment is the realization that the mountain never existed. That is called being totally delusional.

 

If no mountain ever existed why do people continue to climb Mt Everest? That mountain truely does exist. And yes, you too exist else I would not be speaking to this above post of yours.

 

And I also think you have your time confused. There was a present before this present; we call this the past. If we are lucky there will be a present after this present; we call this the future. Time began at the moment of the big bang. Time is the movement of the univers and the objects therein. We humans have found a way to measure it that is useful to us. To the universe, this means nothing, of course.

 

You exist. You were born of your mother, you will age and then die. This means nothing to the universe. But I would think it does mean something to you and those who care about you.

 

And yes, I exist. And so does my chair. I am not an illusion. I am not totally sure about you though.

Hi Steve,

 

I just wanted to write something about 'being' from what I have noticed through observing nature as this is something I have been considering for some years and you may be able to shed some light on it for me too.

 

It seemed to me that everything in life had its place or use in the world yet mankind appeared to offer little if anything. I started to investigate the nature of exchange e.g. an insect goes to a flower and helps to pollinate it and through this action both benefit. I soon realised that there is no exchange, in simply being things that benefit from one another come together. The insect takes from the flower in order to survive and the flower attracts the insect in order to do the same. Here in lies the root of the natural order and thereby what is required is provided for by other things that have a need that is harmonious but where does man fit in?

 

Unlike other life on earth, man is trying to do more than what is required of his nature. He creates a world of materialism but is trapped by the need to earn money to maintain the world he has created. Other animals and plants do not go beyond what they know and because they are less distracted by the world of desire they remain settled and consequently 'do' less and 'be' more. I use the word 'do' to mean the actions of the ego that take us away from our natural stillness.

 

Man can simply be. If we return to simple needs of survival - food, shelter, companionship and so on without reaching for more we will need less. We will have more time to experience the luxury of having nothing to do, we will likely become self sufficient and grow our own food in an organic natural manner and in doing just that provide other life forms with what they need without 'reaching out' to give it them - they come when they find what they need to take (Wu Wei - a not doing?).

 

So the key for me is - fill your day with more silence, be tranquil and still, take time to watch what is going on around you in nature, slow down, slow your metabolism, eat less, consume less, need less money, work less = have more freedom and more time In these moments we become more attuned to what is Subtle (if you look you will see how plants and animals are). When we settle we afford ourselves the opportunity for communion with the Sacred Itness within and around us. As individuals, by following this path and just being, we also provide for other people without doing - as they take from us something they need from our settled presence.

 

The last two posts are excellent and also raise a question I ponder...

So the trees and animals have no trouble just being.

People seems to struggle to just "be" - whatever that means...

So what makes us different?

This tends to bring us to looking at the characteristics of human thought and how that may differ fundamentally from how other species think. Watts refers to the feedback loop effect of self-awareness as the difference and the source of problems.

So then the question is something like this (I struggle to verbalize it) - If we have the capacity of analytical thought, is it "natural" or "wu wei" to attempt to be like the animals that do not? Doesn't this represent trying to go against our nature rather than with it?

Certainly there is something to "just being" but it seems to me that there is an opportunity to also integrate our gift of thought into that. This is analogous to Twinner's recent thread on being "like a child" - we want to recapture child-like innocence, freshness, and spontaneity, but not give up our adult experience, wisdom, and insight...

 

So I tend to think that it is not so simple, this idea of wu wei.

But I do agree with the above posters when they point to the importance of awareness and openness to being.

That has to be a doorway to understanding our "nature" and then perhaps we can "not go against" that nature...

Hi Vmarco,

 

If you look at a heron you see it remains still even while flying. This 'stillness' we observe is not Stillness. It can in deed be noticed, this is afterall what Awakening means. Buddha noticed it in Venus, Kashyapa in the flower, Bodhidharma in a cave wall, Moses in the bush, Jesus in the sky - there is a presence that is also within us and it appears as a settled expression and is everywhere we could look; fast, slow, big, small, still, moving, angry, peaceful - all is the same.

 

Reference time: Zen master Dogen best expressed this for me while explaining the following to some monks:

 

"If you take some wood and set it alight then view the ashes as the future tense of the wood you misunderstand. Wood is Suchness perfectly expressed as wood, fire is Suchness perfectly expressed as fire and ashes is suchness perfectly expressed as ashes. Suchness, suchness, suchness - what is that changes?

Thanks ChiDragon,

 

I think you are right. Although I have practised Tai Chi for 20 years (not Chen) I have not been doing that type of exercise - it just goes to show how powerful some of these exercises are!

 

 

Have you been practicing the basic movements...??? The demo shown in the VID is an advance level. The "build up the energy for a sudden powerful release" is called "Fa Jin". A practitioner must have been practiced the basic for sometime in order to Fa Jin. If you haven't done so, maybe that is why your heat rate goes up to 180. If that was the case, it would be like that you were doing strenuous exercise without passing the basics.

Hi Buscon,

 

I found this to be an interesting question. I used to do a lot of exercise until I hurt my knee while being thrown in Aikido, until then I had done a lot of running with a heart rate monitor (until I could tell what my rate was from feel). I still exercise although I'm not as fit as a few years ago but still fitter than most guys my age.

 

As well as practising Qigong I'm learning Chen Style Tai Chi which as you may know involves movements that build up the energy for a sudden powerful release. I recently started adding these moves to my Qigong routine and while remaining relaxed (muscles) I did around 30 second sequences of energy build up before releasing however I can't do this for long as my heart rate zooms to what I guess is around 180 or so. If you want to take a look at the kind of thing I mean see the You Tube video of Chen Tai Chi below and watch from 3:00 to 3:30 - that will get the heart rate going! Long flowing moves to gather in the energy then a sudden release of power - a great feeling!

 

 

Heath

 

 

hi,

 

i've just bought a heart rate monitor for monitoring my fitness exercise - i think i was overtraining lately, i want to avoid that.

 

Now I got aware of different heart rate zones, for different kind of exercises.

 

What's the heart rate zone of a Qigong session ?

 

I'll tell you my heart rate during qigong when I've tried

 

Best

Hi Zalfel,

 

I have a couple of answers for you, see which one if either speaks to you.

 

Firstly, your fidgeting will likely be your Qi energy struggling to align and settle this often manifests as sudden twitching, spasms or shaking. It may also mean that the energy is not struggling but is starting to align itself in the way your cultivation has been working towards. The difference in movement of this energy may be causing certain parts of your body to feel loaded, anxious or charged. To get to the bottom of this you may just need to go to your teacher or find a teacher who can adjust your seated position to help things flow more fluidly.

 

Secondly, the fidgeting may come from a restless mind, I can't tell from your message. The mind should rest of its own accord in time - there is no need to fight or control it but just to keep sitting through it. If you find that all these distractions are too much try to be a little lighter with your practice or be more open to what happens. Your thinking that 'this should not be happening' is your ego 'commentating' on what is going on; your inner 'expert' saying "hey, this shouldn't be happening". When this occurs our practice becomes closed because we are making judgments and not letting our body or mind move naturally to the still point.

 

In truth, meditation has nothing to do with being sat on a cushion or focusing internally at a certain point. If you 'get it' you can meditate while driving a car or while out shopping - as you are probably aware the act of meditation is to help us settle down for when we do this we begin to align with our original nature the truth of what we are - this can be done anywhere, anyhow. To be in a constant state of meditation is to be aware of the sense of stillness in and around you. So, going for a walk in a forest, sitting in a garden quietly sipping tea, looking up and watching clouds drift by - all help as a meditation practice.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Best wishes,

 

Heath

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whenever I try to meditate I have trouble. I have looked at a ton of advice and find that some times I simply can not do anything but sit there and fidget. Are there certain conditions that you feel hinder meditation?

Namaste & Welcome Heath

 

 

Thanks folks - yes, it is a great site!!

This is a great debate about Wu Wei. I am new to this site and have really enjoyed the discussions here - thank you. Here is my view of Wu Wei through my own practice, for what it's worth.

 

As I was reading this thread I was thinking "to me, Wu Wei is about being rather than doing" then I saw the same comment from Cat. It seems to me that Wu Wei is being expressed all the time in nature. If you just sit and observe nature (sorry if you've read this in another response) you can sense the stillness of animals even when they are moving. To me although the Tao does not move there is in a sense an original movement because when you observe nature you notice that even while 'doing' animals and plants are essentially settled and still. The way things appear to us to change is gradual and slow to come to be - even things like earthquakes that appear to occur suddenly have slowly come to be. So, Wu Wei, means to my practice, to maintain action through the heart of stillness and to be in-step with the natural way of the world.

 

When this occurs there is definitely a sense of when and how to act because there is a greater awareness of the expression of the Creative, of the Sacred, it reminds me of the Buddhist concept of mindfulness - to be present in the moment of Buddha-Nature its expression and natural way of being. When we are tranquil and quiet our slowness begins to feel like a flow 'with' the natural way.

 

All things seem to be doing the same thing - other than man - when we stop doing we start noticing.

 

Heath

Just a quick response to the original question as Jamyang Dorje may be interested in this practice too.

 

If you are spending time around trees or a tree there is a great practice to help settle your Qi and to also become aware of the presence of the Sacred. By the way, in Buddhist tradition, Buddha became awakened by noticing something different about the Morning Star, Venus but it was the tree that helped still him enough to realise I think - so potentially all objects can helps us, earthly and heavenly!

 

Back to the trees: Trees especially evergreens have been used throughout history to help the unawakened realise the Truth because the presence of the Tao is expressed very clearly in trees. Look to their stillness, feel how it is expressed, become aware of how that feeling affects your own heart/stomach area because the holy You inside becomes aware of the holy You outside and you will begin to feel it. The feeling of stillness is present because the Tao is a settled Source. This is why religious people go to the desert, become hermits in mountains or anchorites in forests - because of their immense expression of stillness and their capability to settle us.

 

If you start naturally to slow down or be at ease around trees this is because your body is 'remembering' (something it hasn't forgotten) and you begin to fall in line with the pace of the Original Movement of the Tao. Only one thing is being expressed wherever you look - trees and clouds best express IT to the unaware then you will also notice IT at the heart of things we don't associate with stillness.

 

So may you have many a tranquil moment in the presence of the Stillness of trees!

 

Heath

 

 

 

As a nature loving tree hugger, I'm very drawn to Ping Heng Gong (tree chi kung) after hearing about it from a few folks from the Longmen Pai.

 

Any Tao Bums practice it that would be willing to share the basic details of the practice? I have a particularly juicy tree in mind that I would love to practice with. Help a brother out

Hi all,

 

These names such as 'Shen', 'Qi', 'Ming' etc are only here to help a teacher express to the student what is happening but in truth nothing is really happening and there is no separate Shen or non-Shen. For instance, heart is often used because around the solar plexus area and below is where we feel the presence of stillness when our practice has developed. This 'feeling' or 'awareness' can also be noticed in objects around you and when this is so what is felt in the 'heart' is also felt outside the body. The confusion of heart and mind comes from meaning Mind as in Emptiness, Tao, Buddha-Nature etc and not an intellectual thought process. So what is in the 'heart' is also in the 'head' and what is 'spirit' is also what is not 'spirit'.

 

So my point being: these different words are used for two reasons: to help a student feel that they are progressing and for someone who has 'Awakened' to try to explain what has happened. In truth, whether you Realise or not makes no difference, nothing about you changes other than knowing IT. So there is no need to get caught up in what is Shen or not because neither Shen or not-Shen exist lol!

 

All the best,

 

Heath

If you are prepared to invest that much time in your spiritual practice you may want to consider the following too:

 

1) Do any practice that helps you feel settled - meditating, having a quiet ten mins drinking a cup of tea, watching clouds go by in silence etc. When your energy becomes settled you begin to feel it sink from your chest to around your stomach and lower - here is when you afford yourself the chance to begin to notice a differnt internal presence. The danger of circle walking is that your energy remains high and does not settle - so if you continue walking be aware of this my friend.

 

2) Take time to observe the world around you so you may notice the presence of a common trait in all things: the appearance of IT in a cloud is no different than the expression of IT in a stone or a flower or a tree. The more time you watch nature (even animals) the greater your chance of noticing IT.

 

These two types of practice are all you need. Spirituality is not on levels, it's simply a case of 'awakening' to something you don't already notice and you are unlikely to do that until you slow down, stop 'doing' things and start to 'be'.

 

Best of luck,

 

Heath